(Topic ID: 281817)

Official Williams and Bally software upgrades


By soren

3 months ago



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#401 35 days ago

I see the first four titles have been announced, but is there anywhere that shows the next set of titles? How is the decision being made as to which titles will be updated, and what the priority of such will be?

soren will you use the initial post in this thread to provide completed/in the works titles so that we don't have to go searching throughout to find current status (of course I assume you will also post new comments freely as you see fit)?

BTW, if requests are being taken mine would be Getaway using L2 as the foundation.

#402 35 days ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

I see the first four titles have been announced, but is there anywhere that shows the next set of titles? How is the decision being made as to which titles will be updated, and what the priority of such will be?
soren will you use the initial post in this thread to provide completed/in the works titles so that we don't have to go searching throughout to find current status (of course I assume you will also post new comments freely as you see fit)?
BTW, if requests are being taken mine would be Getaway using v2 as the foundation.

Same, checking the info here though it appears as though L-5 was the base version: http://tiltforums.com/t/seeking-knowledge-on-the-getaway-quirkiness-and-oddities/2942/46

If secret mania was fixed, it really only leaves the "Run The Red Light" animation...I might still be tempted to stay on L-2 in that case though >.>

#403 35 days ago

If there's unused animations in earlier revisions I'm sure they could be added back in (if they're still in the codebase).

As for the ongoing debate regarding making stuff "easy", I say the best thing to do is unlock as many parameters as can be unlocked, with the factory default ones being marked in the new adjustments that would let you tweak them. System 11 did this pretty well, where you could use the presets, but then tweak individual values to your liking.

As for the specific controversy regarding the STTNG guns, like was pointed out, it's not a timer. It's a reaction to switches instead, so to change that would require a (presumably new) counter for the # of times that the guns have activated each of the switches. This is one of those cases where I think the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I actively dislike the cannons on STTNG for anything other than shooting the start mission shot at the start of multiball. I almost always do not aim for start mission when available if it's battle simulation, and I almost always choose that mode last if I have a choice. I should probably disable my guns.

I've watched a lot of brand new pinball players play STTNG and none of them grasp even rudimentary rules, let alone subtleties. This is actually true for most games, but at least for the early solid states and EM's, everyone was able to tell me a smattering of correct rules just based on what they saw while playing. More telling, they simply didn't care about complexity. The favorite game for rulesets was 4 Square.... everyone got that you shoot 1-2-3-4, over and over. The could SEE it in the middle of the PF. (The other favorite game was Atlantis (the 1989 one) all the women liked that one for the artwork. No one had any idea of the rules though.)

#404 35 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

So you’re requesting a “Say YES to Drugs” screen? I could see a market for that ...

Like here in Oregon where possession of all drugs has been decriminalized. Crazy world.

#405 35 days ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

BTW, if requests are being taken mine would be Getaway using L2 as the foundation.

About getaway there is one user i will support almost blindly. Mr tantrum.

#406 35 days ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

SUGGESTIONS??
Sound like a lot of frustrated people on here, hating on suggestions to improve a game....for ALL players, experienced or not.
Why not add ALL the best suggestions, instead or worrying if some will be chosen over others. I don't care to see the "Say NO to Drugs" screen, can't we get that turned off???
The menu gives you presets and selections to change the difficulty of the game play, so if you're really good, change those....An adjustment to the length of time to extend the Cannon Shoot time is NOT a new feature, it SHOULD be a setting. (you can turn them off if broke, right). Adding a SETTING is worth doing for LESS experienced players (not referring to me) but family members who decide to enjoy family time.
Game Scores being wrong, heck yeah, fix all of that.. Honestly haven't looked into that, as I am not in competition with anyone.
Anyone ever wonder why the DATA EAST Star Wars has a T-Bar and Button for the launcher?? IT DOES NOTHING. It was for a feature never completed in the program, but it was in the build design and put on the machine. Worthless. Talked the programmer himself. That is a real complaint for a feature never upgraded in the ROMS.
Do you know some Demolition Man machines are suppose to give you higher scores using the handles? Maybe. Not always.
Embrace the diverse suggestions from the diverse people all embracing something great, Pinball, which nearly 10 years ago, died. Feeling of running a person down for suggestions, or saying they are worthless, is a bit selfish.... But I guess we all are sometimes.

Hating??

We're merely pointing out that you're requesting an arbitrary change. Clearly you're not a coder. It's not like Soren just flicks a switch and changes are made, especially on old hardware. The cannon timing is a non issue to most. You're just going to have to live with that. Sorry. Not hating. Just being honest. I'd rather he focus his energy elsewhere.

#407 35 days ago
Quoted from sparksterz:

Same, checking the info here though it appears as though L-5 was the base version: http://tiltforums.com/t/seeking-knowledge-on-the-getaway-quirkiness-and-oddities/2942/46
If secret mania was fixed, it really only leaves the "Run The Red Light" animation...I might still be tempted to stay on L-2 in that case though >.>

Personally, I would be okay with L5 if the "run the red light" display mode was added back (I assume this was taken out purely as a public safety measure, but come on. Who's going to really run a red light just because they are influenced by a display on a pinball machine?) I know L5 has 2-state flippers (assuming you have the hardware) - no biggie to me. It also fixes a couple of bugs in L2: secret mania forgotten ball locks and endless multiball (a rarity for me running L2, but it has occurred). Also, I know that L5 has multi-ball releases from lock during multi-player, but not exactly sure how this plays out in a real game (I rarely play multi-player).

#408 33 days ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Personally, I would be okay with L5 if the "run the red light" display mode was added back (I assume this was taken out purely as a public safety measure, but come on. Who's going to really run a red light just because they are influenced by a display on a pinball machine?)

Yes, please! At an age when the best selling video game is GTA, I hope the cool "run the red light" animated pixels can be put back without too much negative impact

I'm running L2 now and I got twice the infinite multiball in 6 months and this is really a pain! The only way out is to turn off the game.

#409 33 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

Yes, please! At an age when the best selling video game is GTA, I hope the cool "run the red light" animated pixels can be put back without too much negative impact
I'm running L2 now and I got twice the infinite multiball in 6 months and this is really a pain! The only way out is to turn off the game.

It does end eventually.... But yeah it takes so long that the high scores are easily beatable.

#410 33 days ago
Quoted from sparksterz:

It does end eventually.... But yeah it takes so long that the high scores are easily beatable.

It's an underrun so the ballsave becomes 255 seconds. If you don't want to abort the game in progress, trap up (hell, just hold up the flippers til all three balls are cradled) and time out the ballsaver.

#411 32 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

It's an underrun so the ballsave becomes 255 seconds. If you don't want to abort the game in progress, trap up (hell, just hold up the flippers til all three balls are cradled) and time out the ballsaver.

Oooh... thank you for this information, i had no idea. When it happened to me I turned off the machine as I did not want my crazy score to be recorded.

Mathieu

1 week later
#412 23 days ago
Quoted from sparksterz:

If secret mania was fixed, it really only leaves the "Run The Red Light" animation...I might still be tempted to stay on L-2 in that case though >.>

Unfortunetly, there is a bunch of more issues with Getaway. You can get stuch in a gear. Meaning that pulling the lever do not advance to the next gear.

You can also drain with RLM lit. And then it is unlit on next ball.

These are seldom seen problems. That I cannot reproduce at will. And, as with anything else, it can be rooted in faulty switches (as triggering when they should not) and RAM corruption. Problems local to a specific machine. Not general software bugs.

Further field reports are much appreciated.

#413 23 days ago
Quoted from soren:

Unfortunetly, there is a bunch of more issues with Getaway. You can get stuch in a gear. Meaning that pulling the lever do not advance to the next gear.
You can also drain with RLM lit. And then it is unlit on next ball.
These are seldom seen problems. That I cannot reproduce at will. And, as with anything else, it can be rooted in faulty switches (as triggering when they should not) and RAM corruption. Problems local to a specific machine. Not general software bugs.
Further field reports are much appreciated.

As far as my personal experience, I have not once had either of these issues ever occur in the 5+ years I've owned Getaway (running L-2).

#414 23 days ago

Arabian Nights, the modes need to either be adjustable for difficulty or they get more difficult from first completion to the next and so on. Also that yellow target hidden to the right of the genie should be made as a super jackpot during multiball. And maybe a ball save for a few seconds during harem multiball? Mike

#415 23 days ago
Quoted from soren:

Unfortunetly, there is a bunch of more issues with Getaway. You can get stuch in a gear. Meaning that pulling the lever do not advance to the next gear.
You can also drain with RLM lit. And then it is unlit on next ball.
These are seldom seen problems. That I cannot reproduce at will. And, as with anything else, it can be rooted in faulty switches (as triggering when they should not) and RAM corruption. Problems local to a specific machine. Not general software bugs.
Further field reports are much appreciated.

Any updates on work in progress?

#416 23 days ago

following.

Also a +1 for moderate Diner ball save.

#417 23 days ago
Quoted from soren:

You can also drain with RLM lit. And then it is unlit on next ball.

Is this a bug, or a "use it or lose it" situation where you have to cash in on that ball?

Can you begin progress to the next RLM on the next ball if you drain with it lit?

#418 23 days ago

I have not experienced this myself. Hence fishing for at true bug or not?

#419 23 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

Is this a bug, or a "use it or lose it" situation where you have to cash in on that ball?
Can you begin progress to the next RLM on the next ball if you drain with it lit?

No, red line mania can be lit and you'll still have the opportunity to enter the mode on subsequent balls. I suspect a lot of these bugs can appear with multiple players, but yeah I've never seen it myself on L-2 with just one player.

1 week later
#420 13 days ago

Sttng has one huge issue that needs to be fixed and then the game will be perfect in my eyes.

Make the video mode random.

That is all

#421 13 days ago

soren Would you mind elaborating on what this means for the L5 CFTBL ROM?

"Feature adjustement A.2 3 "Multiball" is of no use.
At least as of rev. L-4, the game is not awarding multiball at the Snack bar mystery."

Does this mean L-5 does award Multiball at the Snackbar mystery? I haven't gotten it as a reward yet, but I was just curious if this was implemented. My understanding was that this is a non-reward, similar to the New Car that are never awarded and are just used to tease the player.

However, a New Car reward would be pretty cool for L-6. When you hold both flipper buttons in the Easter egg would be to drive over the Snackbar attendant.

#422 12 days ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Sttng has one huge issue that needs to be fixed and then the game will be perfect in my eyes.

Make the video mode random.

Hmmm. I am not so sure. And that is because I see video mode in a larger perspective. What does it bring to the gameplay. Does it work well in the flow and for the time it takes to play and how difficult it is to understand. How does it work strategically for points.

STTNG video mode works a bit like IJ. With the latter being random. And considerably more difficult. And the IJ one does not even have the bombs.

I still stand on the STTNG one suffers mainly for being too easily restartable. To me that is death to a video mode element because video mode is safe points.

#423 12 days ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Would you mind elaborating on what this means for the L5 CFTBL ROM?

It means, that the options for that adjustment is of no function. It is simply taken out of the design at some point. You see that in other games as well. Feature adjustments that was later scrapped but are still in. And some that do not work.

BTW. You cannot have a general "Multiball" random awards on a game without auto plunger. For CFTBL at most it could mean multilball ready to start.

#424 12 days ago
Quoted from soren:

It means, that the options for that adjustment is of no function. It is simply taken out of the design at some point. You see that in other games as well. Feature adjustments that was later scrapped but are still in. And some that do not work.
BTW. You cannot have a general "Multiball" random awards on a game without auto plunger. For CFTBL at most it could mean multilball ready to start.

you can have an 2 ball one at an mystery. Just launch an ball and wait for 1st switch hit to kick ball from mystery.
CFTBL has ball saver.

#425 12 days ago
Quoted from soren:

Hmmm. I am not so sure. And that is because I see video mode in a larger perspective. What does it bring to the gameplay. Does it work well in the flow and for the time it takes to play and how difficult it is to understand. How does it work strategically for points.
STTNG video mode works a bit like IJ. With the latter being random. And considerably more difficult. And the IJ one does not even have the bombs.
I still stand on the STTNG one suffers mainly for being too easily restartable. To me that is death to a video mode element because video mode is safe points.

force poker mode

#426 12 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

force poker mode

Have a setting for Max number of shuttle runs. After that it doesn't light.

#427 12 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Have a setting for Max number of shuttle runs. After that it doesn't light.

or disable video mode

#428 11 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

or disable video mode

Max video modes=0 would do that easily. Although this also has to tag into the light holodeck on the launch shot so something would have to replace that.

#429 9 days ago

Could I put in a request for an official rom that lets one turn off the attract sounds in T2?

Does anyone know if the 8.1 hack at IPDB is safe to use on a “real” machine?

#430 9 days ago

Is there a plan to release the tournament roms you already have for games like Mousin Around? There must be at least 15 games that have tournament roms for them that you created but only see about 4 that are officially released.

#431 9 days ago
Quoted from spblat:

Could I put in a request for an official rom that lets one turn off the attract sounds in T2?
Does anyone know if the 8.1 hack at IPDB is safe to use on a “real” machine?

Yes, I have it installed on mine and the “boom boom” is gone and it’s great!

#432 8 days ago

Hi, I made a tilt audio sound card and I have an error on startup. I have TAFG, TZ, TOM and cpu check if sound card is present but tilt audio have a raspberry which booting fast but not instantly and don’t respond checksum. So there is an error.
Is it possible to modify rom for disable this check on boot? Or modify to add a setting to choose boot check enable/disable.
Perhaps a patcher...

The tilt audio works perfectly after.

#433 8 days ago

Another scoring calculation bug for NGG: I have my ‘special’ set up to award 1M. When this is achieved, no amount is added to the score

#434 8 days ago
Quoted from tilt-master:

Another scoring calculation bug for NGG: I have my ‘special’ set up to award 1M. When this is achieved, no amount is added to the score

This reminds me of a pet peeve of mine. I completely understand the reason for disabling extra balls for tournaments, but why do they (especially on B/W games) make the point "novelty" award for so low a value? It messes up the goal/reward structure.

If a shot/combination/sequence was worthy of an extra ball normally, then in a tournament it should be worth a significant number of points - at least something worth shooting for - not some barely noticeable amount.

#435 8 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

This reminds me of a pet peeve of mine. I completely understand the reason for disabling extra balls for tournaments, but why do they (especially on B/W games) make the point "novelty" award for so low a value? It messes up the goal/reward structure.
If a shot/combination/sequence was worthy of an extra ball normally, then in a tournament it should be worth a significant number of points - at least something worth shooting for - not some barely noticeable amount.

don't most WPC games give 0 for EB's (some even auto spot light EB mode) when maxed but DE / SEGA / STERN give points.

#436 8 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

you can have an 2 ball one at an mystery. Just launch an ball and wait for 1st switch hit to kick ball from mystery.
CFTBL has ball saver.

Of course. You are absolutely right.

#437 8 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

This reminds me of a pet peeve of mine. I completely understand the reason for disabling extra balls for tournaments, but why do they (especially on B/W games) make the point "novelty" award for so low a value? It messes up the goal/reward structure.

Pinball machines are historically made under hugh workload and time pressure. Not in production for very long. And once off the line, more or less abandoned by the company in terms of support and bug fixes.

We are lucky, that pingames are build to the quality they have all matters considered. And for that we can thank the truly passionate developers and designers.

So, bugs and unwise design and messy stuff slipped through. And especially when deviating from the primary design goal. Which was standard configuration for public coin play. Simply because this was the most tested and the basis of the most field reports. Novelty mode is for regions where awarding credits and extra ball was considered illegal gambling.

#438 7 days ago
Quoted from soren:

Pinball machines are historically made under hugh workload and time pressure. Not in production for very long. And once off the line, more or less abandoned by the company in terms of support and bug fixes.
We are lucky, that pingames are build to the quality they have all matters considered. And for that we can thank the truly passionate developers and designers.
So, bugs and unwise design and messy stuff slipped through. And especially when deviating from the primary design goal. Which was standard configuration for public coin play. Simply because this was the most tested and the basis of the most field reports. Novelty mode is for regions where awarding credits and extra ball was considered illegal gambling.

Not to diminish the effort that is/was put into these games (having worked in the video game industry for 20 years, I understand all about workload and time pressure), setting the extra ball point value to something more reasonable does not seem like much additional work. Seems like it would be far less work than is done for other tournament mode issues (such as removing "random" awards and such).

I realize this is not a huge deal, just something that has always bothered me. I'm not trying to impugn anyone's work ethic or anything, just trying to make a suggestion for future improvement.

#439 6 days ago

Oh I agree. It is not a hugh deal to refine scoring in terms of implementing it in the code. Which is also why say, that I believe, that stuff like points for extra ball and special etc. is uneven or even absent on some games is because it was simply not in the main thought process. Some of it might have been the case of "we set it to x and figure it out later". And then never got around to it again.

Some games even award 0 points for extra ball when off or exceeded the max. Why? Why not just mask off lighting the EB lamp in the first place. Like some other games do. Well, it might exactly be a case of ... we do it later.

#440 6 days ago

Soren, is there a timeline/schedule of specific releases?

#441 5 days ago
Quoted from soren:

Oh I agree. It is not a hugh deal to refine scoring in terms of implementing it in the code. Which is also why say, that I believe, that stuff like points for extra ball and special etc. is uneven or even absent on some games is because it was simply not in the main thought process. Some of it might have been the case of "we set it to x and figure it out later". And then never got around to it again.
Some games even award 0 points for extra ball when off or exceeded the max. Why? Why not just mask off lighting the EB lamp in the first place. Like some other games do. Well, it might exactly be a case of ... we do it later.

In video modes on some games EB is replaced with BS when at max or EB's set to 0

BS = Big Score

#442 4 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Soren, is there a timeline/schedule of specific releases?

I am reluctant to promise such. But I can promise that there will be more stuff coming. Much more.

I'd hoped for having something ready by now. But current events causes a delay. And are in general trouble for going places to test new stuff.

#443 2 days ago
Quoted from soren:

I am reluctant to promise such. But I can promise that there will be more stuff coming. Much more.
I'd hoped for having something ready by now. But current events causes a delay. And are in general trouble for going places to test new stuff.

Instead of posting a schedule, perhaps you could just show a list of titles you are working on/considering, without promising any dates or priority, just so we know what games are in the loop.

If possible, that would be awesome!

#444 2 days ago

Yes. And once you give us the title list we are going to post every 15 minutes and ask if you are done yet.....

#445 9 hours ago

SOREN, STTNG

Anything you decide to do for the Star Trek, Next Generation, I will purchase from you. Because of your experience, judgement, time and effort improving this classic machine, will only make it better. I'm keeping my machine and will continue to enhance and improve it.

I am not a coder or programmer, so I can't imagine the hours and hours it takes, however hopefully speaking for everyone, and their machines, you are appreciated.

STTNG
* If it's a "easy" thing to add a delay to the auto firing cannons after 3 revolutions, it would be fantastic. Currently working on something with will blow people away when they see it. The great plays (not me) won't care, and the others will love it.
* I understand the are worthwhile issues to be addressed with the scoring and rewarding of gameplay....sounds great.
* Not sure if it's been addressed in the 9 pages of this blog, but is there a software issue when a ball gets lost (NO guys, all the optos everywhere have been replaced, including 90% of all the boards. It's not that, just a flaky thing I have seen. Maybe it's my machine...ok

anyway, thats my 2 cents. Thank you for reading this, and keeping pinball GREAT!

154719499_10226515021761326_4843147460346241911_o (resized).jpg
#446 9 hours ago
Quoted from Eric_Manuel:

* If it's a "easy" thing to add a delay to the auto firing cannons after 3 revolutions, it would be fantastic. Currently working on something with will blow people away when they see it. The great plays (not me) won't care, and the others will love it.

I suspect the cannon auto firing is not based on a timer, rather it fires based on the switches (if the ball is still in the cannon when the "At Mark" opens then the cannon is fired).

#447 4 hours ago
Quoted from Manny65:

I suspect the cannon auto firing is not based on a timer, rather it fires based on the switches (if the ball is still in the cannon when the "At Mark" opens then the cannon is fired).

This has been discussed. He just wants it to be easier. Plenty of people said not to screw with it because they like it how it is...

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