Hassell- I've thought to myself and said on here more or less the same thing. Believe me, I take no pleasure in bashing pinball machines. In fact, I like to see the good in them. This IS a beautiful machine to look at. And unlike most people, I DO love theme as I am a huge WOZ fan. I happen to think that the game does the theme an injustice, not the other way around. For the things that it does have going for it (theme and beauty), it gives it all back ten-fold when the play just stinks. It's a shame. I had fun at first seeing things for the first time, but it loses it's luster quickly. It's all sizzle and no steak or all show and no go-- whatever you want to call it, it just is downright boring to play. So, you have nothing to apologize for. It's just the way that you (and I) feel about it.

You've presented a relatively informed and legitimate/valid opinion.

Prepare for a torrent of hatred and thumbs down.

I have no love for the game play either, but I like the theme. Beautiful game, though...

After waiting almost 3 years to get mine [ordered Feb. 22/11] I played the crap out of it for a week. Second week not too much. Then I got STLE. Hasn't been turned on since.
LOVE the artwork, cabinet detail and coating, display, and build quality of everything. But it's just not fun to play.

only way to really get a nice score going is to get "ball" lit and keep shooting to get your rollovers spelled for multiball. SO every game, it's the same takes at least one ball [sometimes two] to get all the rollovers ready for locks. THen shoot the crystal ball to stack something [hopefully not reversed flippers] and try to concentrate to get the house spinning. Sure there's a lot to keep track of, but it's the SAME THING over and over and over. Every game. Spell those stupid character names.

STLE/ACDC, etc has different ways to approach the game and how YOU want to play it. WoZ is very linear like roadshow [a game I despise].

Maybe I'm not playing it to its full potential but it's not fun - kind of a chore to play it. Been here a little over 3 weeks and music and callouts already getting old.

Not sure I'm ready to sell it yet, but there's a reason so many are being sold - not just by the flippers either. Maybe code will help. A deep game doesn't ALWAYS equal a fun game. TSPP and LOTR are great games IMHO, so maybe Keith can pull it off eventually.

Here's hoping.

This seems like a pointlessly trollish thread. Everyone likes different things. Even if someone who sold it says "yeah, I didn't like it" then so what? Is that supposed to somehow prove that all the other people who do like it are lying or wrong or something?

If you don't like it, then don't buy it, or don't play it. What's with this gotcha game?

I for one don't think I'd like it.

However my girlfriend would love this much more than any other machine.

Im saying this without having played it, and Im fairly sure I'm accurate as we like completely different games. People have different tastes, and the adrenaline you (and I) are looking for isn't there in WoZ it appears, but for others that's not even an issue.

I honestly don't know why we keep having these posts.. The answer is the same to them all, and everyone ends up bashing each other for their opinions.

WOZ plays a lot like TSPP but needs something like the TV modes to give a good sense of progress. Biggest problem now is there are no wizard modes... like several have said, it's go for the same stacks over and over. I expect it'll get a lot better once you have a few wizard modes to go for. TSPP shines when you're stacking the wiz modes for huge points. As it is now, getting Muchkin MB in a good stack is equiv to a wiz mode to me. You can get big scores quickly that way.

Supposedly a big update any day now... we'll see how it polishes the game up.

You don't like the game pure and simple. That's fine and nobody should be upset if you don't like it. There's people that don't like MM, TZ, ST, etc but that doesn't make those games bad. WOZ isn't a heavy flow game like ACDC and ST and that's intended. There's flow there but its also a shooters game like TZ. Personally I've had enough right ramp / left ramp games in the past 5 years and enjoy mixing things up with a deep shooters game like TZ or WOZ that have unique layouts not found in other machines.

I do agree with what Aurich said.

I don't plan on selling my WOZECLE. Its simply the best pinball machine I've ever played as well as a work of art in my opinion. Once you start stacking modes the game gets crazy in a good way. Its also very cool that every area on the playfield has its own unique rules and modes in some cases. I personally bought a WOZ because its the first game in over 10 years, maybe 20 (wide body it is), that is a loaded game with tons of toys, deep rules and that there's a lot of innovation in it.

Keith and Ted have been cranking out the code updates for the game and another will be out shortly. However, as of today the game doesn't have a wizard mode in it and without that you lose that progression feel in my opinion. That will change with hopefully the next update that may be out this week. Imagine LOTR and TSPP without wizard modes. Imagine ACDC without song jackpots or Encore mode. Pretty much every top 20 game has some type of wizard mode and wouldn't be there if without one. In my opinion its a deep ruleset with wizard modes (unique ones too) that keep you coming back time and time again.

Once WOZ has the Battle The Wicked Witch and Somewhere Over The Rainbow wizard modes are in it with the ability to collect diamonds and emeralds that progression feel will be in the game and in my opinion will make it feel complete.

JJP has two of the best pinball programmers of all time working on WOZ code. By the time all is said and done I think it will have the deepest ruleset in pinball.

You have seen WOZ games for sale, and you will continue to. Just like every new game. Starting out your post, explaining that you will get a lot of thumbs down by WOZ lovers in it self should grant you a thumbs down, before even reading the rest.

Lets say 50 people post their opinion on why they sold it. Whats the point? Now you will know you still do not want to buy a game you did not want?

We need less threads like this and more about the games you like.

So im confused. Does that mean you have one on order and are thinking about dumping out? If so, dump out. No big deal. That was a whole lot of words to say you don't like a game.

I had one if the for sale threads. It was simple. I had a preorder, I bought one locally in stock. One of the two had to go. I still own woz for now.

Does anybody know of a WOZ in Alabama or Georgia?
Does Jersey Jack have a list of where they are to play on location?
I would really like to find one and put some $$ in it!
Please help me get my pinball fix.

Cheers
PChop

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I feel the same way about Twilight Zone. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....

That's BS he can make a thread about whatever he wants. You read it didn't you? If you don't like a thread don't click on it, that simple!

Panzer, does jack pay you to defend every anti WOZ post? I think you spend more time defending posts than playing your game.

Lol! You got me.

Does Stern pay you to bash WOZ? Come on... I even said the game needs wizard modes and other things regarding its code to feel complete. I meant it when I said that the game needs it wizard modes to provide that progression feeling that many top games have.

Actually, I think Panzers post is very fitting.
WOZ is not the same style of game that ACDC or STLE and has lots going for it if you appreciate those things.
What's important to remember is that we don't all agree on which games are good/best, but that shouldn't mean we feel compelled to argue or criticize games that others enjoy.
While I didn't appreciate certain aspects of WOZ, I would definitely say that it's deserving of many "best in class" awards -if they gave out awards like that.
I'd love to see JJP thrive and create many more innovative pins with well-populated playfields, chock full of toys and LCDs.

What Panzer said......

The more you play it, the more you like it, it takes a while understanding the rules and nuances and different ways to play the pin.

Consider the fact that the rules have a long way to go. There will be so many things going on, strategies, etc...

Big code update coming and you can see how Metallica owners are feeling right now with incomplete code...

Yes and no. Mean spirited bashing is one thing. Expressing your opinion and giving reasons for it is another. If you can't do that on the most popular pin forum on the net, where can you?

WOZ code needs a lot of polishing. It just makes me nervous how slow the process has been. I've said it before, WOZ could have really benefitted from a side ramp that would have given more purpose to the upper right flipper.

Absolutely. Continued code improvements will enhance game play. No doubt. However, how do you improve shots and general game play which just doesn't do it (for me)? It's really hard to put a finger on it. I mean I really enjoy TZ that everyone compares WOZ to. So, I just don't know. Chalk it up as an intangible, I guess.

I could while away the hours....consortin with the flowers...conferrin with the rain...

I guess you don't, different strokes for different folks. Some people like nothing but fan layouts. I don't get it. But hey, I like a lot of different styles, probably why I really like Woz.

JJP brought a lot of this grief on themselves by promising the greatest thing since sliced bread and producing an average playing game at best. If it wasn't for all the pompous chest thumping and meaningless promises, the bar would not have been set so high and the criticism would be a lot less.

I played 20 games or so at the recent SPF in Florida with the latest software. It was fun, but it is just not the end all be all that was promised. The flying monkey is not even as cool as the motorcycle in Banzai Run (24 years ago) which they copied. The mind blowing interactive topper that was promised is simply an etched LED panel no cooler than any $125 aftermarket topper on any Stern or WMS game. There are tons of stand up targets (oh boy, again like BR) that don't even have inserts in front of them. The cheap plastic dome over the witch completely ruins that toy. There is not a single fun interactive toy unless you count the door on the upper playfield. The spinning house is cool the first time, but possibly the worst upper playfield ever. The LCD monitor is not used even close to its potential. The split screen just does not do it for me and the graphics are PS2 at best. Everyone has big LCD monitors, PS3/4, Blu Ray, etc in their homes, so it is tough to impress people at this point. There is simply nothing impressive at all on the LCD in WoZ. Novelty yes, impressive no.

Other boutique manufacturers could could get away with a game like WoZ and not take such a beating, because they did not promise the sun. Like I said, it is fun to play and appeals to a lot of fringe pinball players (women and children along will people attracted by the LCD). It's just not for me and it definitely did not live up to the hype no matter how you slice it or how much better the software gets.

Sounds personal, you don't own it and you've only put 20 games on it. Your opinion is in the vast minority, but everyone is different.

It's just a pinball machine, no need to work yourself up about it.

Let's face it.. you can put every cool bell and whistle into a game, have it be positively beautiful and still fall short in the fun department. I give JJP credit for actually innovating and taking some risks. Totally agree the gameplay isn't on par with other A-list pins, but it's respectable. I don't get holding them culpable for being fired up about the project. If you're not passionate about what you're working on, you should be looking for something else IMO.

WOZ is not linear like RS.
Sure you go for the stacking in WOZ. There are four lucrative scoring opportunities - Crystal ball, Emerald City MB, Rescue MB, and Munchkin modes/Munchkin MB. This leads to many different stacks - Crystal ball/ECMB, ECMB/Munchkin, Munchkin/Crystal Ball, Crystal ball/ECMB/Munchkin/Rescue, Rescue/Munchkin/ECMB, Rescue/Munchkin/Crystal Ball, etc.
Haunted scoring adds some points as well.

So, yes the player is building the same stacks again and again, but this is done in many games. Fortunately, the rules in WOZ are not rehashed. And there are many different stacks to go for. You decide which to go for. The stacking makes for strategic play.
As has been said in this thread, once the larger goals are part of the code, then the play may become more satisfying to some. Getting to battle the witch will provide an achievable goal for most, while somewhere over the rainbow looks to be very difficult to start.

The thing that is potentially interesting about this thread is you could have opinions from the least biased folks possible about their opinions of the game. People that bought the machine with (surely) hopes of loving it, who then found it to be unworthy in some respects. The other two groups, owners/waiting owners or never owners have an undeniable bias factor (on average). Unfortunately, the unsolicited opinions of the other groups will obliterate the intended direction of this thread.

You don't find many of those folks, surely there have been bumps in the road, small and big, but it's a fun pin, and will only get better as the code develops.

The funny thing about pinball these days is that it seems there is always a faction of people that no matter what, simply can't stand the fact that people love and enjoy their pins and then want to dump all over the ones they aren't involved in and don't own themselves. It's not really just an "opinion" when it goes on and on in every single thread.

Now we have PPS and a raft of BS starting up there from the people that aren't involved in it and are against it for their own personal agendas or because they simply don't like someone else's success. Who knows?

So they all get dumped on, its what people do here, and yes, it goes way beyond "opinion".

That's me, fun game but not great by any means. I got rid of mine more so cause I didn't like JJPs recent practices of the new version and the continued delays in getting the game out. I have quite a few I can play anytime still so I am excited to see it progress but just didn't think it did enough for me to keep in my game room and the "politics" were enough for me to just want it gone.

You can put a lot of bling on something but it it still sucks.

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What is that? Your blinged out butt plug!

As the code stands now it is BAD for the NOVICES; The rules are very poorly implemented in the game it is extremely hard to figure out what is going on it. Yes I played one with the most recent code update

lol. I wish Stern updated their games as fast as WOZ. Now if you said it made you nervous how slow they were shipping...

didn't like the game from day one, i mean the theme.
i don't care how many toys, how many code updates, i just can't stand the Kindergarten theme.
saw the game.... snnnnnnnoooooze fest and walked away. it's well built, no doubt about that, it's just not for me.

''the journey is the reward...

I love the theme a lot, one of my favorite movies of all time, and I was on the list for a regular, found out too late the LEs were sold out.

But I played a game in San Diego and played again and again and just didn't like playing it. I liked the way it looked and the color and whatnot but not the gameplay for me. It was right next to TSPP and IJ4 and I just went back and around between the three machines and I just had more fun on IJ4. Not saying I want to own IJ4 or anything, but it got me to thinking I could probably get a very nice IJ4 for half what I was going to spend on the regular WoZ. So I got my deposit back.

I am sure it's great in it's way and like people love TSPP as well (I didn't get that pin at all either). Reminds me somewhat of TZ but not near as much credibility (to me) in the gameplay department.

Now to be fair, I didn't follow the rules or know what was going on, I don't like upper playfields and this has TWO of them, two of something I don't like doesn't make me want it more.

I am sure it's probably great, will have great code but just didn't lite my fire.

No you haven't. And it's more exciting than some dumb old shaker motor.

LTG : )

I am a pretty early WOZ adopter, and I've had mine for just a little over a month now. Been a big supporter of JJP from the day I sent in my first $250, and liked the vast majority of what I saw as the game developed. However, one thing that was always in the back of my mind, was what if in spite of all the cool things WOZ is going to have on it, I don't like the gameplay It's happened before to me, AFM, GNR, TSPP, and TZ were all games that I sought out, thought I would really enjoy owning, but didn't like the play and moved them on quickly. My experience with TZ was particularly concerning, as it's layout was thought to be the most similar to WOZ.

Well, after having WOZ for 1 month, I can truly say that in 25 years of collecting pinballs, I have never enjoyed a new game more that this one, it is an amazing pinball experience, the variety of ways to play and the different types of shots that it makes you try are simply awesome. I'm finding it difficult to get any work done on my other games because I just keep pushing the start button on WOZ, trying to put together that 1 great game. All this, with code that is not near finished, and still requires a lot of polishing, when it is finished it will truly be epic.

This game is different, some people embrace that, others are put off by it, luckily there are a ton of more conventional playing games out there to keep everyone happy. It still baffles me completely how anyone who calls themselves a fan of pinball cannot see what an amazing achievement WOZ is, but gameplay is the most subjective thing, and you really can't argue about an opinion.

For me, WOZ is simply a game changer in the hobby I love, and I can't wait to see where we go from here!!

Kind of like you did in the early days of AC/DC .

and the WOZ haters are out in full force!

+1

It didn't even necessarily have to be a ramp, just some kind of significant shot. As it stands, the upper right flipper is virtually pointless. This is my biggest gripe with an otherwise solid game.

I don't think the rules are that hard to figure out. The game has animated rule screens that assist with telling you what to do. The rules are a lot easier to figure out then on a DMD game in my opinion.

There are too many "shoot all lit shots" games out there and that can make other games, like WOZ, seem more difficult. Those games are fine but sometimes it nice to play a game with a quest based ruleset with a variety of unique rules spread throughout the playfield. I'm tired of "shoot all lit shots" mission games where you work towards "shoot all lit shots" multiballs and "shoot all lit shots" wizard modes. That's where a Keith Johnson games like WOZ, LOTR and TSPP come into play.

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Check my rankings and tell me I hate it. I have a nice mat for you to buy.

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And now I own it, funny how that works doesn't it Jimmy...... What's your excuse? Never mind, I know the answer.....the "dirty dozen" rides again.....maybe you should go on over and piss on Rick and the PPS thread some more.....

Just got mine and I'm still figuring things out. I will post my overall opinion of the game after a few weeks. So far there are good things and a few bad things. I'm enjoying the hell out of the game. It's really fun learning the rules and seeing and hearing things for the first time. I like the upper play fields. I thought I wouldn't but they are a lot harder than I thought they would be. Actually the game is harder than I thought it would be, and thats a good thing.

However there are so many little things in the code that just don't seem right. The music in multiball just steps all over any other sounds in the game. You can barely hear the voices of the characters when you hit switches. If you have more than one mode going on at the same time it just seems like a mess of noise all thrown in together in a blender. There are a few other things I don't like but I'll save them for my full review. All this considered I am still having fun playing the game. Really to me thats all that matters.

Also, why isn't the code finished? The game has been in production since April?

Good question, maybe its the same guys doing the code for Metallica!

Because it's taking longer than 8 months to write, assemble, debug, and probably a few things I'm leaving out.

LTG : )

But the code would have been started long before the games started production right?