Hi Guys,

Kids were playing the F-14 and happy as a clam. The game then reported Adjust Switch 28, Pop Bumper 28. Is there anyone out there that might be able to help me walk through this. Major bummer.

Thanks Guys,

George

Just looked in the manual and accordingly, switch 28 goes to the Jet bumper in the center of the playfield. Really hope someone out there has seen this or has a clue what is going on.

Thanks again guys,

George

Hey Vid,

Can you give some dialogue here as to explaining what may have occurred. familair with this particualr game. What the F happened?

G

Do I have to go all out and reaplce the whole assembly or just adjust a switch.

Hey Zip,

I presume on that pop bumper correct?

G

Vid,

just lifted up the playfield and looked at the switch. All wiring seems to be intact will try to do the switch test and see what i can discover

hello All,

Just took the balls out of the machine and did the switch test. third player window says switch 05 I am assuming this window should be blank if all is OK right. When I initially turn the machine on it is saying check switch 28 pop bumper 28 though when i manually activate that switch the pop bumper seems to works just fine

Also when i turn the machine on i get the following messages in the windows
1 F-14
2 Tomcat
3 ID 00
4 554 r-1 (maybe the fives are s's)

Does this make for any help or just more confusion.

Thanks all,

george

when i do the switch test vid the game recognizes switch 28 ok that other switch though 05 seems like it is always on because it never leaves the third player window in the switch test

forget the comment about the numeral five that must just be the number of the test. i have found two switches that will not respond. the left front round disk (where there are two right next to each other) mid playfiled and them the M in TOM in the upper left top portion of the playfiled. Obviously not right but it does not appear the game is indicating that is the issue

The 05 is jsut the test number. Forget about that vid. My newbie misunderstanding. Please check what I just posted to see if this makes any sense

Found a bad solder joint on the right white disc center mid filed. this is tied with a yellow jumper to the left switch immediatley next door. re soldered that and now that switch registers on the switch test. i am going to proceed to the M in TOM in the upper playfield as that is not registering either when i activate it.

only thing that makes me nervous here is that neither one of these has anything to do with switch 28 but maybe together they are freakin the machine out. more work and report to come

you guys are the best!!

switch-472.JPG

switch-295.JPG

Ahh I see the pic did load just took forever to have it happen impatient bastard i am. Anyway, yellow jumper in the middle of the picture where that ties to the right switch the solder joint was really bad hope this is not shades of things to come with this game.

UPDATE: GAME IS NOW WORKING. Reapired a broken wire on the M switch in TOM in the upper playfield. Guess the combination of the two switches failing togther possibly made it look like it was the pop bumper when in reality it had nothing to do with the popper

THANKS ALL,

George

Hey Zippy

The one appeared to be a broken wire which could have happened as a result of age but the other fault was absolutely a case of someone not knowing how to solder.

You guys are great!!!

HI Guys,

So keeping in mind the switch matrix, one really cannot rely on the game to diagnose what is wrong. Initially, my game told me that the pop bumper switch needed adjustment when in reality it had nothing to do with the pop bumper but given how the game is wired, the game thought it could be the pop bumper. Note to self, when this arises again and from the sounds of things it very well may, check all the switches first and sort of ignore the specific switch and check them all as given the matrix, it may not be as it appears to the game.

Thanks again guys.

Anyone out there have a layout of where the clear platsics go on the F-14? I ordered a new set and received today but cannot figure out where a couple pieces go. Thought I was only missing the big piece top left but obvioulsy am missing more than I thought. Also, there appears to be standoffs that may be required to mount these clear plastics. If so they are msising as well and I need to get specs I guess to replicate them. Still kind of nervous about pop riveting the new plastics to the old. WOuld really prefer to use screws and lock nuts.

George

Hey Wolf,

Thank you, it feels good to be able to handles these type of things one self than have to rely on having a repair guy come in. Vid's suggestion to check the switch reporting was a good idea. Now I know how to interpret those reports and importantly how not to.

Kids are back lovin the game again which is really why I bought it. It is OK to play but I still enjoy the old E/M's that I have as well.

Still need to get the clear plastics installed in the machine and then the battery holder clipped off the main board and relocated for safety's sake.

G

Led's came in the machine when I bought it Zip. At least that part is done.

G

Appreciate your guidance Vid. Thank you

Hi All,

Just wanted to update the thread. The switch 28, pop bumper 28 message is still coming across the displays on the F-14 occassionally. Although I had a couple non-working switches for which I repaired, I have noticed that the pop bumper does not work when the ball rolls up against it even though in the switch test that I performed, the switch was recognized by the machine and the pop bumper did actuate. Vid suggested that i adjust the switch so that it takes less to actuate it. Will do this and will report back with what I find by doing this.

After reading the manual I understand that this is normal for the machine to report that this bumper is not working.

Thanks to all,

George

Hi All,

Update, Just did the switch test again and could not get the pop bumper to register or activate. Hoping it is a switch issue. It did work before when I did the switch test but not no more. Have to take a look at the wiring and the switch.

Thank you,

G

Hey Vid, or anyone else with intimate F-14 knowledge, you out there?? Just found another hack in my machine that I just got. While I was working this eve to re-locate the battery holder from the board to the cabinet, I noticed that the knocker in the upper right of the back box had one of the wires cut to it. Why, no idea. Do you see any harm in re-connecting to at least see what happens?

Thank you

George

Hey Pato,

Did all the evaluations that you aluded to prior and all told me that it was OK to proceed hooking it back up.

All good here I think. Checked the coil before I hooked it up and had about 3.6 ohms. Figured that was fine. Again, as you noted as long as I did not have a dead short. No discoloration to the coild etc. Knocker is back in biz.

No slam on power up.

G

Allow me to second what you said Mike. Amen.

Hello Pato,

Regarding the pop bumper, it seemed like the last time I tried to manually activate it I had to push harder than I would have expected on the skirt to get the pop bumper to fire. You speak of a "score switch", where wouold this be? I thought that there was only the switch on the skirt and that in turn when activated would trigger the coil to fire the pop bumper. Am I mistaken here?

This is all that I was aware of. When the switch tripped from the skirt of the pop, it triggered the pop. Maybe there is more to it than that. Seems like my pop does work occassionally but not like it should and again, I go back to what Vid says that it is probably an adjustment issue Just wish that darn package was'nt so far down on the playfield!!

Will try and look at that this eve and try and get a picture of it as it sits so I can help to determine what the current state of the switch is.

What I will try and do is take a picture of the switch in place this eve and post that and hopefully with that in hand and some assistance here, I will be able to make the necessary adjustments. I do believe it is a double switch as there are four contacts. Was wondering what that was all about.

Thank you Pato. So it sounds like what I would be concerned with as to the lack of firing of the pop is the switch closest to the bottom of the playfield as if this does not work properly, the coil does not fire and if it doesnt fire the score switch says that it has not fired in sometime to the cpu. Right on???

Hi All,

Went ahead this eve and added fusing to each of the bridge rectifiers. Kinda felt that I was on borrowed time with that one. You know when you have been told that you should do something to prevent something else from happening and you put it off only to kick oneself when that something happens cause you did'nt do what you were suppose to. Now you see where I was at. Anyway, mod complete. Now onto the diode switch out for the saving of the displays and then switch adjustment to get my pop bumper back in action.

Thank you all,

G

switch-294.JPG

HI Guys,

Just wanted to update that I was able to adjust the pop bumper switch to make the pop bumper work as it should. Thanks for the good advice Vid. "Hair trigger". Got it. Feel pretty good about being able to do this myself. In the past I have needed on site help to do this stuff. Thanks to all who so graciously have assisted.

I have uploaded an image of my switch that is attached to my main flipper. Seems awfully corroded (white). Any suggestions for remedying this issue. Clean, replace etc. The switch is closed when the flipper is at rest and opens when the flipper fires. Both main flippers have a similiar condition.

Thank you all you fine pinheads!!

G

Hi Wayout,

Thank you for the feedback. It is all working but I knew this could not be right. I will leave it be and just order another couple switches and replace them. Do you know what this switch is called by chance?

Thank you,

G

Hey Wayout,

Just talked to Steve at PBR and he knew what I was describing. I think he said it was an EOS switch, I think. Anyway, he has them and is going to send me a couple. Slowly but surely I seem to be shopping this game.

Thank you Wayout,

G

Hello LJ,

Sorry, just saw your post. Probably a good idea.

Thank you,

G

Hey pato,

No worries. I think I am just going to do the switch for now. I want to keep the machine in operating condition for the kids without having it down for a period working on it. I think I can do the switches pretty timely so I will do that after I replace the diodes for the display life.

Thank you,

G

PS PCB.JPG
Hi Guys,

Just wanted to confirm that the two diodes pictured just below the two transistors with heat sinks on them are the ones that need to be switched out to save the plasma displays. I recall you telling me these were the ones Vid. Just confirming as this is first on the to do list tomorrow AM. The left diode is just below and to the right of the transistor and the right is pretty much right below the right transistor.

Thank you all,

George

PS PCB-768.JPG

Thank you Vid. Have not seen any markings on the PCB. Very much appreciate your confirmation Sir.

G

Hi Vid,

If you are referring to the markings on the original diodes, they are there but I do not see anything on the playfield as to an orientation of the diode or marking of component ID. On a good note, I bent back the memory protect switch in the coin door. Think I know why somebody did that now and it is back to the way it should be. I removed the batteries and did the check with turning the machine of with the switch closed and open and got the correct displays out of the machine so another anomoly placed in bed.

Thanks so much Vid,

George

Hey Vid,

I was reading your review of F-14 and you had noted ion there that there was a service bulletin issued by Willaims for replacement of the upper flipper coils. Can you tell me more about this please?

Thank you,

George

Update on the F-14 project (did'nt think it would be a project but oh well)

Replaced the diodes per Vid's sugegstion on the PSB. Can't even tell the displays are any dimmer so I am happy about that. Was concerned that they would be dim to the point that it would not be attractive. You were right Vid, the diode orientation is printed on the backside of the PSB. I left the new diodes a bit raised off the PSB so in the event they do get toasty, hopefully they will not harm the PSB. Also found several fuses that were of incorrect value, not dramatically but still incorrect. Now they are all right. Also went ahead and put a new 110VAC plug on the end of the power cord. Existing one had a bad ground whereas the ground prong would get shoved back into the plug when plugging into an outlet. Not sure if the ground was really making contact. Thats right now too.

Just have to replace the EOS switches on the main flippers. I am fabricating the metal standoffs for the clear plastics on the right side of the playfield by the shooter lane and will then be able to install the plastics that are missing. I guess this all goes to support the fact that I am one anal pin owner?? Just like it when it is all correct and working properly.

George

Thanks so much way out for the thumbs up. Grateful!

G

Check this out fellas. Was looking under the playfield to get a value on the caps that are on the coils and noticed that the upper right coil had no cap on it at all. From my basic understanding this is not good as that ap keeps the spike from going back to the CPU and possibly damaging it. Could I get a confirmation if my theory here please. Also, I know the cap on the coil is a .1 uFD but do not know the voltage. 250 v is my guess.

Thanks guys

Georgeimage.jpg

Thank you Pato. Yeah, just talked to Steve to get some parts and he advised the same. I was confusing the diodes and the caps. Thank you for the clarity. Just dont get how one can clip out a component of a game and not feel compelled to replace it. I was concerned that continuing to play the game could cause damage to the main PCB but I know now that the 15 min or so that the game will be played between now and when I add the cap will not cause any serious damage. This is what I call a hack. I should have seen this when purchasing the game. My fault in not doing a more thorough examination. I just took the sellers word that there were no hacks. Again, my mistake. Hey, at least I am learning right???

G

Schwaggs,

Sort of sounds like you know the exact game that I have from your remark about the missing screws. Do you know something that I have yet to find?? Sort of scary...

G

Hi All

Have a question for you about the upper playfield right gate adjacent to the jet bumper. Seems like this gate will not stay in the closed position but always flips up and stays there. Other one closes as it should after the ball rolls through. The right looks the same as the left so I am not sure what the dealeo is here. Any thoughts guys??

Thank you

George

Hey WO,

I would consider a hack anything that is negative. Moving the batteries off the main board etc are positive modifications in my head but clipping a component out of a game and not replacing it, now that is a hack to me. I am just too damn anal sometimes for my own good.

G

Thank you wo

G

Made some minor adjustments to the gate and it now functions properly. Thank you way out

G

Hi Guys,

I noticed this eve while some friends were playing F-14, that the flashers under the lower left and right slingshots were not operating. I looked in the Syst 11 repair guide and noted that a possible big cuilprit here is the high power resistors on the underside of the playfield. While I did not meter these, I did just touch them with my hand and they all had a similiar heat level to them leaving me to believe that the resistors were doing their job (none disconnected or hanging by a thread) . Now the original lamps have been changed out to LED's important to note. I see where if the flash lamps were installed in series, if one goes out they all go out. This seems very plausible if pairs of flashers that are close to each other are not working as in my case. I also noticed where some of the high power transistors can get so hot that they de-solder themselves. I do not think this is an issue here.

Would you guys please weigh in here and give me your thoughts?

Thank you as always,

George...

Just took all the flasher LED's out of the slingshot area and used my DMM to test them. Not on the diode test but just ohms check. I thought that in the one direction I should get continuity and the other I should get infinity. I get infinity both ways on all led's. ??? Can they all be bad? Suppose so but how likely?? I am using a Fluke DMM with the diode test function. I tried that and get infinity on the display and no light out of the LED (negative lead to the barrel of the LED body (Cathode) and positive lead to bottom terminal on LED (Anode)). Did not use a 1K current resistor as did not have one handy but dont think this should kill the test procedure.

Thoughts??? I think I have some bad LED"S but I get nervous when there seems to be a slew of them bad you know what I mean.

Update. Don't think I have a bad led issue. I plugged in the two lower LEDs that go by the slingshot and the led glows slightly which I think is what the games calls filament mode I think. Upper two will not do this. Think I may have bad sockets. Thoughts??

Update. Definitely have at least one bad lamp socket if not two. Think the two are bad. One next to each slingshot. When I install a new socket, I get the slight glow of the filing circut that I do not have with the old socket.

Ok. I am a bit confused. During the attract mode the LEDs in question do illuminate during one if the sequences. I still have one led that does not have the dim light though it does come on when the other leds fully light. I still feel that the socket for this led that does not illuminate at dim light should be replaced so that it does have the dim light when not fully on. I need some direction at this point please

Hi Pato

Both sockets I removed were questionable at best. The sockets i removed were suitable for a #44. Maybe I misspoke as to my original description. If so I apologize. Set me straight here Pato

Maybe these only come on at a certain point which I think is the case. Oh well the crummy sockets are now out and I hope it will be ok

Thanks Pato

Pato

Yep I think you're right. ghost

G

Good Morning Wo

The #89 I believe are the larger bulbs than the #44 style. The larger incandescent are still in place. The LEDs that are there are the smaller ones that would go in a #44 socket. I think this should be ok correct?

George

Hi WO

The lights that I was talking originally are the ones shown in the attached picture. These are LEDs adjacent to the slingshots. The picture here is if the left side slingshot. I think the larger bulb under the lane guide directly above the flipper is what you are referring to and that is an incandecesent bulb along with one led of the #44 size

Gimage.jpg

Hello Pato

I must apologize for my greenness here. Please bare with me. I removed the connector on the psb that I have took a picture if and reseated it. The general illum lights now seem to be just fine. I have read that this connector can be problematic. These lights may have been working previously but just noticed last eve that they were out. Maybe when I took the psb out to do the diode mod to help save the gas displays it did not seat just perfectly to allow those gen illum lights to work. That seems to be ok now. Appreciate your hanging in there with me!!

I went ahead and did a test if the power transistors on the main PCB and according to the test that u did where I out my meter on buzz and had one lead to the games ground strap and touched the other lead to the sink if the transistors, I got continuity or "buzz" on the following
Q75, q71 and q69. Also q17 and q14. I cannot imagine that all these transistors are ahirted open and the game cold even work closely to how it was designed. Maybe wrong here.

I am grateful for your input Pato

Gimage.jpg

Pato

Doesn't seem like you have too much faith in me. Ha ha

I know I am green here but I do wish to learn to be somewhat self sufficient on these games. I start my burst in about a week so I have that much time to fiddle around before I am done till December. Maybe a good thing huh?!! What is your take on the transistor scenario. Followed the troubleshooting manual to a t and it seems straight forward enough but maybe I am missing something. Entirely possible

Thanks Pato

G

Hi Wayout

That's what I thought but the jet bumper for instance is not stuck on and to my knowledge nothing else is as the game seems to operate properly. When you say left and right kicker are you referring to the along shots as if so, they are working as they should too. Kind of not understanding this too well. Sorry to say

Thank you Wayout

G

Hi Pato

I seem to be frustrating and I do not mean to do that. What I am trying to do is learn about these machines so that when there is some noob like me down the road I can pay it back and in between now and then have some fun learning

I was reading in the service manual for Syst 11 that a good way to check the output transistors is to check for continuity between the heat sink (base) and the ground strap in the machine. If one gets continuity the transistor is shorted and needs replacing. Just checking mine here to make sure all is ok I suppose

Well I start doing this and end up with five or so that do show continuity but the game appears to work correctly. As Wayout reported the one transistor that I have that is supposedly shorted controls the jet bumper. Now if it is shorted which it is indicating the jet bumper should not be working correctly. Problem is it is working

I am not trying to be the bane of anyone's existence and maybe I just need to take a break from asking questions. Very possible. I tend to be a bit intense some times in my desire to learn

That's all Pato. Hope you have a good eve

G

Thank you very much Wayout. Merry Christmas

G