(Topic ID: 300344)

Official Stern Godzilla hype thread

By beltking

4 months ago


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#651 3 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

The features list shows Vacuum moulded city scape backboard so that must just be the sample game.
[quoted image]

They're vacuum molded in the sense that someone cleaned them with a Dirt Devil after molding the cardboard into shape

#652 3 months ago
Quoted from Gambeno:

I'm wondering if in the pro version, is the bottom floor just a bash toy or does it open to let the ball swing around to the Magna Grab? I would assume the latter the way the game played.

Mayyyybe it spits out behind the big staple, but I'm concerned it's just a bash.

Screenshot_20210920-195127_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg
#653 3 months ago
Quoted from onemilemore:

Mayyyybe it spits out behind the big staple, but I'm concerned it's just a bash.
[quoted image]

It definitely loops around… There is no bash element to the building

#654 3 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

It definitely loops around… There is no bash element to the building

Really? Maybe just missed shots that counted as damage to the building?? During the stream it looked like they were bashing into it to start the godzilla multiball. When not setting up to lock balls I thought they were just shooting threw it.

#655 3 months ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

It is also a way for Stern to hurt their sales. I bought a JP premium before that custom code rolled out but I know there are many others that were on the fence or not going to buy because Stern had so few assets for the game.
You may be right and Stern wants to do more to protect their licensees but it will be due to pressure and not because they want to do it. Regardless, if Stern goes that route and tries to control a toy I paid them a ridiculous $8k + for without an option to turn off their ads and ability to mess with my code, etc., I will be out on any future NIB purchases. I imagine I am not alone in that either. Keep big brother out of our personal property.

Stern have never said that they support you hacking their code, now because of putting the games online I'd be amazed if it was so easy to do. It should never have been doable and in my view (working in Security) amazed that the code was so unprotected.

12
#656 3 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Stern have never said that they support you hacking their code, now because of putting the games online I'd be amazed if it was so easy to do. It should never have been doable and in my view (working in Security) amazed that the code was so unprotected.

I think you missed the point. He’s saying (and I agree) Stern shouldn’t be fukn with OUR machines. Once you buy it, it’s yours to do whatever you want. Sure Stern can not honor the warranty if you hack it, but it’s no longer their machine - they sold it. That’s the definition of ownership. He was simply making the point that he didn’t want Stern mandating a connected machine back to big brother Gary’s office so he could start sniffing around and see what you’re doing with it. The option to turn this off isn’t an option. It better be “hell yes you can turn it off” and not required to simply play a game of pinball

#657 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I think you missed the point. He’s saying (and I agree) Stern shouldn’t be fukn with OUR machines. Once you buy it, it’s yours to do whatever you want. Sure Stern can it honor the warranty if you hack it, but it’s no longer their machine - they sold it. That’s the definition of ownership. He was simply making the point that he didn’t want Stern mandating a connected machine back to big brother Gary’s office so he could start sniffing around and see what you’re doing with it. The option to turn this off isn’t an option. It better be “hell yes you can turn it off” and not required to simply play a game of pinball

Amen brother!!!

#658 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I think you missed the point. He’s saying (and I agree) Stern shouldn’t be fukn with OUR machines. Once you buy it, it’s yours to do whatever you want. Sure Stern can it honor the warranty if you hack it, but it’s no longer their machine - they sold it.

Sure… and you would never be upset and cause Stern any grief if there were a security incident in your home or place of business when someone was using one or more of your pins to own your network and send all your info/traffic back to ‘wherever’. Yeah. Freedom.

NOTE: this was meant to be sarcastic, thought that was obvious… but never know these days

#659 3 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Stern have never said that they support you hacking their code, now because of putting the games online I'd be amazed if it was so easy to do. It should never have been doable and in my view (working in Security) amazed that the code was so unprotected.

I've never hacked any code. You completely missed my point. Get over yourself.

#660 3 months ago

Anybody have a distributor with open October build slots for a premium? Please PM me if you do.

12
#661 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Once you buy it, it’s yours to do whatever you want.

Apple wants a word with you

#662 3 months ago

That’s true. You don’t own an iPhone, “it”aka Apple owns you.

#663 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I think you missed the point. He’s saying (and I agree) Stern shouldn’t be fukn with OUR machines. Once you buy it, it’s yours to do whatever you want. Sure Stern can not honor the warranty if you hack it, but it’s no longer their machine - they sold it. That’s the definition of ownership. He was simply making the point that he didn’t want Stern mandating a connected machine back to big brother Gary’s office so he could start sniffing around and see what you’re doing with it. The option to turn this off isn’t an option. It better be “hell yes you can turn it off” and not required to simply play a game of pinball

True but it is Stern's job to protect their assets. Stern and licensors are not going to be happy if all their games show up on location with unauthorized code, animations, and music. Location games earn money and that is the key.

#664 3 months ago

It’s not “their” asset once they sell it to you. If you think that, here’s a good movie for you

037EBF4A-02E5-4414-97CF-8C5B4A8AD896 (resized).jpeg

18
#665 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

It’s not “their” asset once they sell it to you. If you think that, here’s a good movie for you
[quoted image]

You might be surprised to find out that you don't own *any* of the software you use (unless you wrote it yourself), Apple or not. You don't own any of the movies you have "bought" or the contents of any books either - sure you might own the pinball machine's hardware, the phone itself or the paper the book is printed on, but the IP is only licensed to you. The software in you pins and all the assets that come with it are not yours even if they are in your home - it is entirely in the IP's owners rights (and legal obligations, in fact) to control and protect them.

#666 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

It’s not “their” asset once they sell it to you. If you think that, here’s a good movie for you
[quoted image]

My guess (and only a guess), is they do not give a crap what you do with it in the privacy of your own home. However, when these machines end up being made public with non-authorized assets, I can see their concern. I'm sure it's an uncomfortable conversation if Disney calls up and says "hey...we didn't license you to use Avengers movie footage in AIQ, yet it's all over the internet with it playing on your machine". Probably not easy to explain that "well...those darn enthusiasts figured out how to hack our system." Sure, the odds of Disney surfing Youtube looking at pinball machine assets might be low, but I know licensed assets is serious business. As much as I love the ability and work some of the modders have done, I can completely understand why Stern is trying to lock it down better.

Plus there is always a bigger concern over how far modding can be taken. Sure, now it is only A/V assets, but if we can go that far, it's only a matter of time before people figure out a deeper level with solenoid controls and power levels, etc. If someone starts tinkering around, fries something and burns their house down, where are the liability lines drawn? Again, probably very low chance of it happening, but it only takes one incident to cause serious damage.

Sure, they do not have the right to tell you what to do with your property, but that doesn't mean that they should leave the door open to make messing with this stuff easy either.

But do not get me wrong...I do agree it's a bummer that the days of Cleland codes and the like may be over.

#667 3 months ago
Quoted from apessino:

You might be surprised to find out that you don't own *any* of the software you use (unless you wrote it yourself), Apple or not. You don't own any of the movies you have "bought" or the contents of any books either - sure you might own the pinball machine's hardware, the phone itself or the paper the book is printed on, but the IP is only licensed to you. The software in you pins and all the assets that come with it are not yours even if they are in your home - it is entirely in the IP's owners rights (and legal obligations, in fact) to control and protect them.

That’s an excellent point. Buy a movie and you can watch it at home but you’re not allowed to sell tickets for a public performance.
Ownership is not quite as simple as some people think it is.

#668 3 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

True but it is Stern's job to protect their assets. Stern and licensors are not going to be happy if all their games show up on location with unauthorized code, animations, and music. Location games earn money and that is the key.

If I pay $8k + for a consumer product, I own it, not the manufacturer. Stern can put QR on their machines but the owner should ultimately have the right to choose if they want it connected for ads, code updates, etc. If it is being leased, that is different.

At the end of the day, I dont see how Stern can force buyers to activate their QR system if they don't want it. We just wont connect it to WIFI. However, if Stern tries to make it that the only way code updates can be applied is via this system, they are essentially trying to gain control of the machine after it leaves. That is BS and will hurt their sales in the long run (the ridiculous price increases are already going to do that).

#669 3 months ago
Quoted from apessino:

You might be surprised to find out that you don't own *any* of the software you use (unless you wrote it yourself), Apple or not. You don't own any of the movies you have "bought" or the contents of any books either - sure you might own the pinball machine's hardware, the phone itself or the paper the book is printed on, but the IP is only licensed to you. The software in you pins and all the assets that come with it are not yours even if they are in your home - it is entirely in the IP's owners rights (and legal obligations, in fact) to control and protect them.

This is correct. I once had a book that I had purchased removed from my Kindle by Amazon with no remuneration for my loss. One day it was there...the next it was gone. Some court case was going on, so everyone who bought that title suddenly didn't "own" it anymore. Ridiculous.

#670 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

It’s not “their” asset once they sell it to you. If you think that, here’s a good movie for you
[quoted image]

You've still not heard of licensing after decades of this being all over the news? Don't be so obtuse.

#671 3 months ago

The laws really should be revamped. For your own personal use there should be more protections to the consumer. I get 'putting it out there' being a problem, but companies spend too much money on trying to stop people from doing things than putting that money to useful things that actually would make the product better.

#672 3 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

The laws really should be revamped. For your own personal use there should be more protections to the consumer. I get 'putting it out there' being a problem, but companies spend too much money on trying to stop people from doing things than putting that money to useful things that actually would make the product better.

FTC is supposed to be focusing on "right to repair", etc (see the recent investigation into McD's ice cream machines, John Deere, etc)...i do wonder if Stern will get some awkward attention as a part of that.

#673 3 months ago
Quoted from Muymanwell:

FTC is supposed to be focusing on "right to repair", etc (see the recent investigation into McD's ice cream machines, John Deere, etc)...i do wonder if Stern will get some awkward attention as a part of that.

Get real. There are more broken McDs ice cream machines than stern pinball machines ever made.

No one other than pinside gives a crap about the pinball industry as it is too small.

Besides there is no issue with right to repair when you can buy node boards for $100.

#674 3 months ago

I don't think Stern is going to make it mandatory for your pinball to be connected to the internet to update. Just look at video games if you want to play online you need to connect to the internet but if you just want to update you can always just download it to a USB and update. As far as code is concerned Stern has a good reasons to protect it and I respect that. I would also like to say if there's a will there's a way so. Hacker's love a challenge.

#675 3 months ago
Quoted from sushko:

I don't think Stern is going to make it mandatory for your pinball to be connected to the internet to update. Just look at video games if you want to play online you need to connect to the internet but if you just want to update you can always just download it to a USB and update. As far as code is concerned Stern has a good reasons to protect it and I respect that. I would also like to say if there's a will there's a way so. Hacker's love a challenge.

I hope wifi update is not mandatory. Our internet can't do the code updates now, I have to have someone in town do it. We are still on dsl here

#676 3 months ago
Quoted from sushko:

I don't think Stern is going to make it mandatory for your pinball to be connected to the internet to update. Just look at video games if you want to play online you need to connect to the internet but if you just want to update you can always just download it to a USB and update. As far as code is concerned Stern has a good reasons to protect it and I respect that. I would also like to say if there's a will there's a way so. Hacker's love a challenge.

The reality is Stern can only do so much to protect their licensees. It isn't as if Stern is trying to make code with the goal someone hacks it. They do their best and that is really all they can do.

If they go to the length that they require all owners to not only have good WIFI access but also be connected to get any code or other necessary updates required to keep home based machines operating correctly, they risk angering many customers and hurting sales in the long haul IMO.

#677 3 months ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

The reality is Stern can only do so much to protect their licensees. It isn't as if Stern is trying to make code with the goal someone hacks it. They do their best and that is really all they can do.
If they go to the length that they require all owners to not only have good WIFI access but also be connected to get any code or other necessary updates required to keep home based machines operating correctly, they risk angering many customers and hurting sales in the long haul IMO.

With the amount of locations without WiFi I think you might be over worrying about this.

#678 3 months ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

The reality is Stern can only do so much to protect their licensees. It isn't as if Stern is trying to make code with the goal someone hacks it. They do their best and that is really all they can do.
If they go to the length that they require all owners to not only have good WIFI access but also be connected to get any code or other necessary updates required to keep home based machines operating correctly, they risk angering many customers and hurting sales in the long haul IMO.

Is there a thread for this topic?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-insider-connected

#679 3 months ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

If I pay $8k + for a consumer product, I own it, not the manufacturer. Stern can put QR on their machines but the owner should ultimately have the right to choose if they want it connected for ads, code updates, etc. If it is being leased, that is different.
At the end of the day, I dont see how Stern can force buyers to activate their QR system if they don't want it. We just wont connect it to WIFI. However, if Stern tries to make it that the only way code updates can be applied is via this system, they are essentially trying to gain control of the machine after it leaves. That is BS and will hurt their sales in the long run (the ridiculous price increases are already going to do that).

Price has nothing to do with it. Stern can do whatever they want when producing a game. If they want to blast ads on the screen or force you to logon to their network they can do that. You get to decide whether you buy their product or not. Once you buy a game, you are basically agreeing to their terms and not they other way around. That's just how it is.

#680 3 months ago

Wait, so, with this Stern Insider Connected stuff, what exactly would happen with offline play? (Please tell me we're not saying that an internet connection would be required to start a game...)

#681 3 months ago
Quoted from jonnyqtrek:

Wait, so, with this Stern Insider Connected stuff, what exactly would happen with offline play? (Please tell me we're not saying that an internet connection would be required to start a game...)

You wouldn't use Insider Connected with offline play. That feature won't work without wifi. It's my understanding that you can still play the game normally (like you've been doing) without any wifi.

#682 3 months ago
Quoted from jonnyqtrek:

Wait, so, with this Stern Insider Connected stuff, what exactly would happen with offline play? (Please tell me we're not saying that an internet connection would be required to start a game...)

Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

You wouldn't use Insider Connected with offline play. It won't work without wifi.

But you can still play a game normally like you have before insider connected. It’s not a requirement to play.

#683 3 months ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-insider-connected

This is a great place to get the latest insights on insider-connected

13
#684 3 months ago
Quoted from Green-Machine:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-insider-connected
This is a great place to get the latest insights on insider-connected

... and now back to the fantastic looking Godzilla pinball machine!

#685 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I think you missed the point. He’s saying (and I agree) Stern shouldn’t be fukn with OUR machines. Once you buy it, it’s yours to do whatever you want. Sure Stern can not honor the warranty if you hack it, but it’s no longer their machine - they sold it. That’s the definition of ownership. He was simply making the point that he didn’t want Stern mandating a connected machine back to big brother Gary’s office so he could start sniffing around and see what you’re doing with it. The option to turn this off isn’t an option. It better be “hell yes you can turn it off” and not required to simply play a game of pinball

sadly, software doesn't work like that. You are sold a right to use, you own the right to use the software, you do not own the software any more than stern owns the assets in the software. Hardware yup you can do what you like.

of course you can turn it off, simply by not connecting it in the first place. Or disabling the wifi dongle or unplugging the ethernet cable.

#686 3 months ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

I've never hacked any code. You completely missed my point. Get over yourself.

not sure what the aggression is for - but no you didn't hack the code and I never meant that - apologies. Someone hacked code that in my view should never have been hackable. I would be amazed if the new code stern puts out is changeable in the way the previous code has been.

With regards to the other things about stern making changes to your game, xbox, playstation, even your phone is online and gets updates but in every case you can say no, the same will be true for this but if you say no, you will still be able to play but you won't be able to do stuff online. However, Microsoft have proven that they have a right to remove service if they believe you are trying to circumvent their platform and the T&Cs notify you of that.

I think stern will continue to ship code updates via their website because lots of people won't have games online and often games don't ship with all the features promised at launch and they come later.

-1
#687 3 months ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

sadly, software doesn't work like that. You are sold a right to use, you own the right to use the software, you do not own the software any more than stern owns the assets in the software. Hardware yup you can do what you like.
of course you can turn it off, simply by not connecting it in the first place. Or disabling the wifi dongle or unplugging the ethernet cable.

You might be right in some cases, but not all. And Stern isn’t going to do anything if you hack a pin you bought except void the warranty

Here is a good example. Jailbreaking iPhones was court ruled legal to do

https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

Either way I’ve seen many reskinned, hacked, rethemed pins and I’m not aware of a single lawsuit. Feel free to post one if you know

#688 3 months ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:You might be right in some cases, but not all. And Stern isn’t going to do anything if you hack a pin you bought except void the warranty

You can expect them to try to shutdown people distributing modified software or attempts to circumvent their software controls. For the individual owners, you have to worry about Stern making more aggressive counter measures to prevent loading of unsigned code.

Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Here is a good example. Jailbreaking iPhones was court ruled legal to do
https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/
Either way I’ve seen many reskinned, hacked, rethemed pins and I’m not aware of a single lawsuit. Feel free to post one if you know

1) that jailbreaking case is not about who owns software - it was a defeat of a copyright angle Apple was trying to use to protect it's walled garden
2) Absence of lawsuits is not the same thing as claiming as you did before which was..

Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Once you buy it, it’s yours to do whatever you want. Sure Stern can not honor the warranty if you hack it, but it’s no longer their machine - they sold it. That’s the definition of ownership.

That mindset is not valid in most software distribution. You are buying an entitlement of use - not buying to own the software to do with as you please.

Stern isn't going to brick machines to be unusable - but I bet you see more Stern movement to make custom packages far more difficult... or do what is common in many gaming places. They don't stop you from using 3rd party stuff, they will just ban you from their services for violating their terms of use. So you'll have your custom code, but no access to functionality enabled through the online connection.

Lots of ways to punish 'bad behavior' which is nothing about suing owners or trying to invalidate prior game sales.

-1
#689 3 months ago

Well looks like you’ve solved hacking. Guess it will never happen again

#690 3 months ago

Biggest risk in my opinion is the removal of assets at the request of a license holder. I've seen that in other auto-update code platforms. Grand Theft Auto IV for example, ran a patch that removed a ton of music from the radio stations because the license for the songs had 'expired'. How pissed would I be to own a pinball machine that got 'worse' via a new 'feautre'.

#691 3 months ago

Check is in and cashed baybeee!!! When are the pros getting shipped to locations? My people are hungry!

#692 3 months ago
Quoted from Drain-O:

Biggest risk in my opinion is the removal of assets at the request of a license holder. I've seen that in other auto-update code platforms. Grand Theft Auto IV for example, ran a patch that removed a ton of music from the radio stations because the license for the songs had 'expired'. How pissed would I be to own a pinball machine that got 'worse' via a new 'feautre'.

Imagine that happening on any of the music pins stern loves to make.

#693 3 months ago

SUCH a good call! Fu Manchu rips

Quoted from Wolfanoz:

Don't forget the Fu Manchu version too.

#694 3 months ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

This is correct. I once had a book that I had purchased removed from my Kindle by Amazon with no remuneration for my loss. One day it was there...the next it was gone. Some court case was going on, so everyone who bought that title suddenly didn't "own" it anymore. Ridiculous.

Yeah that happens with those shady romance novel publishers....

Rob

7dd0eb9c5c03c7d2071deb475c5b3974 (resized).jpg
#695 3 months ago

Does anyone know what color powder coat is being used for Godzilla Le?
Is it exact same as Mando????

#696 3 months ago
Quoted from K9Marshal:

Does anyone know what color powder coat is being used for Godzilla Le?
Is it exact same as Mando????

Screenshot_20210921-193408_Chrome (resized).jpg
#697 3 months ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

So is this pre-production or is this (what appears to be) paper city scape going to be the standard? Or is this sticker coated plastic...hard to tell
I was hoping for a vacuum formed background. This looks like the glue came undone on the seam folds and the building has what appears to be tears in it.
This was from the factory photos https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rae05gdrdbyu040/AAAUXLYJ7ZUlrhzA9Zz1UBo4a/Hi%20Res%20Gallery/Premium/Details-Strobe?dl=0&preview=Godzilla-Premium-Details-Strobe-30.JPG&subfolder_nav_tracking=1
[quoted image]

I hope that is not a sticker pealing off. They had the same problem with the Elvira trunk sticker. There was only a small overlap on one edge and it would lift up over time for many people.

#698 3 months ago

It’s silver metallic on Godzilla LE. It isn’t as dark or as dull as Mando LE. It will be the same or very similar to METLE.

17
#699 3 months ago

Dang it Stern! I went from…never thinking I’d own a modern pin, to what looks like will be my 3rd in less than a year.
Bought AIQ premium in June, Stranger Things Pro in August, and now I’m in on the second run of Godzilla Premium set for early 2022.
I can’t afford this stuff. HELP!
I promise. This is the last one for a while! Yeah! I promise!!!! I PROMMMMIIIISE!!!!

#700 3 months ago

Anyone else like to NOT watch too much of a reveal or gameplay before actually spending time on the game?

Godzilla looks fantastic to me, but I want to learn it on my own and then watch video if I want...

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