A feature that just happens to take advantage of a MOD you are coming out with...

Back to the request list- Thoughts for a setting to randomize TV awards on WCS?

Yes how else would you set a STTNG up?

TAF ball save

TAF doesn't have an autolaunch mech, only the plunger. It would not behave in line with other ball save games. I would say it needs to stay the way it is.

CFTBL has ball save - "Stay cool, daddy-o" - and just a plunger ?

It depends upon what you mean by "ball save". Do you mean "plunged the ball and it drained in the first few seconds, so give it back" or do you mean "just started multi-ball and some of the balls drained right away, so keep giving me more"?

If you mean the first one, then yes, you can have ball save without an autoplunger. If you mean the second one, then no, you need an autoplunger.

Road Show has some 2 ball multi-ball savers aka lose both balls and get one back.

Big Guns has INVINCIBLE mode and if you lose all balls you get one back.

I see the difference as you describe, but most WMS games of the 90's era with a ball save do auto-launch the ball back into play when saved. I am not a big fan of putting it back into the shooter lane and leaving it sit on a "save". That is what would have to happen for the TAF suggestion to be implemented. I don't think that is a good solution. I understand why some folks would want it, but the implementation available through software only doesn't work in my opinion.

Well, assuming you don't mean the multi-ball save - then putting the ball into the shooter lane to be re-plunged manually is fine.

And virtually EVERY WMS game from the '90s (and at least '80s Bally) has this, including TAF - most people just don't realize it. If you score ZERO points on a ball, the ball is typically "saved" and returned to the plunger.

This is primarily done to avoid loosing a ball when the ball feeder mechanism has mis-fired. It's essentially impossible to do on a properly functioning TAF, but on some machines (especially SS machines) it is possible to keep re-plunging balls, scoring zero points each time.

In this case the "ball save" is based on "lack-of-points" rather than based on "lack-of-play-time", but the concept is the same.

Indeed. I can demonstrate this on my Jokerz! and Scared Stiff right now. Both will allow you to plunge again until you score a point. On Scared Stiff, it's common to short plunge the ball to try and hit the spider hole as the first shot. If it makes it through the gate and drains without hitting any switches, you get another shot without using up your initial ball save. Jokerz! is a little harder, since you need to make the ramp without hitting the ramp switch, but it happens on occasion.

Would you agree that scoring zero is the outlier scenario vs hitting some switch and scoring something?

Of course, but that's not the point. The point is that a ball save is still functional/viable even without an auto-launcher. And actually exists on most games already in this form.

The fact that it is used infrequently does not change the fact that it works.

And if a "no points scored" ball save can work, so can a "short time played" ball save.

It doesn't need an autolaunch mech. TAF already has a ball save. If you do not score any points the ball is returned. Would be nice to be able to set that to a period of time instead of a score (or to a minimum score award).

I don't want it for myself personally but I'm trying to rope in casual gamers, many of which have never played pinball. I don't want them kicked in the teeth by TaF and get discouraged.

Pat Lawlor *hates* ball savers. hence his games don't have them. adding one would go against the designer's wishes, if that matters to anyone... and besides, it's pretty hard to loose a ball very quickly in addams. light plunge gives it to the right flipper through the swamp. heavy plunge goes all the way around (and if you loose it that way, that's *your* fault, not bad luck.)

I'll reiterate

I don't want it for myself personally but I'm trying to rope in casual gamers, many of which have never played pinball. I don't want them kicked in the teeth by TaF and get discouraged.

My TZ has ball save, that's a lawlor machine no?

Dialedin as well.

Everytime I see new posts on here in hoping its Soren announcing new releases.
Guess we'll just have to keep waiting

Try a factory reset your tz and see if there is still a ball save. Pretty sure it wasn't turned on by default, but I am not 100 percent and no longer have the game.

But I have th option to turn it back on. Older ROMs only had ball save on the first ball. The last rom had the option for all three balls.

Is there a promulgated list of finished code updates on this thread?, or elsewhere?

Post #2 (key post) has the current release of ROMs (which were the initial ones) - as to whether this post will be updated as new releases come out is unclear

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-williams-and-bally-software-upgrades#post-5967032

Sometime the timed ball save feature can also become an exploit... People would voluntary drain on Getaway to get another shot at trying the loop, which is not the spirit!

I "exploit" it all of the time to get through the gears.

However, I am curious why it wasn't originally programmed like other pins where once it is used during a ball then it is disabled for the remainder of that ball.

I know that sometimes new players at my place in multiplayer games start playing each others balls when a ballsave has occured without an autoshooter. Maybe that's where the 'confusion' comes from.

To get back on topic for the updates, I'll repeat my (maybe annoying) request: I'd buy a new BSD and DrWho rom purely for videomodes where the order is randomized (not the speed, just in which order in which the wolves appear or in DrWho which obstacles, long or short, appear).
That said, I also think you should do what you think is important. You can never please all of us. Just trying to convince you though

Doesn't Doctor Who already have a random setting for video mode?

I know you probably have a list of games to do but, out of curiosity, how difficult is it to modify TaF’s ball save since it already exists relative to some of the other recoding you are doing)

I am a bit confused about the development of this thread, honestly speaking. After the initial announcement by soren there were a small number of SW released and since then the only thing I see here is a bunch of users going on about "I want this" and "I want that" with the OP getting in here and there, but somehow without clarity on whther or not it will be done or not. This thread would benefit a lot from one of three things:

1. Put up a list of planned ROMS and a list of planned changes. Then people can go on about what they like and what not, but the scope is set and that is it.
Or 2. Put up a ROM list and let people decide on features based on whatever transparent system is available to do so.
Or 3. Not fuel the - in this case pointless - debate and just release whatever is ready, whenever it is ready.

This half-announcement half-joint-feature-debate-decision-frankenstein on the open forum really only brings frustration for no good reason.

My bottom line is: Whenever the ROM for Getaway is ready, I will buy it. And although I am really deep into this machine I will not cry about what Soeren does or doesn't do, or any decisions he makes, unless specifically asked about it in private. I am deeply grateful to maybe get an official improvement for one of the best pinball games on the planet.

I think even on the hard setting it is not random

Indeed, as far as I know, there's no random-setting

So, one bug that I found was when Scared Stiff starts with a functional spider and it errors out during play. It simply exits the spider and spits the ball back out. It would be nice to either restart the spider with the lights only(preferred), or relight the spider hole when spitting out the ball. It sucks to have it hang, then rob you of a spin. Especially on a close game, where starting a multiball or the stiff o meter might mean the difference between winning or losing.
This is the sort of coding that I would love to play with.
EDIT:
Oh, I have also seen this on a few machines. If you qualify for the stiff-o-meter during a crate multiball that has the extension and then drain a ball, it will often times kick into the beginning mode of the stiff-o-meter instead of continuing the multiball. Not sure if it happens 100% of the time or just occasionally, but I have seen it several times on different machines.

Strange, I found mention of a random video mode on an old Doctor Who ruleset, but I have found a number of errors on these before so maybe it's inaccurate. I always figured I'd set the video mode to random if I ever picked up a DW so if that's not actually an option it would definitely make for a great addition to the code.

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#doctor-who might choose a random wave on some difficulty settings and keep the pattern the same for a given wave.

Would be nice to look at the software for Terminator 2, would like to use it in a competitive setting one of these years.

PAPA Notes:
Terminator 2 software contains bugs that can potentially be devastating to a competitive game. Known bugs include: 255 drop target hits to multiball, and a multiball bug that may occur when a ball is locked with zero seconds left on the timer causing a string of odd behavior from the game.

I know that there was some weird scoring issues with it at some point too I have one at the arcade now so will be able to take a closer look for sure.

I’d like to get the operator to buy one of these ROMs for a Creature in my league. Can someone tell me exactly what I need to order? There are a bunch of options.

Also, I’d like to get one for my own Demolition Man. Can someone help me out with that as well? I have the profanity ROMs and would want to keep that option. Unless there isn’t an option to have profanity and the claw change portion.

Thanks!

You might be in luck, if the profanity sound ROMS replaced the original callout sound data, they should play with a newer revision. If the profanity callouts are additional data in the sound ROM and not replacement, you'd have to edit the new ROM to call the profanity sound effects. I remember the potty-mouth version would say both "be well" and "be f*cked" so it may be the letter setup...

the home rom add an vulgar speech settings and when you tilt warnings say fuck you in sound and on the DMD

I think that's T2? DM had more profanity added than that.

that is just one thing there is an lot more
Full tilt they say puck ass mouthfucker

If geekmem serves me right -- Flight Insurance in F-14 was first. Of course, most likely not yet part of a general low-level ruleset for all machines building on the same OS.

/Enver

RBION's correctly adjusted shooter lane gives you a Jackpot when draining and letting the machine 'ball save'. Nothing wrong with a good grasp of a game's rules.

Sorry, I’m confused why your quoted two Getaway posts. What is the correlation you are making?

I think he's agreeing with you and saying that knowing a game's rules and using them to your advantage isn't necessarily an "exploit"

To correctly pull off multiple loops on Getaway during the timed ball saver takes skill. You need to be able to to drop stop the ball with the left flipper multiple times in succession. And you also need to know that having two balls locked makes it less effective as the trough has to cycle the ball through instead of serving the next one up right away. And you always run the risk when trying to pull off one more loop that the saver will end and you'll lose the ball.

I'd be okay with having an option to make one ball save then it turns off. But completely taking away the timed ball save would get rid of a part of the game I enjoy.

it was linked to EB's and EB off = Game says ball saved when it is not.