(Topic ID: 281817)

Official Williams and Bally software upgrades

By soren

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 days ago by mollyspub
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12 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 969 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 20.
#851 1 year ago
Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

Letting the ball past that flipper is not intended to be safe, but on some it is. so people who aren't confident at the swamp will usually try it. Having done so, they shouldn't be penalized for not finding out that it's not safe to do so.

There are plenty of risky bounces, ejects, kickouts, etc on all machines that folks have to learn either by pre-playing the game (practice time or earlier matches), watching other players play or figuring it out themselves. Do you also want a ballsave on the right eject in case someone tries a dead bounce and it fails? No reason to carve out a code exception for the UL flipper. Shoot the swamp or risk the left outlane, up to you.

Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

But I got an 80 million+ party multiball champion score in pinball fx, and i did it with repeated high wire ramp shots, and was able to trap up between them

I had a CV for years and never exploited this. The feed from the right habitrail on a real game is quite random and not very trappable at all. Not sure rule changes should be proposed based on virtual pinball exploits...

#852 1 year ago

We are very close and figured out that the problem 255 is caused by two striked targets (5-target bank) and some other circumstances. And there are three other issues that will be fixed with the next release, as well as some coding that is obsolet and will be deleted.

#853 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:

There are plenty of risky bounces, ejects, kickouts, etc on all machines that folks have to learn either by pre-playing the game (practice time or earlier matches), watching other players play or figuring it out themselves. Do you also want a ballsave on the right eject in case someone tries a dead bounce and it fails? No reason to carve out a code exception for the UL flipper. Shoot the swamp or risk the left outlane, up to you.

That's why I said only ONCE. That particular one is an unusual case because many TAFs on location are now physically modded to remove that problem by lowering the inlane/outlane divider top, and others it's just not ever a problem on, for whatever reason.

As for CV, how about the right orbit? If i couldn't exploit the ramp, that would be my next goto shot, since it is likely to be insta-catchable as well. Does that go up the acrobat ramp in party mulitball? At least the option should be there as a a difficulty thing, like it is in Gladiators. We all know how that went.

I'm well aware that there are exploits that exist on paper that are often quite hard to actually do in practice, like Shadow's 2 way combo. On the other hand, we have stuff like Earthshaker's center ramp, gladiators calm before the storm, and WHO Dunnit's quite exploitable super skillshot trickery. i tend to get really scared when i'm not player 4, and player four is able to trap up and repeat a shot usefully.

I would have never believed someone could exploit rescue 911 multiball and shoot emergency room all day for giant jackpots until i saw it happen. Could i do it? no. But this guy had the emergency room shot from a trap on the upper right flipper DIALED IN, at least 90% of the time. And the feed to the upper right flipper from the right ramp and the feed from emergency room to the lower right flipper were both hold trappable, as is normal for Premier games with those flippers.

#854 1 year ago
Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

That's why I said only ONCE. That particular one is an unusual case because many TAFs on location are now physically modded to remove that problem by lowering the inlane/outlane divider top, and others it's just not ever a problem on, for whatever reason.

"Once" would be even more of a PITA to program, and is pointless anyway because the player can look at the machine, see if the divider is low or high and choose whether or not to flip away. This simply isn't an issue worth fixing.

Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

As for CV, how about the right orbit? If i couldn't exploit the ramp, that would be my next goto shot, since it is likely to be insta-catchable as well. Does that go up the acrobat ramp in party mulitball?

Have you ever played a real CV? I owned one, and despite jpop's supposed reputation, it's a pretty clunky game. Rt. orbit is a PITA to hit, oftentimes lacks momentum to even make it up to the habitrail, and if it does the habitrail dumps to the playfield randomly and not very catchable. It's difficult to trap much of anything here because WPC95 flippers don't go very high. Again, this isn't an issue on real hardware.

Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

And the feed to the upper right flipper from the right ramp and the feed from emergency room to the lower right flipper were both hold trappable, as is normal for Premier games with those flippers.

This is much more legit due to (as you say) Premier's trap-o-matic flippers. CV flippers are much different if they're rebuilt properly.

#855 1 year ago
Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

we have stuff like Earthshaker's center ramp

I would not be a fan of shots that are not scoring anything - you're shooting something, you should get some score. Maybe end of the road doesn't need to be 200k.... maybe once you reach end of the road, you get ONE 200k.... then just the normal score. (After all, there's only ONE end once you reach the END of the road.... why should it keep scoring that high bonus?)

It's way out of proportion to the jackpot sizes on ES too, 5 safe shots for a million, vs. chaotic multiball where you can get ONE jackpot and then you almost have to just loop end of the road to do something. Long been on my list and even gathered ideas several years ago on what would happen after multiball.

There's also some bugs listed in the ES owner's thread.

The way tournaments usually address the center ramp is to put honking big rubbers on the ramp entrance.... that's no fun.

Maybe make the 2 mile advance not light on every inlane? Unless it's printed on the playfield... then you almost have to do it.

#856 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

I would not be a fan of shots that are not scoring anything - you're shooting something, you should get some score. Maybe end of the road doesn't need to be 200k.... maybe once you reach end of the road, you get ONE 200k.... then just the normal score. (After all, there's only ONE end once you reach the END of the road.... why should it keep scoring that high bonus?)
It's way out of proportion to the jackpot sizes on ES too, 5 safe shots for a million, vs. chaotic multiball where you can get ONE jackpot and then you almost have to just loop end of the road to do something. Long been on my list and even gathered ideas several years ago on what would happen after multiball.
There's also some bugs listed in the ES owner's thread.
The way tournaments usually address the center ramp is to put honking big rubbers on the ramp entrance.... that's no fun.
Maybe make the 2 mile advance not light on every inlane? Unless it's printed on the playfield... then you almost have to do it.

Actually they usually introduce flipper hop on the left flipper to make it frigging impossible to loop that ramp. And i've seen CVs set up with a left lean just to make SURE you can't trap up after highwire and shoot it again easily.

The thing is, you are intended to be able to loop that ramp somewhat. But the reward for ignoring the lit captive ball and just plugging away at it more is just too good. My base fix idea is to make it so you can't keep racking up miles after you've hit it enough times. Enough is defined as enough times to max out the captive ball worst case. You should get all the miles from doing that, but then you should take a break and whack the captive ball to light quick multiball. Even when miles/end of the road is disabled due to too many consecutive shots, it would still advance the captive ball, and do everything else it does.

Whirlwind, addams family, and twilight zone all have similar rules where maxing out the counter gives a significant point reward for continuing to loop it. of the following games, only whirlwind does this ever happen in a good game on non tournament conditions. Super robots and super bear kicks rarely happen even in normal arcade conditions, much less in a tournament.

#857 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:

"Once" would be even more of a PITA to program, and is pointless anyway because the player can look at the machine, see if the divider is low or high and choose whether or not to flip away. This simply isn't an issue worth fixing.

Soren agreed with me on this particular call, if you note. Usually it's not something worth bothering with, but people who've never had this happen to them despite playing on normal TAF machines will vastly appreciate that lone save when it kicks in, and the warning to not do it again.

#858 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:

Have you ever played a real CV? I owned one, and despite jpop's supposed reputation, it's a pretty clunky game. Rt. orbit is a PITA to hit, oftentimes lacks momentum to even make it up to the habitrail, and if it does the habitrail dumps to the playfield randomly and not very catchable. It's difficult to trap much of anything here because WPC95 flippers don't go very high. Again, this isn't an issue on real hardware.

Funny, here's a real CV game.

And oddly enough, a lot of insta catching with the black flipper rubbers. the linked time is one off of the acrobats, and it happens just like in FX. Still think my concern is theoretical?

It's not a fluke, either.

actually i forgot that the boom balloon blocks that orbit during party multiball. That's probably WHY it blocks that orbit. because of the catch after acrobat ramp. left orbit can't be abused, and spin orbit can't be abused.

still not sure that there aren't real games where you can catch off high wire, though. i see why it usually fails, because the ball picks up ccw spin coming down the ramp, which would give it a boost.

#859 1 year ago
Quoted from Calfdemon:

Awesome to see new titles being completed! Patiently waiting for Judge Dredd to drop someday.

Being a new owner of the title, I agree and can’t wait either.

#860 1 year ago

Waiting for TOTAN

#861 1 year ago

What would you like to see?

#862 1 year ago
Quoted from Stebel:

What would you like to see?

That was already told in this topic, small adjustsments, increase the dificult and some mods, the TOTAN machine is a great them, great art, but very flat in code, have great potencial.

#863 1 year ago

soren any possibility of the Shadow suggestions coming to fruition?

#864 1 year ago

Where can I find info about any W/B updates that have been made by Planetary Pinball over the past year? I know the CFTBL rooms were updated simply because I owned that game. Any other updates?

#865 1 year ago
#866 1 year ago
Quoted from PinJim:

Where can I find info about any W/B updates that have been made by Planetary Pinball over the past year? I know the CFTBL rooms were updated simply because I owned that game. Any other updates?

The 2nd post on the 1st page has all the s/w updates listed (it’s also listed as a key post). https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades#post-5967032

#867 1 year ago

So I can’t find these Roms anywhere! I need a roadshow and a demo man. Anyone have a confirmed source?

#868 1 year ago
Quoted from paynemic:

So I can’t find these Roms anywhere! I need a roadshow and a demo man. Anyone have a confirmed source?

These roms are copyrighted stuff, you can't d/l them freely, you must order an eprom.

#869 1 year ago

soren : dumb question, the roms are only in English, any chance to make them in other languages?
I'm pretty sure many (foreign) pinsiders could help you

#870 1 year ago

Haahh, check T2 L8-3 for instance... we improved English, French and German.

#871 1 year ago
Quoted from CaptainCaverne:

These roms are copyrighted stuff, you can't d/l them freely, you must order an eprom.

I understand. I literally can’t find them anywhere to purchase. If anyone can point out the link that would be amazing. Thanks.

#872 1 year ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I understand. I literally can’t find them anywhere to purchase. If anyone can point out the link that would be amazing. Thanks.

https://mattsbasementarcade.com/product-category/pinball-roms/bally-williams/

#873 1 year ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I understand. I literally can’t find them anywhere to purchase. If anyone can point out the link that would be amazing. Thanks.

Based on previous posts https://classic-arcades.com/ is able to burn them - just give them a call

I understand that Matts Basement (based on the updated 1st post on this thread and other’s recent posts) is no longer burning ROMs

#874 1 year ago
Quoted from Manny65:

I understand that Matts Basement (based on the updated 1st post on this thread and other’s recent posts) is no longer burning ROMs

I ordered from him 3 months ago without any problem.

#875 1 year ago

yeah, they still seem to be there at basement arcade. just go to the rom page for the table, and pick it from the list.

#876 1 year ago

I am a licensed supplier as well. Pinballrom.com i also have a rom store here on Pinside.

1 month later
#877 1 year ago

Ok, so this is something that happens on my BSD that would be nice to fix. The autoplunge will time out and shoot the ball even if it's turned off in the settings. I just jack it up to 2 minutes and warn people, but it would be nice if I could actually disable it.

2 weeks later
#878 1 year ago

Hey @soren, is there any chance of getting the original uncompressed sound used in TAF and other games? For a price, of course. It would sound great with a PinSound card.

I have little hope that the original sound files are intact, but thought I would ask.

#879 1 year ago
Quoted from lhammer610:

Hey soren, is there any chance of getting the original uncompressed sound used in TAF and other games? For a price, of course. It would sound great with a PinSound card.
I have little hope that the original sound files are intact, but thought I would ask.

IMHO, I think Rick would be better to answer that.. Interesting thought, though. The originals would have been recorded on what, magnetic tape? Maybe copied over to CD?

#880 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

IMHO, I think Rick would be better to answer that.. Interesting thought, though. The originals would have been recorded on what, magnetic tape? Maybe copied over to CD?

I think dat-tape for some and if they have them the digital files.

CGC remakes have the original uncompressed sound files and don't emulate fully DCS

#881 1 year ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

I think dat-tape for some and if they have them the digital files.
CGC remakes have the original uncompressed sound files and don't emulate fully DCS

Ah, good to hear. Hopefully, all original recordings are saved somewhere!

#882 1 year ago

Are any changes planned for Scared Stiff?

#883 1 year ago
Quoted from Coyote:

IMHO, I think Rick would be better to answer that.. Interesting thought, though. The originals would have been recorded on what, magnetic tape? Maybe copied over to CD?

Thanks. But I don't know who to contact to answer this question. Rick?

Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

I think dat-tape for some and if they have them the digital files.
CGC remakes have the original uncompressed sound files and don't emulate fully DCS

I would love it if CGC would make available the original uncompressed files. But I bet this opens up a whole can of licensing worms. They would likely have to re-license with the original actors / estates, prior to selling them to the public. I think this all revolves around their potential inability to remake some of the licensed game (as I hear the rumors) like TAF, IJ, and likely TZ.

#884 1 year ago
Quoted from lhammer610:

Thanks. But I don't know who to contact to answer this question. Rick?

I would love it if CGC would make available the original uncompressed files.

Rick runs PPS and has control over the licenses. CGC has a license through Rick to make the remakes. (Heavily summarized, that.)

#885 1 year ago
Quoted from lhammer610:

I would love it if CGC would make available the original uncompressed files.

Download and decompress the game code from cgc (using 7zip, i think). The files are all there as wav. They have cryptic names but you can figure them all out by comparing them to the sound files from within the "Monster bash priginal" original sound mix from pinsound.org.
The gcg versions are all stereo. I am creating a complete stereo version of monster bash this way, to use in my original machines with pinsound.

Obviously i can't and will not share this due to licensing issues, but if you put in the same time i do... ... It's all there for you.
sound files CGC (resized).pngsound files CGC (resized).png

#886 1 year ago

I’m sort of surprised No Good Gofers hasn’t been worked on yet. Seems like the code wasn’t ever complete for it.

#887 1 year ago
Quoted from AndHart120:

I’m sort of surprised No Good Gofers hasn’t been worked on yet. Seems like the code wasn’t ever complete for it.

That would be nice. If you're really serious about improving that game, see the entire software re-write here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ngg20-new-code-for-your-no-good-gofers-2020

#888 1 year ago

All I want for Christmas is Funhouse with a ball save option!

3 weeks later
#889 1 year ago

Here's a general request.

Add Extra balls per game limit setting to standard WPC adjustments.

Extra balls per ball in play is really stupid, annoyoing, unintuitive, and only serves to confuse and screw players over.

Max extra balls stacked makes sense. When people stack up four extra balls, they don't feel cheated when they can't get a fifth. Eve a stack limit of 1 is understandable, though it is harsh (and Elvira and the Party Monsters needed that low limit).

Max extra balls per game, as implemented in earthshaker and whirlwind, also makes sense. Players understand "okay i've gotten a lot of extra balls, i'm not gonna get any more." They don't feel cheated. They feel good that they've gotten the game to say "no more extra balls".

Max per BIP only serves to screw people out of extra balls. If you have a bad ball 1, you've lost three balls. you can no longer collect the two extra balls you were allowed to, and now you only get a total of four extra balls, because you failed to get two of them on ball one. If it were balls per game six instead, like whirlwind does, then you could comeback and get all six of them.

I'd honestly prefer if max per b.i.p. was replaced by max per game throughout all of WPC, with defaults tripled (or 5xed for five ball play).

Many games need this setting, but b.i.p. 2 is too harsh, while 6 per game is fair, and works on existing tables. I've actually hit the extra ball cap on whirlwind in real life. if i didn't the game would have never ended.

Every other manufacturer offers max per game on anything remotely approaching current. Even pre sega data east offers this.

#890 1 year ago
Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

Here's a general request.
Add Extra balls per game limit setting to standard WPC adjustments.
Extra balls per ball in play is really stupid, annoyoing, unintuitive, and only serves to confuse and screw players over.
Max extra balls stacked makes sense. When people stack up four extra balls, they don't feel cheated when they can't get a fifth. Eve a stack limit of 1 is understandable, though it is harsh (and Elvira and the Party Monsters needed that low limit).
Max extra balls per game, as implemented in earthshaker and whirlwind, also makes sense. Players understand "okay i've gotten a lot of extra balls, i'm not gonna get any more." They don't feel cheated. They feel good that they've gotten the game to say "no more extra balls".
Max per BIP only serves to screw people out of extra balls. If you have a bad ball 1, you've lost three balls. you can no longer collect the two extra balls you were allowed to, and now you only get a total of four extra balls, because you failed to get two of them on ball one. If it were balls per game six instead, like whirlwind does, then you could comeback and get all six of them.
I'd honestly prefer if max per b.i.p. was replaced by max per game throughout all of WPC, with defaults tripled (or 5xed for five ball play).
Many games need this setting, but b.i.p. 2 is too harsh, while 6 per game is fair, and works on existing tables. I've actually hit the extra ball cap on whirlwind in real life. if i didn't the game would have never ended.
Every other manufacturer offers max per game on anything remotely approaching current. Even pre sega data east offers this.

WPC has max per game

#891 1 year ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

WPC has max per game

No, it does NOT.

it has stack limit, and max per ball in play.

it does NOT have max per game.

i've read the operator manuals, i've checked the setting myself, i've tested on licensed recreations.

WPC only provides two standard settings.

a.1 03: Maximum extra balls. This is the max you are allowed to stack at once. it's usually four by default. I'll give Funhouse as an example. You can get up to four at once. once you lose a ball, you can collect another one to get back up to four. You can collect both the gangway extra ball, and the mirror extra ball on the same ball every ball.
a.1 04: Maximum extra balls/ball in play. When set for a game, this is usually two. But it usually defaults to unlimited. If set to two, you can get two extra balls while the ball counter says 1, 2 while the counter says 2, and 2 while the counter says three. For a 3 ball installed game, this means the cap is six, but two have to be gotten on each ball. you can easily waste a one time extra ball this way. If you got the gangway extra ball, the steps extra ball, and the mirror extra ball on ball 1, one of them would be wasted with a BIP limit of two.

If there was a real max per game setting, and it were set at six, you would get to keep all three. after you drained, you could then collect two more (gangway and mirror), then after that, drain, collect one more (gangway or mirror), and then no more extra balls for the rest of the game.

There is no maximum extra balls/game setting. Only pre WPC Williams games ever had that. It's a nice feature. More pinball games should have it. Most non Williams games DO have it.

Some games have a feature adjustment that places a per game cap on certain extra ball sources. For example, steps extra ball DOES have a per game cap. Royal Madness can have a per game extra ball cap on it. but there's no global per game extra ball cap in WPC.

I checked Cactus Canyon. no difference. just a.1 03 and a.1 04, and they are the same that are on Funhouse.

#892 1 year ago

soren or anyone who may know I just updated to the 2.0 ROM for ToM, when I reached grand finale the shots were displaying 10mil on the DMD, but the Audio callouts were 50mil. Do I need upgrade sound roms or something else? Thanks the lic reseller had no idea.

1 week later
#893 1 year ago
Quoted from polishedball:

soren or anyone who may know I just updated to the 2.0 ROM for ToM, when I reached grand finale the shots were displaying 10mil on the DMD, but the Audio callouts were 50mil. Do I need upgrade sound roms or something else? Thanks the lic reseller had no idea.

That is news to me. Obviously a bug which I wish I would've fixed.

#894 1 year ago
Quoted from _Zaphod77_:

Extra balls per ball in play is really stupid, annoyoing, unintuitive, and only serves to confuse and screw players over.

Eventhough the standard menu adj for extra balls where really "standard", meaning the same for all games 1990-99, it might have different interpretation game to game per the individual programmer. And if you told me I would also believe, that there are games out there where certain EB awards are given eventhough some max limit is reached. Simply because it was coded without checking.

Generally EB on mystery and semi random awards are less likely, if not prevented, for games where EBs have been earned already. They made algorithms for this even back in the earlier 1980s games. Other times EBs per some feature progression is once per game. Like TOM 6 o'clock. It is points after the first one EB. So you can say that EBs are self limiting.

I agree that EB limitation should be total per game and that is it. And I like to set the limit at 2. EBs per ball-in-play and stacked limit are weird, really. I like to see a game of pinball being progression through all balls to play. Apart from obvious things like timed modes, which ends with current ball.

EBs are a sweetspot between hooking players to come back a play again. And the ever so importent game-time. Which operators tend to see black/white as: the lower game-time the higher the earning. Meeeh, I dont think so. So I am going out on a limb saying, maybe lavish adjustments to limit EBs was introduced to have the operator dude pick your product.

#895 1 year ago

soren - Any plans for Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure ? I'd love to see a true skill shot added- Hold the left flipper to raise the left ball gate before shooting, then skill shot award for hitting any of the targets on the 3 target bank, or super skill shot for hitting the 1 target bank.

#896 1 year ago

Checking in….. did anything ever get done with a update on Judge Dredd? I’ve read some posts regarding changes but didn’t know where the process was at this point….

#897 1 year ago

I'd still just love to get a stinking "ball save" feature on Addams Family Gold and standard TAF. Shit, I'd pay $100 bucks for that ROM chip. No joke.

#898 1 year ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

Checking in….. did anything ever get done with a update on Judge Dredd? I’ve read some posts regarding changes but didn’t know where the process was at this point….

Another another vote for Judge Dredd. At least one with all the fixes of the latest and a menu setting if the dead world is setup with the prototype or the regular slotted version.

#899 1 year ago

Lol, I’d pay $100 for an NGG rom that fixes everything, probably the most broken / incomplete WPC code to date

#900 1 year ago

I’d pay $100.00 for a ball save on funhouse!

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