(Topic ID: 135413)

Official Stern KISS LE / Premium Demon Lock Troubleshooting thread


By ScottinSGFNY

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 96 posts
  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by snaroff
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“How is your Demon working?”

  • almost always takes 1 try to get from VUK to Trough 7 votes
    6%
  • more often takes 2 or more trys to get ball from VUK to Trough 35 votes
    31%
  • When Ball shoots from Demon Mouth it almost never goes SDTM 16 votes
    14%
  • When Ball shoots from Demon Mouth it goes SDTM a lot 31 votes
    27%
  • When ball shoot from Demon Mouth it never goes SDTM 5 votes
    4%
  • I had problems and tried to make adjustments but it still isn't 100% 15 votes
    13%
  • I had problems and tried made adjustments and now it's almost 100% 4 votes
    4%

(Multiple choice - 113 votes by 77 Pinsiders)

Topic Gallery

There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_2264 (resized).jpeg
IMG_2263 (resized).jpeg
IMG_0839.jpg
IMG_0838.jpg
PA190101.jpg
Kiss_Demon_005.jpg
Kiss_Demon_009.jpg
Kiss_Demon_006.jpg
Kiss_Demon_001.jpg

There are 96 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

For owners of Stern KISS LE or Premium:

Take the poll and post (You can vote on more than 1 choice) if you have issues with the Demon Lock or have any troubleshooting or adjustment advice.

It more than often takes 2 or 3 trys to get the Ball shot up to the Demon Trough from the VUK on my pin.

I also get many SDTM balls from being shot out of the Demon.

Anyone else having this trouble and found a good remedy?

(SDTM = Straight down the middle)

#2 4 years ago

Bump - anyone talked with Stern tech support yet on this and received suggestions or help regarding?

#3 4 years ago

Usually mine takes about 2-3 attempts to lock a ball, sometimes just once and other times 3 or more.
I would say that when the ball shots out of his mouth, it usually goes to the left flipper but near the tip. Every once in a while it goes SDTM or to the left flipper.
I just setup my game on Saturday.

#4 4 years ago

The one we have at the shop is definitely touchy, but I'm not sure how much of that is how the shot is designed vs tweaking the game. The pro I played a few weeks ago wasn't 100% either.

#5 4 years ago

I have my legs in the back all the way up, I am wondering if that may play a role or not.

#6 4 years ago

Ours are pretty jacked up too. But I mean...this is not a game to play slow and easy!

#7 4 years ago

I've noticed VUK issues when there are 2 balls locked in the demon head. It can take multiple tries to get the next ball popped into the lock. I'm thinking this is a software issue as the head may only be setup to hold two balls at any time, but I'm not sure.

#8 4 years ago

I have mine leveled so the bubble level next to the shooter lane is right dead center In between the lines, back levelers are a little more than half way up, so I guess that doesn't make a difference since a couple of you have said they have the back even higher than that.

#9 4 years ago

IN for updates. I pick ours up Friday.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Ours are pretty jacked up too. But I mean...this is not a game to play slow and easy!

Exactly, it's already too easy as it stands...
-mof

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Exactly, it's already too easy as it stands...
-mof

my HS is 91 million so far leaving the game in factory state. You must be destroying it if it's too easy.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

my HS is 91 million so far leaving the game in factory state. You must be destroying it if it's too easy.

Most def not. Only played it 20 times or so and maxed around 30m. But I think I got 20m-30m with multiball on more than half the games, only since that Gene multiball is so darn easy to make. And just overall, I think the shots are on the easy side.

Remember, I think KISS being "easy" is *good* for new pinball on location. I want newbs to think/feel, "I get the rules" + "I can do this"... which I think is rarely the case with most new pins. This is the right direction.

I think the real question is how do you balance easy for location with hard for home collectors. Perhaps programming (timing/sequence) rules can make it more exciting for home play. But that programming would include de-valuing the super easy shots like the Gene shot, since programming can't alter physics.

-mof

#13 4 years ago

Adult Language:

Hi RON!

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from ScottinSGFNY:

It more than often takes 2 or 3 trys to get the Ball shot up to the Demon Trough from the VUK on my pin.
Anyone else having this trouble and found a good remedy?

I've had this happen, but not very often.

The other thing I've seen is the ball ends up in the trough and gets spit out of the mouth without triggering a multi-ball. I assume the design is that ball's should only shoot of the demon's mouth during MB...true?

#15 4 years ago

Here are some pics::
Kiss Demon 001.JPG

VUK Side view partially manually extended

Kiss Demon 005.JPG

Top of VUK Where ball sits & Triggers Switch

Kiss Demon 006.JPG

Take out these 2 screws to access mounting screws of Demon Assembly

Kiss Demon 009.JPG

3 Screws on each side of Demon Assembly (Total of 6)

I loosened all 6 screws and pushed lightly on the right side of the Demon Tongue holding pressure to the left side of the machine
Then while holding light pressure tightened all 6 screws back down.

This has helped a little with the SDTM but has not completely resolved. I believe ball delivery is a bit random as one actually spit out and hit the right flipper.

I talked with Stern Tech Support and I was told the VUK will "Learn" from the game being played and will adjust strength to try to compensate force needed to get balls to demon trough. They also said that the VUK strength can be adjusted in the menus (not sure how that would help if it learns from game play).

#16 4 years ago

So an update:

Based in other posts - it seems that the 1st and 2nd ball will load from the vuk to trough mostly the 1st time. It's the 3rd ball going in the trough that has the most trouble as it hits the other 2 already loaded and bounces back down.

Now when you finish a game if you hit the start button before seeing "game over" on the dmd like during the match sequence the game will leave any balls that were loaded in the demon trough in the demon trough leading to more of the problems mentioned above in the thread. I guess I am in a hurry to start my next game so that's why I am having more issues with the trough.

So it is best when you finish a game to let the game finish the match sequence, say GAME OVER and then it will unload all the balls in the demon trough and you will have less gameplay issues.

This still doesn't help a hard shot to the demon when lock isn't ready that kicks to the trough and may eject fom the demon SDTM ending your ball.

#17 4 years ago

Another update:

Disregard what I said above - The Demon is exactly that. It works when it wants to - It screws up when it wants to. Now almost every ball loaded 1st 2nd or 3rd has trouble making it to the trough in one try. The whole demon mechanism is just crap - sure the game works, but not the way it should. Certainly annoying as hell. I guess I am the only one frustrated as no one else seems to be complaining - so I give up - I've tried adjusting the whole mech left and right and centered, I've changed the Incline of the game to different positions. Kiss is a fun game to play - but forget playing for points or against someone when the demon just throws your turn away. I like my games to work right and be 100% and it looks like this will not be the case with Kiss.

Thanks Stern for p_ssing me off. Nothing like paying top money for a game that just p_sses you off.

#18 4 years ago

You're not alone Scott. Mine is progressively getting worse with the Demon ball load. I'm going to try changing the playfield pitch to see if that remedies the problem. Is there any kind of adjustment in the holding trough? Maybe the balls can advance slightly forward giving the next ball some room to load? I dunno, as I haven't taken it apart yet.

#19 4 years ago

I thought mine was better when I adjusted the pitch... but wife played last night and every ball from the demon head sdtm. Then she hit the start button while it was still loaded and that totally got the game out of sync. It actually reported a malfunction on the dmd and to report it to the operator. I just turned it off and will look at it this weekend.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from ScottinSGFNY:

Adult Language:
ยป YouTube video
Hi RON!

ok, that's hilarious...

#21 4 years ago

You are not alone, our Kiss LE at Lyons Classic Pinball has the same Demon ball lock problem. Takes more then 3 hits to go in sometimes. I just shake the piss out of the game and then it loads. Has anyone tried turning up the power of the VUC?

#22 4 years ago

I meant VUK.

#23 4 years ago

I love the game but my LE has the same issues with the lock/kick out

#24 4 years ago

Same problem

#25 4 years ago

Stern is also telling me the VUK will learn. So we will just have to see about that, because in my opinion, it's "learning engine" is getting worse, than better. I say this because like most of you, it was not like this originally, but got worse after several plays.

They had me remove the VUK and inspect it to make sure the rod was cleanly passing through the sheet metal hole...It is.

QUESTION: Out of everyone thats having problems, who is using the standard balls that came with the game?

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from paratrooper:

Stern is also telling me the VUK will learn. So we will just have to see about that, because in my opinion, it's "learning engine" is getting worse, than better. I say this because like most of you, it was not like this originally, but got worse after several plays.
They had me remove the VUK and inspect it to make sure the rod was cleanly passing through the sheet metal hole...It is.
QUESTION: Out of everyone thats having problems, who is using the standard balls that came with the game?

I'm having the same VUK'ing problem!

I'm using the Pinball Life "Premium Ultra Gloss" balls. I think most people here are smart enough to know NOT to use the balls that Stern includes with the game.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from PinB:

I'm having the same VUK'ing problem!
I'm using the Pinball Life "Premium Ultra Gloss" balls. I think most people here are smart enough to know NOT to use the balls Stern includes with the game.

I simply ask to see if anyone is having the same issues using factory balls.

So I think at this time I will set aside troubleshooting the VUK, and remove the DEMON head to take a better look at it and how the balls are being tossed up into it etc... I might even add me a strip of foam tape or something onto the side wall of the metal ball lane to prevent anymore SDTM Drains!

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from PinB:

I'm having the same VUK'ing problem!
I'm using the Pinball Life "Premium Ultra Gloss" balls. I think most people here are smart enough to know NOT to use the balls Stern includes with the game.

I'm actually using the Stern balls. Unlike other releases, the balls they shipped with my KISS Premium look great (I inspected them pretty closely). I don't have any Pinball Life balls handy at the moment.

Where the balls you received defective in some way?

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I'm actually using the Stern balls. Unlike other releases, the balls they shipped with my KISS Premium look great (I inspected them pretty closely). I don't have any Pinball Life balls handy at the moment.
Where the balls you received defective in some way?

Starting back in 2012 with AC/DC, I had a consecutive run with several NIB games having poor condition balls from Stern (one or more would be pitted, some were even slightly rusted). I always have an extra supply of the Pinball Life balls on-hand, so now I just trash the Stern balls by default.

#30 4 years ago

My machine has Garys balls in it.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from ScottinSGFNY:

My machine has Garys balls in it.

#32 4 years ago

Is it hard to remove the Gene Head ??

UPDATE: Mine is so bad now, I am getting the "operator notice" Demon Lock is malfunctioning. Then of course you can no longer play because the ball is stuck. Turn off, turn on, and wait for it to just barely pop the ball enough for it to roll down after the error...

The longer you play the worse it gets. at least with mine, I am noticing it seems to act somewhat normal on a fresh game when it has been turned off for a bit?

Argggggg...

#33 4 years ago

Yes - I also agree it seems like the longer you play the game the worse it gets. Power seems to be less and it sounds like the coil isn't firing as hard.

#34 4 years ago

mine shoots out of gene sdtm on multiball. really sucks!!!

#35 4 years ago

picking ours up shortly.....greaaaaaaaaat.

#36 4 years ago

sdtm everytime. It makes this pin very very frustrating. Stern really messed this pin up. I hope they can make a fix for this?

#37 4 years ago

I think Ill remove the tilt bob and just shake the hell out of it, lol.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from Twilliams:

sdtm everytime. It makes this pin very very frustrating. Stern really messed this pin up. I hope they can make a fix for this?

SDTM from the spinner or the VUK?

#39 4 years ago

VUK out of genes head. The spinner doesn't do much of anything either that I can tell. My distributor told me to try and take it apart and re-position it. Not sure I like doing that on a brand new pin... but what else can you do here? Any ideas on fixing it? I have got the operators notice several times now.

#40 4 years ago

Try jacking the playfield pitch up a bit more so the ball stays up in the trough. I did this, and it is a bit better now. I'm going to take a look at the Gene trough this weekend to see if there is any adjustment there, like possibly having the balls moved slightly ahead to make room for the next? Dunno.

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from Twilliams:

VUK out of genes head. The spinner doesn't do much of anything either that I can tell. My distributor told me to try and take it apart and re-position it. Not sure I like doing that on a brand new pin... but what else can you do here? Any ideas on fixing it? I have got the operators notice several times now.

If your distributor were local, he should come out and work on it. Assuming the distributor isn't local, you have to get your hands dirty as he suggests. fwiw, I've had to do many NIB repairs to my MET and AC/DC just after taking delivery (replacing target banks, cannon motors, LED boards, etc.). Usually the troubleshooting and repairs aren't that difficult (especially with help from Pinsiders and/or Stern support).

The VUK out of genes head doesn't have this issue on mine. I have other intermittent issues with The Demon...

#42 4 years ago

Just set up mine, same issues , 2-3 times loading the demon lock.

I looked and gene's mouth was partly blocking the exit and not central causing stdm so wanted to see what was up.

Spent an hour removing the assembly and taking of the head ,(pain in the ass) 5 self tapping screws that can only be accessed from the bottom by lifting the through up.

Remounted the assembly without the head, the VUC now works fine, nit sure why, a one kick afair and the angle of the through exit with regard to stdm's can now Be adjusted or altered without gene sculpt blocking it.

Gene's head was slotted back about half an inch further back over the through in mine and Some velcro is Holding it now, for easy future removal/ adjusting, so far so good.

Might be a solution for more machines judging by how far of the head was mounted ..

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Just set up mine, same issues , 2-3 times loading the demon lock.
I looked and gene's mouth was partly blocking the exit and not central causing stdm so wanted to see what was up.
Spent an hour removing the assembly and taking of the head ,(pain in the ass) 5 self tapping screws that can only be accessed from the bottom by lifting the through up.
Remounted the assembly without the head, the VUC now works fine, nit sure why, a one kick afair and the angle of the through exit with regard to stdm's can now Be adjusted or altered without gene sculpt blocking it.
Gene's head was slotted back about half an inch further back over the through in mine and Some velcro is Holding it now, for easy future removal/ adjusting, so far so good.
Might be a solution for more machines judging by how far of the head was mounted ..

This is good news! Please keep us posted and updated so we can all start taking the head of and making adjustments!

Stern told me the ball slot in his mouth can be adjusted to eliminate the SDTM drains. Can you confirm if there are adjustable screws that would allow you to adjust the metal piece?

Not looking forward to taking the head off... Oh well, gotta do what we gotta do!

AND YES, I adjusted the tilt WAY LOW so when it acts up I can give it a good side to side nudge when the VUK pops. It will usually come down then and I can continue to play.

Keep us up to date please!!! Thanks in advance

UPDATE: Wait a second! I removed the top piece behind the head with two simple screws and observed the metal shaft that the ball must travel to get to the holding area. How does removing the head make any difference ???? is it not just one complete scoop that the ball gets shot into? I can also see the sensors that detect how many balls are in the lane.

I think we have a VUK problem.

UPDATE: I have increased the Demon Lock-up power to max (64) and it seems to make a difference. I have not had it pop more than 4 times now before it catches properly !

#44 4 years ago

Set ours up tonight, standard pitch, level sidd to side. No sdtm out of genes head. We put about about 15 games on it.

ALMOST got the love gun myst effect...totally blew the shot lol.

#45 4 years ago

I have to say: I got to put about 16 games on one this afternoon for the first time and loved it. Fun game. I'd put it in my top 3 or 4 new Stern games. Nicklerama in Garland, TX has one in case anyone else was un-aware....

#46 4 years ago

Ok folks!

Not 100% factory solution but try this.

Set the DEMON Lock-Up power value to the MAX (64)... Save and restart the game.

You will now be able to enjoy your game with an occasional "three-four" pulse ball toss

I have relayed this information to Stern so they can have the engineer team look into the VUK Voltage issue that some of us are experiencing.

Have a great weekend.

P. S. No need to remove anything, or make adjustments on the play field At least not for me. Just go into the menu and make the changes

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from paratrooper:

Ok folks!
Not 100% factory solution but try this.
Set the DEMON Lock-Up power value to the MAX (64)... Save and restart the game.
You will now be able to enjoy your game with an occasional "three-four" pulse ball toss
I have relayed this information to Stern so they can have the engineer team look into the VUK Voltage issue that some of us are experiencing.
Have a great weekend.
P. S. No need to remove anything, or make adjustments on the play field At least not for me. Just go into the menu and make the changes

Be sure, that many people have done this, but it doesn't help !
I own some pins and I think, I know what to do.
In this case, I checked everything and set the power to many different settings.
There is a hardware problem, nothing else !!!
Really hard to find the right adjustments.
In the meantime, I have every time "operator notice" and my machine learn nothing ....
Bad job Stern ! How about a real quality and end control ?

#48 4 years ago

Same problem here with a machine on location. I agree the issue is mechanical, not the power level or in software.

I'm contacting Stern for guidance as this doesn't seem to have a simple fix.

-Jay

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from jrobinso99:

Same problem here with a machine on location. I agree the issue is mechanical, not the power level or in software.
I'm contacting Stern for guidance as this doesn't seem to have a simple fix.
-Jay

I don't agree that the problem is purely mechanical. On my Premium, the lock fails more frequently the longer the pin is on. The switching power supply is brand new with SPIKE and the intermittent failures could relate to how power is managed.

#50 4 years ago

I have all 3 recent spike system releases, and the bugs have not been worked out. They are very good at finding solutions
to all reported problems. We are they Ginny pige for testing !

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