(Topic ID: 281817)
Linked Games
Bram Stoker's Dracula
Williams, 1993-
Creature from the Black Lagoon
Bally, 1992
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Judge Dredd
Bally, 1993
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Junk Yard
Williams, 1996
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Mousin' Around!
Bally, 1989
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No Good Gofers
Williams, 1997
-
Radical!
Bally, 1990
-
Road Show
Williams, 1994
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Melbourne
Quoted from soren:Thanks for all the tips and ideas. They will all be considered when their time comes. And may or may not come into use.
I do not wish to comment too much on specific suggestions right now. But let me comment on video mode generally.
Changing the way a video mode works might not be that easy. And it might be dangerous. For instance, the shuttle sim on STTNG is actually pretty hard to play. I could imagine that changing it to a random pattern could make it virtually impossible to complete. And hence to get the artifact.
Believe me. A change that looks fine on paper is often showing to tip the balance to the other side. Rather than reaching an equalibrium.
To me the best video modes are short and a novelty. Rather then being a hard challange if you will. And they should ideally only turn up once per game. Unless really deserved through a higher level performance. The one in The Getaway is one of the best ones I can think of. Both in content, play duration, where it appears first on a game and how long after this you get to see it again. You feel you can play it blindfold. But it is random and challanging enough that in competition you see people fail to max it.
So if a video mode makes a game too tedious or repetitive (repetitive at will in competition), and you want to do something about this, I like to look into the conditions of priming and starting the mode to start with.
On reflection, yes making STTNG video mode random would make it extremely hard to get the artifact. Alternatively given video mode can played multiple times in a game, would be be possible to increase the speed at which the mode runs for subsequent activations??
Quoted from PinJim:Maybe I missed it...does Soren have access to the original source code, or is he modifying the compiled ROM code? The latter seems like it'd be incredibly difficult.
Either way, I intend to jump on the updated creech roms. Good stuff!!
Edit: order placed. I can't wait to get my CFTBL out of the shop and try the new rom!
I don't believe that the original tools and systems used for the code creation still exist and Soren has indicated that his modifications are without access to any documentation. So it's impressive work
Quoted from PPS:I guess it's hard to comprehend ... PPS has the original source code and the tools to compile the original source code. Wondering how many posts it will take for someone to suppose that we do not ... again. PPS have had the source compiled and have all the Apple OS, etc. We also have all the P2K code as well, etc. And being the licensee, we are able to make authorized modifications to the original code - whatever approach works best, and that is what we have started doing with Soren.
oy.
Thank you for clarifying. I'm not only excited for what this means for future s/w updates but also from a nostalgia and preserving pinball history. As a techie at heart I'd love to read about how WMS created their code, the systems and tools they used; I'm always amazed at the speed they churned out games and surprised that there's so few bugs. I've read various interviews with some of the software designers from back in the day, they've got such great stories and I always get intrigued as to the systems they used.
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:Where is the ROM chip located on WPC-95 games, specifically Scared Stiff? Just got version 1.5 and need help knowing which one I swap.
It's on the CPU board - see the yellow highlight (just make sure you put the new ROM in with the notch in the same orientation as the current one installed)
WPC95 - MPU board (resized).JPG
1 week later
Quoted from PinJim:I assume all of the original sounds are very compressed, hence the lower quality. At least for the pre-DCS games. DCS is probably compressed too, just not as much. All assumptions on my part.
TZ with DCS or better quality would be an awesome improvement.
Yes it's pretty impressive what they were able to compress onto such a small amount of memory in the pre-DCS machines - I thought I read somewhere that TZ was slated for DCS but it'd didn't make it in time, so it'd be interesting to know what has been retained.
Edit: Rdoyle1978 posted the below just a little earlier on the TZ thread
Granner covered this on a podcast. The sounds were downgraded to 8-bit for inclusion in the code and the original DAT tapes which had the recordings are not availabe (not sure if lost or what). We do have the DCS recordings, but that's just music mainly
Quoted from paynemic:I have a “big” fix suggestion. If my game is current, on IJ the Easter egg frog mode awards 20M but it doesn’t get added to the score. I’m sure there are more. I think I read on ipdb the code was left quite buggy? I don’t think I’ve noticed anything major.
Yes IJ has quite a few bugs, I believe there is an issue with the mine cart bonus. The one I notice often is when you have 2 flashing winged lights, I've read it occurs when you get the Dogfight from Hand of Fate
Quoted from soren:IJ is reported to have a number of bugs.
People also complain about the multiball being an easy repeate. Now there is a couple of ways you can go about this. Like...
1) You need to make other shots besides hitting the drop down to light lock. Like both ramps as someone have suggested to me.
2) The drop targets will pop-up again the first time hit. Second time it will stay down to make the lock.
3) You simply need to make the lock sequence (drops down, lock) more times than three.
So you see, sometimes it is not obvious what modifications to make. And I'll tell you, what looks to work on paper is not always working too well. 1) might be too difficult. It might look fair. But the right ramp on IJ can be tough to make.
The is also the consideration of does it come obvious to the player what to do. And does it feel fair and not as a rip off. Like 3), where you will expect to have made the lock. But it is not. It was only Lock 0 or Lock -1. Conceptually speaking. 1) is also hard to explain with no "Light lock" indicators for the ramps. One of the great challanges designing new rules around excisting playfields. It will have to fit. And I have a rule, that the playfield must always be correct. With no redundencies.
"You have to play a mode first" I've also heard suggestions for, for the 1). But think a little further on that one. It will be start mode, trap up, time out playbook. Not exactly the best solution.
From my experience, I say 2) is the best solution. I might seem buggy, the drop popping up again. But if you add a new sound effect and maybe some DMD work, it will become obvious that, ok, now I need to hit the drop twice to light the lock. The drop is a shot putting the ball in the wild. An additional round around that one it will add significant risk of draining. Maybe just enough to balance the game out. Selfexplanatory and you do not need to make the logic of transporting balls through the subway and Idol lock mech without "locks made" status. Which could be buggy. And will take an efford to test properly.
I like the sound of that, potentially having a setting as to how many times the drops need to fall to enable lock so that you could have it configured as per the original gameplay if you want or you could set it harder or incremental such that after multi-ball you then add 1 to the number of times the drops need to be hit to enable lock.
Question would be if you shot the lock without the drop targets being down (aka "You cheat, Dr Jones") would that reward you with a lock or is that one successful completion of the drops going down?
Quoted from slochar:Nice
I guess this means that sound was left out of the "no attract mode sound" setting.
Correct - even if you turned off attract sound, one of the sounds (metal press stamping??) played
There are 2 patches that are commonly applied - one is the LED ghosting patch (sometimes referred to 8.1) and the other is turning off this attract sound (referred to as 8.2).
Hey soren
Buellxb12r was asking on the Shadow thread how to turn off Buy-in high scores from being displayed in attract mode, which unfortunately they can't. I also know that STTNG has various high score tables shown in attract which I don't believe are used.
Might be worth considering in your updates as to what makes sense - for example disabling Buy-in high scores from showing if Buy-in is disable
Thanks
1 month later
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:STAR TREK - THE NEXT GENERATION
Quickly, I have read ALL 8 pages on this blog, it's great, and some worthwhile modifications are posted about STTNG.
YES, I have what I believe is the latest version, LX-7. And have seen the mysterious L-8 and L-9 in people's machine, but have NO idea what those are.
Here is my SUGGESTION, which may be a more BASIC modification to the game code, than other suggestions.
MORE TIME to fire the cannons! This is a huge problem. The default is like 5 seconds and during multi-ball, using the cannons isn't possible.
Instead of 5 seconds, possibly make the default 30 seconds before the ball is spit out onto the playfield. Then the machine was out in public locations, getting lots of plays was what made money, turnover. The more time someone was playing a single game for a quarter, the less money was being generated.
In a HOME environment, this completely different. With additional mods like adding the Lasers, which are fun to see. OR an inexperienced player doesn't even have time to use the cannons. Two digits of code to change the time. Of course menu selection and stuff would be fantastic, however something basic would make the game way better.
Who wouldn't want more time to aim??? Nobody.
Thoughts?
[quoted image]
The only time the cannons are loaded during actual multiball is Final Frontier and then it's up to you whether you even worry about firing the cannons as you know they'll come out and you're more focused on hitting your shots with the flippers. Or just focus on firing the cannon and let the other balls drain since ball-save is on at the start of multiball.
Also having done some testing I suspect it is not a timer, but rather if the ball hasn't been fired (while "At Mark" is open) then the ball will be fired automatically when "At Mark" closes. It seems to do a much smaller pulse of the cannon coil such that the ball is pushed out of the cannon (rather than being shot out) - I assume this is because it is past the safe range where cannon shots are allowed and by pushing the ball out of the cannon avoids any potential damage being caused. I also tested the cannon on T2 which does exactly the same thing however the "At Mark" range is much narrower being set for a specific bank for 5 targets and again the cannon fires as the "At Mark" switch closes although at full power as it doesn't damage anything.
Quoted from fosaisu:So you’re requesting a “Say YES to Drugs” screen? I could see a market for that ...
Some machines you can change the message in the "Custom Message" adjustment - and the above has been done before. Other machines these messages ("Say no to drugs" and "AIDS is real, protect yourself") were mandated in certain countries and I believe that changing the Country setting (possibly "Export" ??) can remove them.
drug message (resized).jpg 1 month later
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:* If it's a "easy" thing to add a delay to the auto firing cannons after 3 revolutions, it would be fantastic. Currently working on something with will blow people away when they see it. The great plays (not me) won't care, and the others will love it.
I suspect the cannon auto firing is not based on a timer, rather it fires based on the switches (if the ball is still in the cannon when the "At Mark" opens then the cannon is fired).
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Why worries if it makes the game easier?
I have never said I do but I wouldn't be enabling that feature in the settings if the code was changed
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:Do you have your machine on 3 ball, with no buy-in? bet you don't.
LMAO - that's exactly how I have all my machines set up
Quoted from monkfe:Is there a promulgated list of finished code updates on this thread?, or elsewhere?
Post #2 (key post) has the current release of ROMs (which were the initial ones) - as to whether this post will be updated as new releases come out is unclear
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades#post-5967032
1 month later
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:My cannons operate fast; From first activation to final resting, 4.5 seconds! Timed them. I have actually tested the Cannons and switches every way possible. If you "disable" the MARK switch, the Cannon will cycle (3) times without spitting the ball out, then stop. The game will ignore the cannon from then on, until the game is physically restarted.
It has to be a programming code telling the cannons how MANY revolutions or cycles to perform before stopping. Also, some programming which fires the ball (without player intervention). This is a low level coil activation which spits the ball out automatically.
As mentioned, then the MARK switch is removed from the system, more time is given for firing the cannons, UNTIL they are shut down halfway through a revolution.
While I have not seen the code, I suspect that the behaviour is determined by the Mark switch - in standard operation the cannon will be allowed to fire once the Mark which is switched on; then if the Mark switch turns off (as it returns towards home) and the ball is still in the cannon then it will automatically fire the ball. This is very simple coding and doesn't need timers or revolution counters. This is also why when you disabled the Mark switch it puts the cannon into an error state
2 months later
Quoted from Manic:This is not a "new modes" request but I'd happily pay for an updated ROM for the original MM that stops the sound card from resetting after each ball with that loud POP.
Lyman said they did this as a "precaution" for location play but that it wasn't needed so he would remove that bit of code.
Unfortunately WMS then got out of the pin biz and he lost the rights to update the code.
May not bother everybody but hearing that pop after almost every ball kinda spoils the experience.
.
I've never noticed any pop - does it occur after the bonus is added? There is a "dong" played at the start and end of the bonus sequence, is this what you are referring to?
Quoted from metallik:No, there's a sound after the final bonus bong and before the main music loop restarts, usually right before the ball is ejected to the shooter lane. Doesn't happen every ball but at least once a game, usually ball 3 gets it. It's a very quick pop, no bass just the crackle.
I'll have to go play another game and listen for it - damn shame 
2 months later
4 months later
Hi soren - one bug in CFTBL that I've noticed is that if you're working to achieve the 2nd KISS and Sackbar awards you a "F”, is that you miss out on Extra Ball being lit. I haven't yet installed my v5 ROM however from the release notes this isn't listed. I realise that you are probably not going to be revisting CFBTL code anytime soon, however thought I'd let you know in case you are keeping a list of known bugs. Let me know if you need any further details
Quoted from Sehested:A Big Wish for an update to T2 is that when 1 ball is locked in the skull during multi all please raise the drop target which will prevent more balls being locked in the skull. If you lock 2 balls in the skull and 1 elsewhere the machine will go into search mode and finally get 1 ball kicked out of the skull and loaded to the canon. The big issue is if you end up locking all 3 balls in the skull during multiball then the VUP doesn’t have power enough to get 1 ball loaded to the canon. This result in you have to turn off the machine and struggle to get the balls unlocked from the skull.
If it would be possible to ensure drop target is always raised when the skull is loaded all these issues would disappear
What version of code are you running? Not sure which version that enhancement was introduced but it's definitely in the latest rev L-8
In your settings check that Feature Adjustment A2.21 Drop Target Down Multiball is turned off (which is the default)
Note that you can sometimes still end up with multiple balls in the skull, as the drop target can still be knocked down and a second ball can enter before the target is raised again by the game. This is not a software issue but rather a limitation of the mech's design, as the target cannot be locked in the up position.
Quoted from Doc66:soren:
I've been following this thread for some time now, but haven't read all post yet. Would I be totally wrong to hope you're talking about TAF?
The missing ball saver is IMO the only lack in one of the best machines ever. I guess, most of the people would be fine with a simple solution, just feeding the ball back into the shooter lane within the first 10/15/25s. No DMD adaption, no sound file modification, just feeding back (I know, it might not be that easy...)
Best
Rainer
Quoted from Doc66:Final try…
Just as an FYI it's pretty easy to look at what's been mentioned about TAF by searching the thread for "TAF" (it's the Find button at the top of the page) and you can also search if Soren has mentioned TAF - turns out he has https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades/page/5#post-5978461
Hope this helps
Quoted from soren:To clarify.
There is no update to the sound ROMs. But as there are two versions of sound software, as there are two versions of game software, LX-4 and Home-6, it is a matter of matching this when upgrading. So...
If upgrading from LX-4, please ask for "Demolition Man rev. 7.0". The standard sound version.
If upgrading from Home-6, please ask for "Demolition Man (Vulgar Speech) rev. 7.0".
If upgrading from LX-4, but wanting the vulgar speech version, please ask for "Demolition Man (Vulgar Speech) rev. 7.0" WITH the associated sound ROMs as well. Expect this to be at a considerably higher cost. Nine ROM chips in total.
soren or someone with the appropriate privileges - I saw the Demo Man release has been marked a key post, might be good to also mark this one as well
Cheers
3 months later
Quoted from FrankJ:Is there a list of games with updated software available?
Yes the 2nd post on the first page has a full list of updates that have been done - it is marked a key post although the key post title probably should indicate that it contains the updated list of software updates (rather than just the original 4 games that were released)
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades#post-5967032
1 month later
Quoted from PinJim:Where can I find info about any W/B updates that have been made by Planetary Pinball over the past year? I know the CFTBL rooms were updated simply because I owned that game. Any other updates?
The 2nd post on the 1st page has all the s/w updates listed (it’s also listed as a key post). https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades#post-5967032
Quoted from paynemic:I understand. I literally can’t find them anywhere to purchase. If anyone can point out the link that would be amazing. Thanks.
Based on previous posts https://classic-arcades.com/ is able to burn them - just give them a call
I understand that Matts Basement (based on the updated 1st post on this thread and other’s recent posts) is no longer burning ROMs
3 months later
Quoted from ciner8:I finally installed the v2.0 rom for Theatre of Magic, upgrading from from a rom labelled 1.3A.
For instructions, there seems to be a gap between the documentation in the manual and the material provided with the new rom and on this thread. In particular the Adjustments A.2 16 to A.2 20 lack documentation. Is there a place where I can find the documentation, however brief, for these adjustments?
Thanks for any help
Post 2 on the front page of thread has the links to the release notes for each of the updated games, that’ll contain all the new adjustments. TOM 2.0 Release Notes https://dotsandloopspinball.com/rn/Theatre%20Of%20Magic%20rev%2020%20Release%20note.txt
EDIT: Arh I see your issue, yes the original manual listed adjustments up to A.2 15 and it looks like Soren's 2.0 adds A.2 21-24. So I assume that A.2 16-20 adjustments were added by B/W in subsequent code releases after the original manual was produced, yet they are not documented in the release notes of those early updates to the code. And I didn't find any doco IPDB that contains the info you're after. Maybe post a query on the TOM owners club thread and someone might be able to help you out??
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