Maybe this thread helps, maybe it doesn't. The latest Alien I've played in the wild is an amazing game. Everything I'd hoped for my grail theme.

As happy as I am for the new owners and the machine itself, I'm as equally unhappy with the posts regarding refund requests that have gone unaddressed. The purpose of this thread is to find out who is owed a refund, how much, and how long have you been waiting beyond broken promises. I'm not expecting complete truth here, but at least it can provide either the immensity, or the minority of cash on the table.

Games are being made and they are going out. If a refund has been given from whatever means (chargeback, paypal dispute, etc.) then you are not owed any money, but entitled to be forever ill w the company in regards to how your situation was handled.

I will be happy to pass on results found here on to Heighway, as this refund mess has to end. Not addressing poor customer service stories here....this is about money, pure and simple.

So the question: WHO IS OWED MONEY, AND HOW MUCH? PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR LEVEL OF COMMUNICATION W THE FACTORY. Be mad, but also be honest about the cash. I'm asking out of sincerity for fellow pinsiders....if there is 10k or 100k (hard to believe) I just want to see it here, so it can be gauged, put a time metric on it (starting today) and we can update as refunds are issued. I'll be happy to create a list here, for all to see.

This has to end for them to progress. Time for all to lay the truth card on the table, in order for us to understand the scope and (potentially) help. Thanks...mark

Thank you for contributing. Respect your position, and now 1st on my communication list.

Just added toads $1500 deposit to this list

No, just Morgan and Dan at this point. I DO have a long standing deposit on an LE, and made it clear that I would pay the balance in full immediately when my machine was ready to ship. Also told them ( repeatedly) that I was concerned that fellow pinsiders were still owed refunds and was very concerned about it.

Thinking they definitely will want all of the balances at some point when the games get built, that can be leveraged in a civil manner, at least on my end. i.e.- " anxious for my game as many are, but cant take delivery in good faith until I know x has been cleared, as they are fellow pinsiders and wouldn't feel right about it".

A viable approach, and if the monies owed are not astronomical, believe it would work " wash" in business sense.

Ive waited a long time and will continue, so I have one card to play....want the machine badly, and have $$$ to give them.

Noted, thanks

So have you asked for the deposit refunded, or waiting ( like me)? Just trying to get a #$$$

I've counted $14800 so far, w another possible $1500 to add as of now....

Will update as the posts show, when I can

Im doing a thumbs up to everyone that is responding w info I can use. I know its sort of meaningless, but I do appreciate the truth on this. It will certainly give me a more realistic # as to what we are dealing with here.

If its not posted here, then it cant be considered. Legitimately want to see the total, and see how it is dealt with on their end.

To inherit any debt load and a non functioning company can take time to sort. Im hanging on, believing its ever so slowly turning right.

You are spot on, and thanks for the support!!!!! I want to call an actual # to this mess and approach that way. Hurt feelings don't count, ill will or agendas don't count, fan boys or haters don't count. Only TRUE ACTUAL $$$ with timeline and effort of engagement are relative.

Hell, my $6k or whatever, gets me a game and makes someone else whole. I know it's technically "robbing Peter to pay Paul" but in this case, both would win...I'd have a game, someone else gets there money, and Heighway keeps whatever margins to get the wheels running better.

Suspect they are doing a version of this, I'm just trying to identify the actual cash...nothing else.

noted, and wouldn't be so sure about the 60 days being too far off if games are being built.

As a help for me, could you convert to US $$$ easier for me to put a # up every so often.

Thanks for the input!!!!!

Yep...think it will help if someone verifies my math....looking at $20,100. So far

Im hoping to delete as well, as we progress

Thanks Toads...I added your $1500.00 in at post #7 above.

I want my Alien, but I really am supporting everyone here just as much.

Thanks billycrna.....added to the list and my running total. If there's any trend I'm seeing....it seems early adopters (old money) that want a refund are in the $1500.00 group (except hank) so far. Timelines on the bigger chunks seem to be on shorter leashes.

Regardless, we're at $23.4k now. If I owed $6k on my LE, then building/ delivering 4 games, using the "Peter/ Paul" approach makes 8 people whole. A very reasonable #, I believe. Suspect the # will rise, but this should not be insurmountable, imho. The game rocks....lust get some more machines out there, and make these guys whole....

Dammit Mike..... ....at least I didn't change the # yet, $24.9k

Think I'm going to generate a real basic spreadsheet at the office on monday, and forward with my e-mails to Morgan:

Pinsider name.................Amount owed.............Date requested

This should eliminate this piece of the "confusion" on their part.

Even if the #$ doubles, it would only take 10 machines to end this. Lets hope they are busy doing just that.......news of another container coming stateside will go a long way, imho.

I'm very grateful the machine is as good as it is, otherwise, a different tale, for sure.....

I can add the names if you'd like.....you'll note the total nut is changing as posts are received (when I see them). If we can shelve the anger, and keep this about the cash, I believe we will see the curve go up as people report...level off...then hopefully diminish.

I could add the names, then mark "fulfilled" when they report they get their refund (remember, this is just about cash). I'd be happy to do it.

Been waiting/ wanting this game as long as anyone here, I suspect. It only seems right that I try to help in getting those t.hat want out their $$$ back.

If they make their Christmas promise to me, and state the game is ready to ship, I'll definitely take it, but will expect this refund # to be much lower, or gone, by then.

Seems pretty straightforward to me, provided they build, work the bugs out of the games, and get them out. Sincerely believe this is their intent, or why would they have shipped anything, period? One right doesn't offset one wrong, sadly, but can say with complete honesty, after playing the machine, this is going to be one to have. Let's hope this can help facilitate the process (someone over there HAS to be watching Pinside, if only on occasion).

May sound weird, but I REALLY believe they are just unraveling this mess, and 100% committed to building games, nothing else. I think the bookkeeping that was inherited could have been an absolute nightmare. I'm not naive, and run a successful business that deals w far larger #'s than this, and can say first hand that if internal communication and resources are not square, things can take 10x longer than usual.

This is the precise reason I'm starting this thread. I'm very convinced there is massive confusion, pressure, and expectations....they have refunded in FULL some, and totally ignored others (apparently). This looks much more like disorganization within a newly formed company (that is what it is), than not being funded to make things happen quickly or efficiently at the moment.

Suspect, the beancounter that is going through this will state "ok, we've positively identified (x) person is owed money, and it gets paid. Can also envision this same person stating " no one spends money on a pencil , until I sort some of this shit out". No one can afford to just take peoples word on refund requests...they are going to need to sort it out to be certain.

They can be very legitimate, but if they are, they will also be very, very careful in over-committing, throwing $$$ around on verbals, etc. Prudence and due diligence takes time.

I am NOT defending them, but they inherited quite a mess, unfortunately, and must tread lightly moving forward...but they ARE moving forward, thankfully.

This list will give them one more piece of the puzzle (if everyone honest), and hopefully help them get sorted........

Yep....lots and lots to get aligned...I'm grateful they are trying.....want the damn game

I had the good (or bad) fortune of playing Kneissl's a couple weeks ago.....must have this one!!!!

Agreed w all your points....I think some of us "old money" never made it into "new" land, obviously, and am still not convinced they even know what is completely owed. Morgan certainly doesn't write the checks (idk who does), but maybe they stated...."x per month in refunds, x for overhead, x for production, etc.". Only explanation as to why some got the refunds so random, and some didn't.

Hell, even $100k isn't that big of a #, and doubt there's that much out there......

Giving them the break, as the machine is not the problem, it's the business side. They'll sell a shitpile of these things...just make the games, money rolls, problems over, healing begins.

I just want to put a # in their face when I speak w them.

Big Time!!!!!! I'm also getting some very promising pm activity, which I must keep offline for now....all signs looking very positive!!!!

Oh, they hear you...given the influx in games going out, and short time that you requested, suspect this one will be quick. With due respect, many bail on preorders when ready to ship.
Its the old money that has to be washed with new, and much harder to verify, process. Your # has been added nonetheless . Given what has been revealed just this past 2 days, I officially have zero worry of getting mine, and them cleaning the old mess in short order.
They are going to sell many of these machines .....

Added...thanks for helping