Maybe this thread helps, maybe it doesn't. The latest Alien I've played in the wild is an amazing game. Everything I'd hoped for my grail theme.

As happy as I am for the new owners and the machine itself, I'm as equally unhappy with the posts regarding refund requests that have gone unaddressed. The purpose of this thread is to find out who is owed a refund, how much, and how long have you been waiting beyond broken promises. I'm not expecting complete truth here, but at least it can provide either the immensity, or the minority of cash on the table.

Games are being made and they are going out. If a refund has been given from whatever means (chargeback, paypal dispute, etc.) then you are not owed any money, but entitled to be forever ill w the company in regards to how your situation was handled.

I will be happy to pass on results found here on to Heighway, as this refund mess has to end. Not addressing poor customer service stories here....this is about money, pure and simple.

So the question: WHO IS OWED MONEY, AND HOW MUCH? PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR LEVEL OF COMMUNICATION W THE FACTORY. Be mad, but also be honest about the cash. I'm asking out of sincerity for fellow pinsiders....if there is 10k or 100k (hard to believe) I just want to see it here, so it can be gauged, put a time metric on it (starting today) and we can update as refunds are issued. I'll be happy to create a list here, for all to see.

This has to end for them to progress. Time for all to lay the truth card on the table, in order for us to understand the scope and (potentially) help. Thanks...mark

Thank you for contributing. Respect your position, and now 1st on my communication list.

Just added toads $1500 deposit to this list

No, just Morgan and Dan at this point. I DO have a long standing deposit on an LE, and made it clear that I would pay the balance in full immediately when my machine was ready to ship. Also told them ( repeatedly) that I was concerned that fellow pinsiders were still owed refunds and was very concerned about it.

Thinking they definitely will want all of the balances at some point when the games get built, that can be leveraged in a civil manner, at least on my end. i.e.- " anxious for my game as many are, but cant take delivery in good faith until I know x has been cleared, as they are fellow pinsiders and wouldn't feel right about it".

A viable approach, and if the monies owed are not astronomical, believe it would work " wash" in business sense.

Ive waited a long time and will continue, so I have one card to play....want the machine badly, and have $$$ to give them.

Noted, thanks

So have you asked for the deposit refunded, or waiting ( like me)? Just trying to get a #$$$

I've counted $14800 so far, w another possible $1500 to add as of now....

Will update as the posts show, when I can

Im doing a thumbs up to everyone that is responding w info I can use. I know its sort of meaningless, but I do appreciate the truth on this. It will certainly give me a more realistic # as to what we are dealing with here.

If its not posted here, then it cant be considered. Legitimately want to see the total, and see how it is dealt with on their end.

To inherit any debt load and a non functioning company can take time to sort. Im hanging on, believing its ever so slowly turning right.

You are spot on, and thanks for the support!!!!! I want to call an actual # to this mess and approach that way. Hurt feelings don't count, ill will or agendas don't count, fan boys or haters don't count. Only TRUE ACTUAL $$$ with timeline and effort of engagement are relative.

Hell, my $6k or whatever, gets me a game and makes someone else whole. I know it's technically "robbing Peter to pay Paul" but in this case, both would win...I'd have a game, someone else gets there money, and Heighway keeps whatever margins to get the wheels running better.

Suspect they are doing a version of this, I'm just trying to identify the actual cash...nothing else.

noted, and wouldn't be so sure about the 60 days being too far off if games are being built.

As a help for me, could you convert to US $$$ easier for me to put a # up every so often.

Thanks for the input!!!!!

Yep...think it will help if someone verifies my math....looking at $20,100. So far

Im hoping to delete as well, as we progress

Thanks Toads...I added your $1500.00 in at post #7 above.

I want my Alien, but I really am supporting everyone here just as much.

Thanks billycrna.....added to the list and my running total. If there's any trend I'm seeing....it seems early adopters (old money) that want a refund are in the $1500.00 group (except hank) so far. Timelines on the bigger chunks seem to be on shorter leashes.

Regardless, we're at $23.4k now. If I owed $6k on my LE, then building/ delivering 4 games, using the "Peter/ Paul" approach makes 8 people whole. A very reasonable #, I believe. Suspect the # will rise, but this should not be insurmountable, imho. The game rocks....lust get some more machines out there, and make these guys whole....

Dammit Mike..... ....at least I didn't change the # yet, $24.9k

Think I'm going to generate a real basic spreadsheet at the office on monday, and forward with my e-mails to Morgan:

Pinsider name.................Amount owed.............Date requested

This should eliminate this piece of the "confusion" on their part.

Even if the #$ doubles, it would only take 10 machines to end this. Lets hope they are busy doing just that.......news of another container coming stateside will go a long way, imho.

I'm very grateful the machine is as good as it is, otherwise, a different tale, for sure.....

I can add the names if you'd like.....you'll note the total nut is changing as posts are received (when I see them). If we can shelve the anger, and keep this about the cash, I believe we will see the curve go up as people report...level off...then hopefully diminish.

I could add the names, then mark "fulfilled" when they report they get their refund (remember, this is just about cash). I'd be happy to do it.

Been waiting/ wanting this game as long as anyone here, I suspect. It only seems right that I try to help in getting those t.hat want out their $$$ back.

If they make their Christmas promise to me, and state the game is ready to ship, I'll definitely take it, but will expect this refund # to be much lower, or gone, by then.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, provided they build, work the bugs out of the games, and get them out. Sincerely believe this is their intent, or why would they have shipped anything, period? One right doesn't offset one wrong, sadly, but can say with complete honesty, after playing the machine, this is going to be one to have. Let's hope this can help facilitate the process (someone over there HAS to be watching Pinside, if only on occasion).

May sound weird, but I REALLY believe they are just unraveling this mess, and 100% committed to building games, nothing else. I think the bookkeeping that was inherited could have been an absolute nightmare. I'm not naive, and run a successful business that deals w far larger #'s than this, and can say first hand that if internal communication and resources are not square, things can take 10x longer than usual.

This is the precise reason I'm starting this thread. I'm very convinced there is massive confusion, pressure, and expectations....they have refunded in FULL some, and totally ignored others (apparently). This looks much more like disorganization within a newly formed company (that is what it is), than not being funded to make things happen quickly or efficiently at the moment.

Suspect, the beancounter that is going through this will state "ok, we've positively identified (x) person is owed money, and it gets paid. Can also envision this same person stating " no one spends money on a pencil , until I sort some of this shit out". No one can afford to just take peoples word on refund requests...they are going to need to sort it out to be certain.

They can be very legitimate, but if they are, they will also be very, very careful in over-committing, throwing $$$ around on verbals, etc. Prudence and due diligence takes time.

I am NOT defending them, but they inherited quite a mess, unfortunately, and must tread lightly moving forward...but they ARE moving forward, thankfully.

This list will give them one more piece of the puzzle (if everyone honest), and hopefully help them get sorted........

Yep....lots and lots to get aligned...I'm grateful they are trying.....want the damn game

I had the good (or bad) fortune of playing Kneissl's a couple weeks ago.....must have this one!!!!

Agreed w all your points....I think some of us "old money" never made it into "new" land, obviously, and am still not convinced they even know what is completely owed. Morgan certainly doesn't write the checks (idk who does), but maybe they stated...."x per month in refunds, x for overhead, x for production, etc.". Only explanation as to why some got the refunds so random, and some didn't.

Hell, even $100k isn't that big of a #, and doubt there's that much out there......

Giving them the break, as the machine is not the problem, it's the business side. They'll sell a shitpile of these things...just make the games, money rolls, problems over, healing begins.

I just want to put a # in their face when I speak w them.

Big Time!!!!!! I'm also getting some very promising pm activity, which I must keep offline for now....all signs looking very positive!!!!

Oh, they hear you...given the influx in games going out, and short time that you requested, suspect this one will be quick. With due respect, many bail on preorders when ready to ship.
Its the old money that has to be washed with new, and much harder to verify, process. Your # has been added nonetheless . Given what has been revealed just this past 2 days, I officially have zero worry of getting mine, and them cleaning the old mess in short order.
They are going to sell many of these machines .....

Added...thanks for helping

Can't add your's unless you didn't get your $$$ back... it's between your CC company and Heighway now (unless I'm misreading)...banks know how to get money, for sure....

Ouch!!! added to the list....hoping this is all over soon

( Is this what LE's cost now?)...yikes

Still less than MSRP on (5x) LE's.....surely the end is near.......

Based on @CheapTrick33's report, I restate the obvious.....these LE's will have to be shown, built, and shipped in short order to avoid more refund requests.....the coffers have to be filling, given the amount of Standards out the door...surely they can cut this # at least in half immediately, and get some LEs to early adopters by Christmas...

They are making games and building bank in their short, 6 month or so ownership. Time to drive a nail in some of this old stuff...

We can hope they still have margin...they must have a plan, or no reason to build game 1...which btw is far, far more than some of the other " basement" projects compared to.

We dont have to like it, but another company was rumored to shut down many, many times, tough inital game rollouts, etc. We see how that is turning out. Landmark machines...hoping for the same here...

NOT sticking up for them....just stating the obvious

There have been substantially more than that which have been paid for and delivered...

Truly not being a jerk at all, but I respect information that is shared confidentially via pm or other means. Believe we all do. Choose to believe it or not, but I NEVER share anything publicly, if a person asks not to. Period.

Im only bringing this up in an attempt to convey that these games are going out, LE's are going to ship...all very soon.

Truly believe the refunds are going to be sorted, and I, too, want a solid confirmation of such before I receive my LE ( hence the reasoning behind this thread).

Ummm...NOBODY!!!

Almost derailed my own thread...WHO IS OWED $$$, HOW MUCH/ WHEN DID YOU ASK FOR IT? THATS ALL THIS THREAD IS FOR

Trying to help everyone that is owed $$$ have a reference on how things are moving...thats it

Only gotta go back a few years....difference is we cant circle the parking lots across the pond

Far from criminal, and for $40k...let's hallucinate...$80k? They've had the reigns for 5 months? Waiting does suck, btw......I played one....it will be worth the wait for me....

Nothing wrong with the intent of the thread....some sad, but useful info, that will hopefully help those wanting refunds get them....

I was told Christmas delivery target, but no exact date. Suspect I will ride to the end, either way.....highly suspect the 3 LE's w armor choices will be revealed very, very shortly, then reachouts to customers will begin for their choice of build.

Authorized airfreight direct on mine, as I want minimal handling......when they reach out, I promise i'll share this outstanding refund # w names and dates, as it will give them incentive and exact knowledge on who is waiting on what.

Dealing w thanksgiving now, but will contact again Monday.....requesting everyone be honest, and if you've gotten a refund ( from the pinsiders who posted above) by Monday, pleasr lmk..thanks

Aurich is a great guy..from where I sat through most of this..he received the most grief/ personal attacks, etc. from people (person) way outside of Heighway (none of which he deserved, btw.)

Took alot of shit and could only divert so long.......

Suspect healing will occur in Alien Land, and look forward to his take on the final product...mark

Yep....over 3 years for me, as an early adopter only.........I'm more hopeful than ever that this journey is almost over..too lazy and uninspired to change my Avatar anyway.... .....weary of this, for sure...

Side note - how long did it take JJP to go from the earliest preorder $$$ to shipping the first bug plagued WOZ? I only ask as they have obviously turned it around in a nice way.....would like to have that model to compare to. I got an early ECLE, but not one of the preorders...paid a premium for mine...

Was the wait on this magnitude? Better/ worse? Can absolutely say there were a solid 6 months of work on the game after the first batches went out before the problems (big ones) were solved. To their credit, customer service was stellar (still is). Just curious about the timeline comparison, if anyone hear knows....

And was yours one of the 5v systems? Thanks for the info!!!! Great barometer...

Correct, and also what i believe caused a good chunk of the cash dump. I personally thought (and posted in the Alien thread a long time back) Andrew had grossly underestimated the actual cost of bringing a licensed, grail theme such as this to fruition.....much different (and more expensive) than his previous 2 efforts.

They had a contract for Bacardi, and pretty generic. Full Throttle was unlicensed, and suspect cost from concept to production was exponentially lower than a huge, licence theme such as Alien.

Even though they had made 2 previous machines, they certainly weren't mature enough as a company to deal with what happened. We were very fortunate that there were (are) people of caliber that recognized the potential, and have stayed the course, along with investing unknown amounts of capital to get these built.

The game itself is truly amazing, and they are finally starting to get them out (in larger #'s than what might be thought here). Quite sure there is a model in place to right the ship...we just may not like, or agree with it.

To explain my "side note" question - I'm quite convinced that JJP lost their ass on early WOZ, but did everything they could to get it right, pissed alot of people off, but knew they had a winner. This proved to be the correct move (as far as we know). There are parallels here.....things could be better, but could also be alot worse...

Back on topic.....any more $$$?

Ha...good to see you back at me again....I'm no boyscout, and simply putting a $$$ to the Pinsiders wanting refunds...Ask CT? You're comments are much more naive than originally thought. I'd call Melissa or Chris anytime I like, but that's none of my business. I know them quite well. The "six figure players"? who the f**k are they? I'm sure we'd all like to know.

So is it the poor lighting, badly engineered flipper, or the insurmountable amount of cash that dooms them? What is your actual agenda in regard to your information provided to us? I'm quite tired of you attempting to "school" me (all of us, actually).

Certainly wasn't your "big mystery" of a game you can't even admit to ever playing. This thread was started to put an actual $$$ tied to Pinsiders who were still out cash...that's it . I'll be happy to give the list to Morgan and Dan (some of it has already made it to their FB page). Simply being a positive voice for the Pinsiders that are owed $$$, or still want the game. "Positive voice" look it up sometime....

If you are owed $$$ post it here. Otherwise, your input has zero value here, happy holidays.......

A good faith measure, my friend....I truly want my LE, but truly want to see those Pinsiders that are owed $$ made whole at the same time, as it would be the right thing for them to do. Simply offering another avenue of communication , pure and simple.

If one refund gets processed due to my efforts, then I've been successful. Bringing light never hurts......I've had several reach out and thank me for at least taking this approach....what could it hurt? (I still know Andrew, btw)....

Of course I'm drinking.... ....corrected my spelling...just spent 10 hours making a generations old lasagna recipe for Thanksgiving....annual tradition around my place.....time to relax and engage on Pinside.....

pulled my downvote....I do hope I'm right this time, and the info is good...for the sake of all involved......

Added...can you post when you requested? Thanks....

In lieu of post #18706 in the main Alien thread (I received the same e-mail this morning), I'm going to close this one down. This e-mail is quite refreshing, and they are obviously aware of the challenges, have a plan (whether we like it or not) on how games/ refunds will go out, and aren't going to pay much mind to social media, providing updates as they see fit to the customers.

I appreciate them being as honest as possible, and no point in beating a dead horse. This does seem to show their intent in making everyone whole, and not abandoning early adopters. I wish them speedy resolution, in for the remaining haul (however long that might be), but see no point in discussing or attempting to clarify the now very, very obvious. More convinced than ever that games/customer support/ refunds/ etc. will be handled, but on THEIR timeline. Is what it is.......

After much thought....you are right. Even if I closed it, someone else could open an identical one. Hopefully, this contains the fires a bit, and allows us a way to track. Request to mods retracted, thread remains open...

Ok...almost 2 weeks since last post. Any activity one way or the other? Morgan has stated they will be reaching out w update by end of the week....

As in tomorrow, I believe....

Yea, not sure where he is with that. Morgan said they would post this week (which I took to mean by today) to all of the LE early adopters, as well as general update on where they were.

Surely progress is being made......I haven't named names, but have conveyed there was around 40k sitting in refunds from pinsiders, and I believed time was hear to start getting these items addressed, now that there is games flowing.

I wonder how many the distros have committed to, and how much cash is really being seen? Hoping a fair amount.

Certainly going to take more time....I've given up on the Christmas delivery (obviously).

Thanks....it will happen....eventually....late Christmas presents are always best...

Counting on that.....they are moving the right way....for that I'm grateful...for everyone involved.

Sent another e-mail for update tonight. All I've seen for an update is a Blue armored LE on FB, and David posted some amplifier settings....

Well....17 days later....anyone have anything to report? I don't have my LE (obviously) and haven't gotten any response to the refunds except "it would all be cleared by first quarter". Just curious....thanks

I can only bump as well, as my communication is getting sparse....

Thanks for the healthy input Kim. Jeff and I (along with others) are trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I started this thread with a sincere hope it would give us a $$$ to identify, and give those owed a place to vent (trying to keep it in here).

Obviously hasn't accomplished much of anything to this point, but a reasonable place to voice the frustration, along with, hopefully, some better news in some form. Until some solid communication/ resolution is established, it will be hard to get away from the negative theme (as it should be, sadly) . We are all watching.....

My thoughts exactly.....but I have had zero PM's one way or the other, and have heard nothing from Morgan in quite some time. Read some article copy in the other thread stating their resolve to early adopters and refunds, but nothing that has been conveyed to me. Please post either way with any $$$ updates ....thanks...mark

Congrats!!!!

So just added pinzilla who is owed $1500 for around a year.....Has anyone received a refund?