(Topic ID: 281817)

Official Williams and Bally software upgrades

By soren

1 year ago


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#201 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Dredd would be great.

OMG Dredd would be the perfect game for this!

I literally only want two things for my Dredd:

- New ROM Code that integrates the Dead World Locking mod of L-1 with the bug fixes/ball shooter logic of L-7. The current L1-AT ROM solution is too much of a compromise as it locks the game to Free Play only

- A complete Pinsound orchestration including new voices and SFX! I've done a few Pinsound mixes of Dredd myself (and have uploaded them to the Pinsound community website) but I've never seen one that includes new voices and special effects.

And, if I lived in a perfect world (super duper bonus wish)
- for the SuperGame mode to be completely re-coded to allow for a whole new game play experience, and maybe not so multi ball heavy.

Anyone want to make my day! haha

#202 1 year ago
Quoted from Seirif:

soren Would be great if we could get 1.06 Judge Dredd code w/ the Deadworld "Mod" added back in.
Also, I'm a software engineer and offering to help for free however I can for any games. PM me if interested.
Thanks!

OMG Dredd would be the perfect game for this!

I literally only want two things for my Dredd:

- New ROM Code that integrates the Dead World Locking mod of L-1 with the bug fixes/ball shooter logic of L-7. The current L1-AT ROM solution is too much of a compromise as it locks the game to Free Play only

- A complete Pinsound orchestration including new voices and SFX! I've done a few Pinsound mixes of Dredd myself (and have uploaded them to the Pinsound community website) but I've never seen one that includes new voices and special effects.

And, if I lived in a perfect world (super duper bonus wish)
- for the SuperGame mode to be completely re-coded to allow for a whole new game play experience, and maybe not so multi ball heavy.

Anyone want to make my day! haha

#203 1 year ago
Quoted from Billy16:

Bad news on CFTBL, the new ROM does not work well with the MikeD mod. It randomly turns off the video screen altogether rather than cueing up the next video as it should. Maybe it is just my game but the video worked perfectly before the ROM swap. It confused the heck out of it, as it took awhile for the video to trigger correctly every time after I put the old ROM back in. Seems to be back to normal now, I hope this can be fixed--love to have the new code.

I bet it has to do with this change:

The lamp matrix procedure is upgraded to better prevent "ghosting" when LED lamps are used.

PinballMikeD mentioned in another thread that his mod reads the lamp matrix, so if they lamp matrix signals now behave differently this could explain the video triggering issues. Is there not a new adjustment in the v5 ROM to disable the "upgraded" LED lamp code?

#204 1 year ago
Quoted from PPS:

wayne at mrpinball.com.au

Appreciate the option but i suspect you will find many of us are happy to pay extra to tip the programmer a bit ( support the artist you might say).

#205 1 year ago

Regarding the MikeD mod for Creature. A quick read up shows that it takes input from the lamp matrix. I will assume this is why it is acting different with rev. 5.0 now this is update to the "LED friendly" procedure 2.

I will be back later with an analysis of this and documentation for how it works now. And I have to say, that it should not be a problem to build devices that can interpret the lamp signals correnctly regardless if the game software is running procedure 1 or 2. So I hope my documentation will make it straight forward for somebody to update the MikeD mod to run stable on all games. If I have understood it correctly, the original designer of the mod has abandon the project. But it is now maintained by somebody else in the community.

PS. wiredoug, thank you.

#206 1 year ago

No Fear “Pay back time” score exploit fix. That would be great!

#207 1 year ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

Would love to see the add on of "Loop Champion " on No Fear j

....Loop and Jump Champion. Add more detail to Video Mode. Ball save timers are wildly inconsistent.

#208 1 year ago

Yes, No fear is way too easy.
It needs some new balancing of points.(I guess i need to play some more games to be able to be more specific about that..)
Thumbs up for Loop und Jump Champion.

Quoted from Gorgar666:

....Loop and Jump Champion. Add more detail to Video Mode. Ball save timers are wildly inconsistent.

#209 1 year ago

One thing i would highly appreciate would be a ball save on TAF Gold Version, especially in multiball

This would support a better "luck/still balance"

Thanks Soren for your great work on this !!
Regards from Germany

#210 1 year ago

BoP big wheel awards for tournament play. It would be nice to shut the 1B off and make it a 10M score each time you make two balls up to the 4th face.

There's other glitchy stuff in that game but it's mostly to do with attract mode stuff or music cutting out when a ball is locked when you drain your last ball.

#212 1 year ago
Quoted from Jim-Beam:

One thing i would highly appreciate would be a ball save on TAF Gold Version, especially in multiball

I don't think that will really work since TAF has no auto-launch mechanism. "Saved" balls would back up into the shooter lane.

#213 1 year ago

This works in Episode 1 like a charm

#214 1 year ago
Quoted from Jim-Beam:

This works in Episode 1 like a charm

But that has an auto-launcher, correct?

#215 1 year ago

You cannot have ball saver in multiball on a game with no auto plunger.

The concept in games before auto plunger was common was multiball re-start rather. Which I in many ways like a lot better than ball saver. And TAF has that.

#216 1 year ago

Can you give us any clues on what the next games you will be working on ?

#217 1 year ago
Quoted from mollyspub:

Can you give us any clues on what the next games you will be working on ?

Theatre of Magic with different rule to the THEATRE objective. Basement awards in competition to help on modes and Midnight. 100% outlane ball save. No false Trunk error. And a bit more.

#218 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

But that has an auto-launcher, correct?

no, only RFM has that

#219 1 year ago
Quoted from soren:

You cannot have ball saver in multiball on a game with no auto plunger.
The concept in games before auto plunger was common was multiball re-start rather. Which I in many ways like a lot better than ball saver. And TAF has that.

I understand, but a normal ball save(after ball in game start) would be nice to have...
take me as a beta tester

#220 1 year ago
Quoted from soren:

You cannot have ball saver in multiball on a game with no auto plunger.
The concept in games before auto plunger was common was multiball re-start rather. Which I in many ways like a lot better than ball saver. And TAF has that.

I beg to differ.

WCS, BK2000 - not ball-savers, but continuous multiball. But same principle.
- If ball in trough, and no ball in shooter, eject. Otherwsie, do nothing. Check repeatedly.

#221 1 year ago

Wowza very cool news...

#223 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

WCS, BK2000 - not ball-savers, but continuous multiball. But same principle.

...and TOTAN.

Not quite multiballs (like TAF). Those examples are more like timed modes with infinite ball saver. Where a ball at rest in the shooter lane is acceptable players choice.

#224 1 year ago
Quoted from JediPimp:

New ROM Code that integrates the Dead World Locking mod of L-1 with the bug fixes/ball shooter logic of L-7. The current L1-AT ROM solution is too much of a compromise as it locks the game to Free Play only

Quoted from JediPimp:

for the SuperGame mode to be completely re-coded to allow for a whole new game play experience, and maybe not so multi ball heavy.

I agree with both of these. I have held off on the Dead World Locking because of the L-7 bug fixes. Also, I don't like playing the SuperGame mode because it seems excessive and I would rather earn my multi-balls. I only do it once in a while to keep the game working (I had an issue once that was related to never playing a supergame (according to a pinside thread I can't seem to find now), locking up the game. It was resolved after I played a SuperGame, so I do that every now and again. If that is true and a bug, fixing that would work for me

#225 1 year ago
Quoted from schudel5:

BoP big wheel awards for tournament play. It would be nice to shut the 1B off and make it a 10M score each time you make two balls up to the 4th face.
There's other glitchy stuff in that game but it's mostly to do with attract mode stuff or music cutting out when a ball is locked when you drain your last ball.

you can change the % for the 1B 99 makes it happen all the time.

#226 1 year ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

you can change the % for the 1B 99 makes it happen all the time.

It doesn't. Even if I change it to 1% the 1B happens. Can't have that uncertainty in a tournament. I have a couple different ROM versions and it's the same on all of them.

#227 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I don't think that will really work since TAF has no auto-launch mechanism. "Saved" balls would back up into the shooter lane.

Just make it like CFTBL. Ball save for single ball but no ball save for MB.

#228 1 year ago
Quoted from soren:

...and TOTAN.
Not quite multiballs (like TAF). Those examples are more like timed modes with infinite ball saver. Where a ball at rest in the shooter lane is acceptable players choice.

I will ask this out of ignorance of how the code itself works, but a possible angle on what some would call a ball save/autosave/etc....

I know on Addams (assuming would also apply to Gold?) , there is what I refer to as an "autosave" where you get the ball back in the shooter lane, however it only works if it is a super fast drain, does not touch a single target/switch, and I want to say also player not hitting the flipper buttons. Not sure if that's a feature or a glitch, but could that possibly be tweaked to add a timer or something more useful?

#229 1 year ago
Quoted from Meloyelo51:

what I refer to as an "autosave" where you get the ball back in the shooter lane, however it only works if it is a super fast drain, does not touch a single target/switch, and I want to say also player not hitting the flipper buttons.

That is “playfield validation”. Typically a table will not end the ball until three switches are hit. The thinking is there was probably an error and somehow the ball didn’t get played. Modern games often have specific switches that validate the playfield automatically no matter how many switches have been hit.

Cayle George is legendary for figuring out playfield validation exploits.

#230 1 year ago
Quoted from soren:

...and TOTAN.
Not quite multiballs (like TAF). Those examples are more like timed modes with infinite ball saver. Where a ball at rest in the shooter lane is acceptable players choice.

Egh, i don't see it as an infinite ball save - for example, WCS (I don't know TOTAN, heh!), you don't start it until balls are locked, so when the mode starts, you start with three balls. Same with BK2K, where the game 'captures' one ball, and then when you shoot the second ball into play, it releases the first ball. Any balls than then drain are serves back until you are down to one ball.

Yes - this allows for 'cheating' - one ball on the field while one is in the shooter lane. But on WCS, I don't think it's timed. (BK2K is, as far as I remember.)

It's been a (longish) while since I played these games, I could be mis-remembering - but I see it as a technical ball-saver-without-auto-launcher.

#231 1 year ago

NO FEAR... the skull jackpot is 200,000 Then the Skydive jackpot is 200,000... the Super Jackpot at the jump is the same! SuperJackpot should have a bigger value ?

#232 1 year ago

It is not worth a larger debate for me. But I'll say, that to me there is a different between a timed mode that runs with an infinite ball saver, if you will, or we can call it: keeps (re-)serving balls to the plunger lane or the playfield. And then the traditional (lock) multiball. Where multiple balls are served and the mode ends when you are back on single ball play.

#233 1 year ago

Hi Soren
Thank you for all the great works
Hope prolonged ball save during all the TZ multi-balls are in your project list.

#234 1 year ago

Thanks soren for the CFTBL CPU ROM update which I received today (Nov. 24). I just updated my game and the upgrade went off without a hitch. After replacing the CFTBL CPU ROM chip it took 5 minutes or so to go through all of the settings and adjustments to set everything back to my liking.

High scores were wiped out as expected, but they are easy enough to re-establish and it also gives new players something to shoot for since the default high scores are pretty easy to beat. I played a handful of test games and established 2 new high scores and the new CPU ROM seems to function perfectly.

The CPU ROM update was purchased from Matt's Basement Arcade and was professionally labelled and shipped out very quickly after being ordered late on the evening of Nov. 19.

Gord

#235 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I don't think that will really work since TAF has no auto-launch mechanism. "Saved" balls would back up into the shooter lane.

"ball saves" existed without auto launch in many games. Maverick is but one example. Also the "home" Whitewater ROM does it just fine. Code simply doesn't launch a ball to the shooter lane if there is one already there.... also back when pinball mostly had Physical locks, instead of an overload of mostly lacklustre imaginary ones... Many games have no auto launch, and a ball save feature.

Many of my fave games don't use "virtual locks" ... they just seem "cheap" somehow to me.

#236 1 year ago
Quoted from GRB1959:

The CPU ROM update was purchased from Matt's Basement Arcade and was professionally labelled and shipped out very quickly after being ordered.

Just got mine from Matt's Basement Arcade today as well - ordered in the evening Nov 19th. Will put it in over the holiday weekend.

#237 1 year ago
Quoted from JediPimp:

.... The current L1-AT ROM solution is too much of a compromise as it locks the game to Free Play only ...

Mainly this for me ... My older games all have out dated code and no usefull recent updates available purely due to no coin-op option

The "home updates" are completely pointless for my application, as my games all go on coinop rotation. They're still comercial machines, and great piles of games are Not "home use" machines.

People whom do not own pinball machines (site players) shouldn't have to miss out on these Awesome code updates!

#238 1 year ago

I would love to see an updated Judge Dredd rom. The Deadworld mod is just too cool not to have installed, especially with the excellent crane mod by Davi, but the L1AT rom certainly needs help. Here's hoping it is on soren's list!

#239 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

The "home updates" are completely pointless for my application, as my games all go on coinop rotation. They're still comercial machines, and great piles of games are Not "home use" machines.

Home ROM / Free play only was a defined status they made as an option for releases they did not want in commercial use. So, they a pointless, yeah that is the point.

As a company Williams wanted their product to be stable on location and not cause any trouble for the operator or the owners of the places the machines were put. So "home" status was a way for the developers to make revs. that were not fully tested for street use. Or were made for adult ears or with custom audio, that was not suitable for street use.

#240 1 year ago
Quoted from soren:

Home ROM / Free play only was a defined status they made as an option for releases they did not want in commercial use. So, they a pointless, yeah that is the point.
As a company Williams wanted their product to be stable on location and not cause any trouble for the operator or the owners of the places the machines were put. So "home" status was a way for the developers to make revs. that were not fully tested for street use. Or were made for adult ears or with custom audio, that was not suitable for street use.

Does that mean we will get any updates and bug-fixes for coin-op, though ?

#241 1 year ago

Another vote for Judge Dredd and getting the Dead World locking from L1-AT merged with the bug fixes and ball logic of L7. Thanks for all your work!!

#242 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Does that mean we will get any updates and bug-fixes for coin-op, though ?

No. There is no plan to release anything with Free play only restriction.

#243 1 year ago

I vote for NGG 18 holes fix, if it is possible!

Thanks a lot Soren for your outstanding work and devotion.

Cheers,

Chris

#244 1 year ago

Good to see that there are more people who like the ball save idea for older games. If you touch these games you may remember this conversation and consider to implement it with a adjustment option to switch it on/off

anyway, great to see that the codes get a refreshment

#245 1 year ago
Quoted from soren:

No. There is no plan to release anything with Free play only restriction.

If it wasn't for the "No"... the rest of the sentence seemed to mean yes.

Anyway If coin op isn't available for updates it's a great shame, because half the pinball players, including me, will still miss out. ...

#246 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

"ball saves" existed without auto launch in many games. Maverick is but one example. Also the "home" Whitewater ROM does it just fine. Code simply doesn't launch a ball to the shooter lane if there is one already there.... also back when pinball mostly had Physical locks, instead of an overload of mostly lacklustre imaginary ones... Many games have no auto launch, and a ball save feature.
Many of my fave games don't use "virtual locks" ... they just seem "cheap" somehow to me.

You missed the whole point of the discussion. It wasn't that you can't have ball saves without an auto-plunger. It's that you can't have MULTI-BALL autosave without an auto-plunger.

At worst, the saved balls will back up into the shooter lane. At best, a player could exploit that by intentionally allowing the balls to drain and then plunge single balls - playing multi ball modes with essentially one ball in play at a time.

Maybe you could come up with some weird rule that if there is a "saved" ball in the shooter lane then no other switches will score points or something (and try to explain that to a newbie player somehow), but there are probably ways to exploit that in some way too.

Obviously, in single ball play, there can be ball saves without an auto-plunger. Almost every SS machine made would essentially "ball save" if you scored zero points on a ball. Multi-ball is a different situation.

And if you notice, with your example of Whitewater, the ball save from the home ROM does not work in multi-ball. As soren said, the standard was to do a multi-ball "restart" mode - which is what Whitewater does.

#247 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

You missed the whole point of the discussion. It wasn't that you can't have ball saves without an auto-plunger. It's that you can't have MULTI-BALL autosave without an auto-plunger.
At worst, the saved balls will back up into the shooter lane. At best, a player could exploit that by intentionally allowing the balls to drain and then plunge single balls - playing multi ball modes with essentially one ball in play at a time.
Maybe you could come up with some weird rule that if there is a "saved" ball in the shooter lane then no other switches will score points or something (and try to explain that to a newbie player somehow), but there are probably ways to exploit that in some way too.
Obviously, in single ball play, there can be ball saves without an auto-plunger. Almost every SS machine made would essentially "ball save" if you scored zero points on a ball. Multi-ball is a different situation.
And if you notice, with your example of Whitewater, the ball save from the home ROM does not work in multi-ball. As soren said, the standard was to do a multi-ball "restart" mode - which is what Whitewater does.

TOTAN does this well when battling the Genie.

#248 1 year ago

Is Williams Cyclone going to be updated?

#249 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

TOTAN does this well when battling the Genie.

I haven't played TOTAN in a long time. How does it handle ball saves in multi-ball?

#250 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

If it wasn't for the "No"... the rest of the sentence seemed to mean yes. Anyway If coin op isn't available for updates it's a great shame, because half the pinball players, including me, will still miss out. ...

C'mon now, don't harass the man. You raised a good point about support for location play, but he's now addressed it. "There is no plan to release anything with Free play only restriction" plainly means that the new roms are all intended to be coin-op friendly. Why not move on to discussing games you'd like to see updates for and what fixes/tweaks would be most appreciated?

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