(Topic ID: 57749)

oh oh! In trouble with the CITY for selling games on CL


By eXidy

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 140 posts
  • 72 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Gexchange
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 140 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 6 years ago
    Quoted from royce6135:

    You can out who reported you. Do a freedom of information request, and figure out who is a ass on the street.

    Do us all a favor and post the address, too

    #52 6 years ago
    Quoted from movingpictures:

    man, they are coming to inspect you next wednesday ... get the booby traps ready!

    "Oops, I dropped a couple of hundreds, my back hurts, could you pick those up for me?"

    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    Do us all a favor and post the address, too

    Nah man, that's a pretty shitty thing to do. The neighbors do need to mind their own business, but you can't get upset with them for the way they feel. It doesn't make it right, but they are entitled to feel that way.

    #53 6 years ago

    This makes me pretty mad. I got a rolling stop ticket not long after my home was burglarized. I was fuming. I got to give the cop a super-condescending "good job! nice work!", so that was worth the $88, alone. I've taken pictures of the scene, wrote up a pretty convincing case against the officer's ability to judge a stop from his position, and will be fighting it in court.

    Will I win? I have no idea, but they're all in cahoots, so I highly doubt it. Still, it's my right to use the court system, and I will be using it out of principle to disincentivise these types of 'revenue' tickets. They're counting on you NOT fighting it.

    This aggression will not stand, man!

    #54 6 years ago

    I would NOT sell games out of a storage unit. Bad idea! Guy comes and buys 1 game, and then comes back the next day when you're not there, with a pair of bolt cutters, and cleans you out.

    I use storage units - and any time someone comes to buy a game, they come to my location. The customers don't know which storage units I use, where, and that's for a reason.

    As far as whether it's a business, if you're moving that amount of inventory, I'd call it a business, personally..

    #55 6 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    It doesn't make it right, but they are entitled to feel that way.

    Feel, yes. Formally complain, no. We'd be a lot better off if everyone kept their nose in their own napkin.

    The late night pinball parties are a great idea. Make sure to invite the responding officer in for a few games.

    #56 6 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    Will I win? I have no idea, but they're all in cahoots, so I highly doubt it. Still, it's my right to use the court system, and I will be using it out of principle to disincentivise these types of 'revenue' tickets. They're counting on you NOT fighting it.

    This aggression will not stand, man!

    Fight the man. Make them work for your 88$. GLWCB!

    #57 6 years ago

    Jurassic Park said: System Failure

    #58 6 years ago

    I'm still not seeing how selling 3-4 games a month is within the reasonable levels of buy/sell for a hobby. How could someone possibly be tired of a game a week to the point that it needs to be sold and replaced? How large of a collection does a person need to have before it requires that level of turnover to be fresh? I'm not saying I agree with the legal issues here but 3-4 games a month is probably toeing the line between hobby and business regardless of profitability.

    #59 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    toeing the line between hobby and business regardless of profitability

    The difference between a hobby and a business IS the profitability. (In that terrible language known as legalese)

    #60 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    I'm still not seeing how selling 3-4 games a month is within the reasonable levels of buy/sell for a hobby. How could someone possibly be tired of a game a week to the point that it needs to be sold and replaced? How large of a collection does a person need to have before it requires that level of turnover to be fresh? I'm not saying I agree with the legal issues here but 3-4 games a month is probably toeing the line between hobby and business regardless of profitability.

    Yes ... and of course I have no idea if this is accurate, but if you're able to profit $500 on each machine, and 4 machines a month ... we're not talking about small amounts here - that's $24k/year in profit.

    #61 6 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    The difference between a hobby and a business IS the profitability. (In that terrible language known as legalese)

    The *tax difference* (i.e. the IRS) is profitability.

    The city doesn't care if you make money. They care about activity levels/types and zoning.

    #62 6 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    The difference between a hobby and a business IS the profitability. (In that terrible language known as legalese)

    I don't agree to that cut and dry logic. If I collect stamps and have 1000 and sell one cause it's a duplicate and make $1 profit off of it, with that logic it's a business. And if I run a business and lose money, it's now a hobby?

    #63 6 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    The neighbors do need to mind their own business, but you can't get upset with them for the way they feel. It doesn't make it right, but they are entitled to feel that way.

    I had a neighbor, who I met once, that constantly called in to the city for reasons I'll never know, with "delivery trucks at all hours of the day and night". I actually suspected another neighbor, but when the city decided that these reports were harassment, they actually told me who it was and I was shocked. As far as I knew this guy was a tax accountant, working from home (the irony) and my house wasn't even in his view, let alone my front driveway.

    #64 6 years ago

    Don't be under the impression that I think the neighbor did the right thing. Snitches get stitches.

    Whatever happened to being a man and walking down to your neighbors house and talking to them about it?

    I refuse to live in areas with HOAs, because I don't need some power hungry loser acting as a mediator between me and my neighbors.

    I was just saying that retaliating against the nosy neighbors with a flood of internet people is a shitty thing to do. They do that on 4chan, not on pinside.

    #65 6 years ago

    They'd probably have less of an issue if you were selling weed.

    #66 6 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I was just saying that retaliating against the nosy neighbors with a flood of internet people is a shitty thing to do. They do that on 4chan, not on pinside.

    I agree to that, was just saying sometimes there's a reason to get upset at nosy neighbors. They can feel what they like about a situation, but when they fabricate things to cause trouble they just made themselves the worse of the two parties.

    #67 6 years ago
    Quoted from eXidy:

    Yeah thats the case, they see me moving stuff in and out and they think im selling those games.

    Man, I hate nosy neighbors. I can't see how this could possibly be a nuisance to them unless it occurs A LOT.

    #68 6 years ago
    Quoted from eXidy:

    I live in a nice neighborhood and never have people come at night, nor do I cause any kind of trouble regarding traffic.

    There's your problem.. "nice neighborhoods" are where folks who have nothing better to do than meddle in their neighbors' affairs tend to live. See also: HOAs. Good luck!

    #69 6 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    There's your problem.. "nice neighborhoods" are where folks who have nothing better to do than meddle in their neighbors' affairs tend to live. See also: HOAs. Good luck!

    Yup. The only way to win is to cut your grass really early.

    #70 6 years ago
    Quoted from toddsvec:

    And if I run a business and lose money, it's now a hobby?

    Good question, with lots of gray areas. You do get to right off the losses for 3 years, then I think the IRS considers it a hobby and does not allow anymore deductions because of loss.

    FYI: I am not a tax expert.

    #71 6 years ago

    None of that matters here because his citation is from the city. The city does not care about what the IRS thinks.

    #72 6 years ago
    Quoted from jimjim66:

    Good question, with lots of gray areas. You do get to right off the losses for 3 years, then I think the IRS considers it a hobby and does not allow anymore deductions because of loss.

    FYI: I am not a tax expert.

    (Discussing, not arguing). I do get that if you constantly write stuff off for years and years that the IRS would consider it a hobby, really you're doing it for fun. I tried to argue (with the city) that I collect pinball machines, and sometimes sell them and buy others. They said I had to report everything. So if I bought it for $1000 and sold it for $1000 I have to pay on $1000? "That's correct." I then asked how this was different from someone collector cars, the response? "Oh, that's different!"

    Very, very clear......

    #73 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    None of that matters here because his citation is from the city

    Look at the other check boxes. Keep reaching for that utopia!

    #74 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jazman:

    So how many sales constitute a "business"? I'd love to hear the guy that issued the paperwork answer that. What constitutes a business if you're not earning your living from it?
    Also, getting a business license probably would subject you to a load of other crap since now you're acknowledging it's a business. Things like personal property tax, OSHA requirements (ie: you're moving heavy machines up and down and are you doing it with safety equipment, etc. All it takes is a guy from OSHA seeing it and you're on the hook for fines), zoning requirements, other permits, etc.
    Best of luck dude!
    Jaz

    Correct. And they cannot do an inspection in your home without a search warrant. You do not have to let them in. And no local judge is going to authorize a search warrant for this (usually). He merely sent out a "courtesy warning/citation" to satisfy the complainant, show his boss he is doing his job, and to attempt to get you to mitigate the issue without any further involvement on his part. Sometimes you have to stick up for your rights. And if you give it a lot of thought its pretty hard for the city to "prove" you are running a business. The complainant would probably refuse to show up to court to testify against you anyway...so go for it. And if he shows up demand a jury trial! That usually brings some sanity to the court system when someone threatens to use their constitutional rights over something as silly as this. If you change your way of doing things they will not be able to find you responsible for anything anyhow. Remember that the violation is for "running a business out of your home"...not for having run a business out of your home in the past. Keep us updated please.

    #75 6 years ago

    I would not let anyone into my home for an "inspection" without a warrant. Follow Glen's advice (playernumber4) above.

    #76 6 years ago

    Sorry, Glen beat me to it while I was writing a response. Anyone who wants to inspect your home is NOT there to help you. Last year, I let a township inspector into my home and he put some dye into my toilet. When the dye showed up in the storm sewer, I was given an order to redo the sewer connections outside of my house and it cost me a couple of Gs. The ironic part is that the very same township approved and supposedly inspected the original connections by my builder only 6 years earlier.

    #77 6 years ago

    thx for sharing the video .good luck in whatever you pursue. everyone here gave great advice.
    so hard to believe instead of tackling pedafiles, drug dealers, rapists, killers, thieves...they knock on your door. what idiots.

    #78 6 years ago

    well, it just dawned on me. I was thinking to myself "WTF did the guy mean? trucks driving in and out". Shit, its NAVL. Thats what he's talking about. I use them like once in a while and they make a racket here, big 26' truck with beeping and slamming the lift gates.

    I bet this is what caused all the problems.

    #79 6 years ago
    Quoted from eXidy:

    well, it just dawned on me. I was thinking to myself "WTF did the guy mean? trucks driving in and out". Shit, its NAVL. Thats what he's talking about. I use them like once in a while and they make a racket here, big 26' truck with beeping and slamming the lift gates.

    I bet this is what caused all the problems.

    If you are referring to my post about my neighbor's complaint to the city, no, wasn't NAVL. Wasn't anyone. Was my neighbor lying.

    #80 6 years ago
    Quoted from eXidy:

    Shit, its NAVL

    Damn NAVL always screwing things up. haha

    #81 6 years ago

    NNAAAAAVVVVVLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    khaaan.jpg

    #82 6 years ago

    Yes don't let them into your house. You should do a information request to the department which sent the inspector (they will tell you who it was). You then should go chat with you pos neighbor. People these days don't talk to their neighbors, they only report them and its sad.

    #83 6 years ago
    Quoted from johnwartjr:

    I would NOT sell games out of a storage unit. Bad idea! Guy comes and buys 1 game, and then comes back the next day when you're not there, with a pair of bolt cutters, and cleans you out.

    Rent a second, tiny unit for the sale of the day. Problem solved.

    Quoted from hlaj78:

    Last year, I let a township inspector into my home and he put some dye into my toilet. When the dye showed up in the storm sewer, I was given an order to redo the sewer connections outside of my house and it cost me a couple of Gs.

    Maybe they didn't want raw sewage in the storm drain?

    -1
    #84 6 years ago
    Quoted from eXidy:

    Looks like I got in trouble for selling games on CL. I list around 2-4 a month, sometimes a little less but never more. City has asked me to stop selling games or get a business license

    Aren't you the same guy who feigned ignorance and "lost sleep" over whether or not you got a good deal on a MM for $8k? Claiming you didn't really know the value?

    Seems that someone who lists 2-4 pins a month for sale would probably have a clue what a MM was worth.

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/am-i-crazy-buying-this-medieval-madness

    Just sayin'.

    #85 6 years ago

    2-4 pins? I said 2-4 games (mostly vids).
    not knowing a price is something weird to you? I dont buy/sell MM's every day. Actually havent owned one for years so its not so strange. IMHO prices are all over the place with games, its hard to keep up.

    #86 6 years ago

    You are unbelievable. That was legit. I've been at this a while too and I just consulted someone over the value of a TZ. I should know what a TZ goes for, but the market is insane, I haven't seen one sell for a while around here, and I wanted an opinion.

    Games are not turning over like they used to, and without turnover you don't have as much information as you used to about the actual value. The only way to determine the actual value of a game is to sell it.

    Quoted from RobT:

    Aren't you the same guy who feigned ignorance and "lost sleep" over whether or not you got a good deal on a MM for $8k?

    #87 6 years ago

    You could just deny that you are running a business, and for a backstory:

    "Yeah, I collected arcade games all my life. But now some medical problems have forced me to start slowly liquidating my lifelong collection."

    This implies:

    1. you are collector (not a dealer).
    2. you are somehow sick (sympathy).
    3. you will have some future sales (so when the neighbor calls again, the inspector can say "Yes, he is clearing out his lifelong collection").

    Could be fun to video tape the exchange (on the porch, don't let 'em in your house).

    #88 6 years ago
    Quoted from eXidy:

    btw, he had a print out of all my CL games from 2 months back! including an xmen and mm. that didnt look to good hahhaha.

    Am I the only one thinking it was the complaining neighbor that printed the CL ads from the last 2 months that gave them to the city with his complaint. IMHO, the city did not collect the CL ads themselves.

    Thumbs up this post if you think I'm right, Thumbs Down if you think I'm wrong (mini poll so to speak). If this is against the pinside rules for thumbs up/down, then please disregard.

    Good luck with the city,

    Tom

    #89 6 years ago

    Do what Vid said, except make it a sick parent that you are helping with medical bills. That way you don't have to fake cough for the inspector.

    #90 6 years ago

    I think you're 1/2 right. The city hasn't been tracking this guy, but it could have been anyone that called in the complaint.

    Quoted from Tom_in_NoVA:

    Am I the only one thinking it was the complaining neighbor that printed the CL ads from the last 2 months that gave them to the city with his complaint. IMHO, the city did not collect the CL ads themselves.

    #91 6 years ago

    Haha, crazy shit

    #92 6 years ago

    You live in a blue state, and they want that tax money!

    #93 6 years ago
    Quoted from Tom_in_NoVA:

    Do what Vid said, except make it a sick parent that you are helping with medical bills. That way you don't have to fake cough for the inspector.

    Lying in a way that's easily proven false is never a helpful thing. Refuse to answer, refuse to allow access, but lying is only going to bite a person in the ass later on. Even if it's not in this case it will in some other case.

    #94 6 years ago
    Quoted from AbacusMan:

    You live in a blue state, and they want that tax money!

    They need it to send to the red states

    I agree with everyone saying NOT to file for a license and to NOT allow an inspection without a warrant. Stand up for your rights, dammit!

    #95 6 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You could just deny that you are running a business, and for a backstory:
    "Yeah, I collected arcade games all my life. But now some medical problems have forced me to start slowly liquidating my lifelong collection."
    This implies:
    1. you are collector (not a dealer).2. you are somehow sick (sympathy).3. you will have some future sales (so when the neighbor calls again, the inspector can say "Yes, he is clearing out his lifelong collection").
    Could be fun to video tape the exchange (on the porch, don't let 'em in your house).

    That won't work with the IRS when they get their copy of your city's business permit, if you get it. They seem to have a problem with people not reporting income.

    #96 6 years ago

    The same thing has happened to a friend that collects cars. One bozo
    neighbor (a pot head) decided she didn't like his *hobby* so she kept
    calling the county to complain. As it turns out most cites and counties
    have exemptions for hobbyists. The next time they bug you just tell them
    this is your hobby.

    #97 6 years ago

    You obviously have a neighbor watching and either does not like you or what you are doing.
    If you find out who they are I would re-pay them with the same treatment.

    The license / no license is basic math. If a "business license" or permit is less cost than a ticked or court appearance I would just get it, and try to ID the idiot neighbor.

    #98 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Lying in a way that's easily proven false is never a helpful thing. Refuse to answer, refuse to allow access, but lying is only going to bite a person in the ass later on. Even if it's not in this case it will in some other case.

    Yep. Don't admit to anything, don't deny anything. Just don't say anything. Anything can be used against you not for you.

    #99 6 years ago

    Yep. If you really want to ensure that the city officials get on your butt and stay on your butt then lie to them and get caught. Nothing creates a grudge with a city official quicker than bruising their ego by obviously lying to them. That changes your situation from one in which they are obligated to cite you into one where they are looking for reasons to shut you down.

    #100 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Yep. If you really want to ensure that the city officials get on your butt and stay on your butt then lie to them and get caught. Nothing creates a grudge with a city official quicker than bruising their ego by obviously lying to them. That changes your situation from one in which they are obligated to cite you into one where they are looking for reasons to shut you down.

    I'm with chad. These are regular people doing their job. Explain what you are doing, and see what you need to do to fit into their rules. Then find out who the neighbor is, and send them something.

    You can either do a fruit basket with a note that says "Sorry for the big trucks coming in and out. Thanks for reporting me though."

    Or you can fill a spray jug with bleach and go write "F*** YOU" in their grass.

    Post edited by absocountry2 : F bomb edited

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