ST LE plays as smooth as any Bally Williams for me..

For the most part, I agree.....only AC/DC gives me the enjoyment that the Bally/Williams titles do.

Sorry, but i don't have that feeling at all. STLE, clanky?

Sterns definitely feel different to me, I'm not sure "clanky" is the term. It's hard to describe. They almost feel more rigid, stiff, whereas the Williams/Bally pins have a bit more flex. Sterns feel like classical music to me and Williams/Bally feel like funk music. I wouldn't go as far to say that one or the other feels better to me anymore. I also think that the feel of Sterns has greatly improved over the years.

My ST LE is really fast. I have balls that I can barely pick up with my eye. My STTNG is very slow in comparison. Both great games but apples and oranges. It is a great thing in pinball to have variety and I tend to enjoy the faster pace games at the moment.

Couldn't agree more.

Had a rbion for 3 days. Couldn't wait to get it outta here. Just felt cheap compared to my Williams/Bally lineup. Like an odd little sister.

Have to agree with skypilot - I do also think the sterns have come along way but the bally/williams do always keep me coming back for a reason - they still have a unique solid feel to them. I have gone back and forth in my gameroom due to space - I will go heavy on stern and then back heavy again on bally/williams - I always seem to wind up back there after time though due to the feel of the games from build, dots, sound - the whole package. Again - this is coming from a guy who thinks AC/DC is one of the best games out there regardless of who made it. But I do agree - I tend to favor bally/williams in the long run

My collection is fairly evenly divided between Stern and B/W and I don't see any huge difference as far as smoothness is concerned. I find the pins you mention (TOM, TOTAN, SS) pretty easy/boring.

That said, I do play my STTNG more than my STLE…not because it's any smoother, but because it's a better game. STLE's much sexier to look at, but the gameplay and theme integration doesn't compete with STTNG.

+1. I also think B/W typically have more humor and are typically more fun/entertaining. Many Stern pins are butt kickers and focused on advanced rule sets for more serious players.

The new games are getting better and feel more like a good WPC95 Bally but I'm in the same boat and agree with shypilot too.

B/W got the immersion aspect right IMHO. For me that means it tends to suck me in. I can not put my finger on it exactly, but I attribute it to all the fine polished details that come together to make kinetic art.

In the current world of pinball, Lyman is the only person I see currently with that same eye for detail and art all in one. I would actually say METLE is one of the few Sterns (with new code) that does a really good job at the full immersion. A large part of that is the hand drawn art combined with well thought out coding from a player that is taking the time to think through the very fine details.

I also feel the tactile sensation with B/W is a SOLID built game. I have torn down a few B/W titles and rebuilt them from the ground up and they are engineered very well mechanically and infact are quite solid. I have only torn down 1 modern Stern thus far and modern Stern games have thinner parts, cheaper metal compositions, cut corners for cost savings, and in general the business has taken away from some of the art in motion aspect. Some of this is likely what kept them afloat in the 00s. Some if this is the nature of the world and manufacturing of everything which has gone towards cheaper rather than quality.

I am not bashing here as I like all games to some degree. Just MHO and experience when comparing the things that all together create the "feel" of a game.

The BW titles def have a slightly different feel , but to me the main difference is the theme integration and humor are far better than stern. The typically have more and better playfield toys and gimmicks . That said the sterns have much deeper rules and tend to hold my interest longer than the BW which get repetitive in a small collection. It's a tough call right now I'm all stern but the BW are the ones that give me that nostalgic feeling and def what I seek out at shows and friends homes .

There is no doubt that B/W games have a terrific "feel" that no one has been able to duplicate, I can't put my finger on exactly what the difference is, but I know it's there. Even WOZ doesn't quite feel the same, even though it's largely the same parts and it's certainly built as good or better than anything that B/W did.

I have a 50/50 split between B/W and newer Sterns. I can't put my finger on it but IMO the B/W pins just have something extra.

they have a certain "je ne sais quoi", no?

I can put a finger on it... nostalgia

Since cars always somehow get brought into the mix

In the old days we used to say, Chevy and ford doors close with a solid thud..the Chrysler with a chink.

same feel B/W to sterns for me

For me one of the best draws to B/W is the original themes. Nothing about them says "cookie cutter" to me, while Stern's...well they just do

I like some of the newer Stern's don't get me wrong but I LOVE the B/W themes/humor and build quality.

I'm already the over the nostalgia phase. Nostalgia for me was the game from my childhood, late 70's SS games. Missed out on the early/mid 90's pinball rebirth. So I never played any of the B/W 90's titles till a few years ago.

I have had pretty much every A listers Bally/Williams and find my collection starting to turn into all Stern almost. Not sure if it is because I have had and played the classics and done with them or overall it just seems more fun and interactive. I do miss AFM and MM but hard to justify two or three great Sterns for one classic.

B/W for not only the nostalgic factor and themes, but they are SO much more playable than new Sterns due to the flippers. B/W flippers are awesome. The control is so much better. It's no contest.

I use to agree with most everything said in this thread. I would never even touch a Stern. But in the last 3 years , I feel Stern has really stepped it up. STLE, AC/DC and MET have at least 90% of the feel and gameplay as the very best B/W's. It took Stern about 13 years but they are "almost" there. I think if they would just ditch the photoshop play field artwork (AC/DC) and do all the artwork like MET and ST, they would be just as good as B/W ever were.

I've been collecting since 2002. I'll soon be getting my 26th Bally Williams game from the 90s and my 15th modern Stern game. When they arrive my current collection will have 4 B/W games and 6 Sterns.

It's somewhat funny to me that the OP uses "rules" in the thread title. The main reason I have more Stern games than B/W games is because I prefer the rules on the Stern titles. For me rules "rule".

I've seen the "end" of almost all of the B/W games I've had, but the only two Sterns I've made it that far with are Monopoly and High Roller Casino.

No Fear reminds me a lot of Star Trek for some reason... Vengeance is the Skull and the Warp Ramp is the Jump Ramp. So when I'm playing ST I try to make comparisons to NF.

I know this is gonna sound nitpicky, but as an artist this stuff is important to me. What Stern needs to do is up their print quality. Look at the screened art on a Williams/Bally slingshot plastic, then look at the art on a Metallica slingshot. JJP gets this, even if they're kind of annoying about it (the recent clear coated vs decal crap).

Pinball has always been a commercial enterprise, but the modern Sterns just lack the same feeling of the old ones to me primarily because of the crappy Photoshopped art and poor print quality. It's just cheap and tacky feeling.

I'm really learning to appreciate Sterns because of the modern rules, they're typically deeper which is great for home use, you feel like you have more to do and so the fun lasts longer. And the powdercoating has gotten nice, I love the finish on my Star Trek Premium. But as objects to appreciate they don't really carry quite the same weight as the eras where hand drawn art was the standard, even for licensed movie properties.

Boom!

Yes! I was just thinking about this the other night. Trek's shots really reminded me of a game I liked, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. It finally dawned on me that it was No Fear. Lots of good similarities. Glad I'm not the only one that thought that.