Not necessarily. How about WWE, Avatar, RS, etc...

That's the funny thing with the way Stern puts out games.

If the game is a hit, they will be making it for a long time, so there's no need to hurry.

If the game is a flop, they won't keep making it, but better to have not rushed in to purchase.

I see the LE as a roll of the dice. You can do well if the game is a success but it also has the biggest downside.

As popular as Met is, does anyone know if METLE commands a big premium these days over it's initial price?

Game looks great! Glad I'm not in love with the LE so don't feel any pressure to buy without playing it first.

I think it's a neat idea but different isn't always better. The thing about traditional slings is you can anticipate their behavior. Seems like the magnets may be an even greater randomizer. I wouldn't enjoy hitting a sling shot and have the magnets fling the ball down the middle.

I also like the pro cab and translite the best. Get some dark blue powdercoated armor for the win.

Question. For those who have pre-ordered, will your distributor refund your deposit if you ask? If so, is there a cut-off date?

In that case, there is no risk in pre-ordering.

Do all the distributors offer this?

Well then, I will adjust my thinking regarding Stern pre-orders. No harm in pre-ordering to buy a little time until enough information is revealed to make a final decision. Thanks for the info.

Now I'm confused. I was thinking "a little more time" was more than 48hrs after initial photo reveal. Is this the same for all distributors or can you get better terms if you shop around?

If this is the case, there's no chance to see gameplay video. What if you don't want any of the versions, does your distributor hold your deposit until the next title?

Edit: This probably belongs in it's own thread. I will wait a few months until the GB pre-order has run its course and bring it up again when the issue is not so immediate. It's too late for me anyway but I would like to know for the future.

That's a nice full featured looking Pro! I like the sounds, display and lighting effects. Now that's the way to tie in a theme!

Would like to see the ability to cancel the mystery award animations with the flippers.

Hit flippers to go directly to the final awards page. Hit them again to immediately collect all awards.

Art can prevent me from buying a game. AC/DC and BSD are a couple of examples but not GOT.
Great art is not enough to get me to buy a game but it's a good start.

I think it would be more exciting if they gave each multiplication level a different name and sound callout. Ie., Jackpot, Super Jackpot, Mega ..., Mega Super, etc...

I like when you can tell what you're collecting by the sound alone.

LOL

I guess it might be easier to just add a 1x, 2x, 3x, etc.. callout in front of the "Super Jackpot". Code is still early, I bet they will have some way to let the player know what the Super Jackpot multiplication level is since it's such a major part of the game.

One major difference with magnets is that they pull the ball towards them versus slingshots that push the ball away. So with traditional slingshots a ball that is getting pushed from sling to sling tends to go up the playfield. With magnets it seems that when a ball moving upwards hit's the top sling switch it will get pulled back down towards the flippers.

In any case, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this works. I imagine it will take a bit of experimentation for them to get the effects they want.

As much as it would be nice to have all the mechs included in the game. I like that they are offering cool software controlled mechs as an option. Since it's an add-on, perhaps they can put more into them and just price accordingly.

Hah! Hobbit is already shipping so you can cross it off your list.

If I'm not mistaken, the magnet can only attract a steel ball, regardless of the polarity.

I think Stern has hit on a brilliant marketing strategy.

I would be sharpening my pitchfork if they included a color display, topper and crossing stream mechs but added $1000 to the game price.

As optional mods I'm happy they're offered and then Pro buyers can also purchase.

Edit: GOT opinion removed. Why am I posting a GOT opinion in a GB thread? Doh!

But what If I like the right ramp return to the left flipper? Oh the decisions...

Hmm...maybe I should wait until I actually see it in action.

Though cool, I don't think the subway ramp will effect play much. The crossover ramp is significant, especially if it can be backhanded by the right flipper as it would allow you to return the ball to either flipper from either flipper.

It would be good to turn it off for league/tournament play.

I entered the relationship with 25 games in storage, so my wife knew what she was getting into. Even though she isn't thrilled with our garage loaded up with projects, the other day she sent me a link to a game someone was selling. That surprised me.

I already like the way Slimer sort of floats vertically in the pro. If it floats similarly in the premium with added horizontal movement covering the area you've drawn, I think it's going to be a very cool and unique toy.

The premium is so much better than the pro and I heard the pro is already deeper than LOTR. Will definitely be in the top 1 of all time.

In my opinion, Stern's marketing is brilliant. If you keep some things unknown, people will buy based on hype, speculation and hope for a great game, as proven by the LE being sold out without a single gameplay video.

If the game turns out to be a great player, they will continue to sell a bunch of premiums. If not, at least they got the LE's sold out.

Is that you Gary?

Because they look great! Take LOTR for example. The detail the color brings out in the animations is fantastic as compared to the mono-colored alternative, even at the resolution of a DMD.

I would bet on Color DMD eventually making a display for GB. It just takes one capable owner who is willing to colorize his game and Color DMD making their hardware compatible with Spike.

double post

Some I do, some not so much.

I think the further you get the more random it should get.

The LEs sold out very quickly, so buyers are saying Stern is offering plenty of value for the money.

I don't see how Stern can be accused of gouging, at least in the case of the LE.

It's possible they may cause the sides of the game to collapse inwards from the pull of the magnets.

My HP 11C calculator has been working problem free for the last 35 years, so I'm not worried about the Slimer toy breaking either...

I just don't see the magna slings ever being able to mimic a normal sling. The angles and physics are too different.

Doesn't mean they will be bad though. They will just offer a different playing experience.

Edit: That's one of the things I like about John Trudeau's designs. He's willing to try something different.

I don't think it will be a crapshoot and I think we'll have to see gameplay before determining if we like or dislike the results.

Given a consistent magnetic pulse length I would expect somewhat consistent results given a similar input, ie. speed, angle and where the ball hits the sling.

Just like on a regular sling, playfield pitch, sling rubber, switch sensitivity, etc... all play a part.

Difference is, I expect the results will be opposite of normal. Usually, a ball hitting high on the slingshot will be pushed upwards. With magnets, a ball hitting high on the slingshot will be pulled downwards.

I'm not quite sure why people think this is only good for GB but not other games.

If it's a really cool alternative to traditional slings and adds to gameplay, why not use it on other games?

If it significantly detracts from gameplay it would be better if it weren't in GB. They could have used the typical center magnet(s) to mess with the ball in a "ghostly" way.

I thumbed up your post so you're back to neutral. Wouldn't want you to walk around being negative.

Edit: Also, you are correct.

A somewhat predictable mechanism that adds both excitement and danger to a game and can be influenced by nudging.

Will be nice to have a slower more thoughtful game instead the endless speed and in your face action of a game like IM.

There are many things in a pinball machine that contribute to the randomness versus control.

In my opinion, players want to feel they have some shot of beating the machine and they want to be entertained. Too much randomness and players will walk away. Not enough randomness and the game is too easy, players get bored and they walk away.

Less random magna slings could be a really good thing for GB.

More random magna slings could be a really good thing for GB.

It's subjective and there's no way of even getting a consensus until the game is out with decent code and a bunch of people have had a chance to play it.

It's still fun to speculate though.

I think Stern has a lot of experience with the way they market games.

One thing to consider. By delaying the video on the premium, people who are anxious to get the game will buy the pro instead of waiting.

If the premium is really good, many of these pro buyers will upgrade down the line, so Stern makes two sales instead of just one.

Unless they try to do something tricky like hold the ball, then drop to the flipper or transfer to the other magnet. In which case, mylar should protect the playfield.

Anyone know why they didn't put mylar down over the Sanctum on Shadow at the factory?

I would probably put a full circle over each core.

I was just watching someone play. Looked like a good player (judging by his flipper control) but the game was brutal. Most of the drains were down the middle. Don't think he scored more than 10M in 5 games. Then he opened the game up, so must have been the owner.

I think the right ramp return to the left flipper may make a significant difference to gameplay. Also, I expect the greater mobility of the slimer toy and magna slings could significantly affect gameplay.

Looks good. The magna slings don't seem nearly as active as regular slings and on the rare occasions where the ball bounces back and forth between them, it actually slows down rather than speeding up like normal slings would do.

I think this tones down some of the difficulty seen on the pro and makes for a better balanced game.

If the switch is adjusted to make it more sensitive, there may be a problem with chatter. Though this could probably be fixed by debouncing the switch in software. I think it's going to just take a lot of trial and error to get the action they want.

That being said, there seems to be plenty of action in the game already, even with the somewhat dead slings, so maybe this is exactly the action they want. Don't think more is needed.

Edit: They could include a "slingshot switch debounce time" setting in the software so that people can set-up the sensitivity to their liking. If I were Stern, I would do this as it saves them the trouble of trying to find the perfect balance that not everyone will be happy with anyway.

Off topic segue on bad language:

We often hear people say, "what's the big deal if a pinball machine has bad or offensive language, children hear far worse and that's just part of everyday life".

First, I agree children hear (and say) far worse language, I would say comparable to most R rated films, at a pretty young age. I think this is fairly normal. They just don't do it in front of their parents. My recollection is it started at around 8 years old for me (back in 1971 in a middle class suburb in CA).

They don't do it in front of their parents because they are usually taught that it is inappropriate. So, children learn where and when it's okay to use "bad" language. I tend to agree that indiscriminately using bad language is socially frowned upon in many circles and often reflects poorly on the person doing it.

In a similar way, a pinball machine using bad language is indiscriminate in who it affects, other than it's location. So, I can understand parents who are trying to teach their children where and when bad language is appropriate being concerned with such language in a game that they choose to put on display in their home, as it tacitly condones that behavior.

I think it's much easier for kids to separate the make believe violence in video games and movies from real life. Modes of conduct are pretty clear cut and most children don't see the people around them going around shooting people or robbing banks, etc...

Language is a lot more subtle and I would argue its use (or misuse) will have a bigger impact on their lives.

I'm actually less concerned with trying to control what my child is exposed to as I am with being consistent in whatever it is I am trying to teach them.

I only watched the video for a bit. Was there much action to the crossover ramp? That's one of the major differences between the Pro and the Premium/LE.

Because little action from the slings makes the game play better. Since people were afraid it would play worse, showers of love.

I only watched for about 30min, but I think that's pretty accurate. All the high and low shots that would have kicked a standard slingshot did nothing (other than bounce off the rubber) and the center shots weren't particularly sensitive either.

May have had something to do with the angle of the slingshots, but people say the slingshots on the pro are very active.

Not worried about Stern putting in a family mode setting. They want to sell as many machines as possible. But, as to the general off topic discussion.

Exactly! I am personally not offended by bad language but try to be considerate of others who might not feel the same way.

Regarding Pro vs Pre/LE debate:

Does the dip below the playfield ramp return and subway lock on the Pre/LE really add much value?

From what I could see, the dip under the playfield was hardly noticeable and haven't really heard much mentioned about how cool the effect was. I do like the metal ramp though.

A hidden lock doesn't seem much different than a virtual lock. Biggest difference is the hidden lock steals the ball from the inlane feed. Don't know if this is good, bad or indifferent.

Really liked the way Slimer floated on the Pro, it's a great fit for the ghost theme. Was looking forward to the Pre/LE having a similar movement and adding left to right.

Was also hoping you could backhand the right ramp on the Pre/LE to get the ball over to the left flipper, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Do people who have played the game feel it's too right flipper centric? Is there a good way to get the ball over to the left flipper?

Like that the magna slings aren't as active making the game a little easier. I guess you can reduce the sensitivity of the slings on the PRO to get a similar affect but you won't get the other tricks they do with the magnets.

Need to see the ecto goggles in person to see how cool the effect is. If similar to RFM I think it will be very nice.

The 3d sculpts on the premium are very nice.

I like the artwork on the Pro the best.

My initial impressions without having played either game are: the Pro is full featured and it seems like you may not be giving up much play wise. I'm a little disappointed in the Pre/LE but think it still offers enough to differentiate it from the Pro. Unlike say ST pro vs Pre which are so similar. Or GOT Pro vs Pre where there is a lot of differentiation but only because the Pro is so stripped down.

Good point and probably the most significant difference to game play. Still like the way he floats on the Pro though. Can you time the shot on the Pro so that the ball goes past him while still registering a hit?

You can also see the gumball machine and track where the power ball is in the rotation at all times (an important aspect of game strategy). So it provides useful information in a very cool mechanical way.

To me, a ball that is locked under the playfield and out of view might as well be virtual as it doesn't provide any information. You don't even get see to how it's locked so it's kind of a non-event. Granted, having another chance at a skill shot is nice, but not particularly cool or that significant to gameplay, IMO.

Better to save the money on that mech and put it into something else, like maybe giving Slimer vertical as well as horizontal movement or RGB general illumination..

I'm not arguing that there is zero value there or that the Pro is better. I'm just saying that when I'm comparing the two models, that feature doesn't add that much value to me. I would have rather they spent the funds and development time on something with more impact.

I don't see anything wrong with making "your" game play the way "you" like it.

I think every new title brings a different set of uber-fans out of the woodwork. The older and more loved a theme the more passionate the fan base. They all seem somewhat similar.

Unless of course it is a new JJP title, then the same set of uber-haters show up.

If people's initial impressions are bad enough, they may not want to come back and get to know the table.

For the people who like their games tough, I suggest installing lightening flippers and removing the outposts on all your games.

Voila! Instantly make any game brutal and super fun!

At the rate Stern is cranking out games, I think JT and Dwight did an amazing job on GB. To come up with a unique and interesting playfield layout and a completely coded game (meaning everything is there, not things people would like to be different) is quite an accomplishment.

I expect there will be another round or two of polishing, but do people think JT and Dwight will have the luxury of lingering much longer on GB before having to move onto the next project?

Sounds a little like my pinball projects. The more I add the further I fall behind.

GB is released and pretty much done. I wonder what his next game is going to be. Gotta keep new titles in the pipeline.

That's a really nice jacket. Too bad it represents such a terrible movie...... (ducks)

Are you sure you can handle that much fun?

But the theme and artwork are so good it makes you willing to go the extra mile to see if the things that bother you can be corrected.

First, I like JT. I think he is creative in his designs and I always look forward to his next reveal.

That being said, do you think everything a designer comes up with is good, just because he "chooses" it?

I guess the question is, was that a good way to set the game up?

From peoples responses, I would say the general consensus is "yes" if you are a more experienced player in a home environment and like a tough game.

Similar to WOZ, the family friendly theme and cartoony artwork will attract new, inexperienced players.

For these players and those who don't like tough, short ball time games, the answer might be "no".

The good thing is it's not too difficult to change the set-up so that it appeals to players who want a more approachable game.

The challenge may be in finding a set-up that works for both types of player.

There are times when even the designer, in hindsight, will admit that an intentional design aspect of the game was a mistake.

Example, Steve R. with regards to too many shots in the fan layout of No Fear or the punishing outlanes on STTNG. Both basic "bones" of the layout.

A game with a really high score from someone who put carrot flippers on is one data point.

We've seen hours of play on the standard machine with most players having very short ball times and getting very low scores.

It would be interesting to see a similar hours long video on a game with carrot flippers. The carrot flippers may also allow you to adjust the flipper angle to make it easier to trap the ball and still make the outer shots.

I remember listening to an interview about the Gottlieb days and all the effort they put into evaluating games in test locations. Goal being to find just the right level of difficulty so that the players felt they received decent value for their coin and the operator made money.

This is what most people are doing.

I think only one person who's been acting trollish in a variety of threads did that.

They may have tested both old and new at the same time in the same set-up to do a direct one-on-one comparison and verify the new one worked better.

I just put a machine with standard glass next to the Hobbit. After playing the machine with standard glass my wife tried to touch the playfield on the Hobbit and was surprised when her fingers hit the glass.

I would normally keep quiet, but this is just too ironic coming from the guy who does the exact same thing in Hobbit threads.

Okay, that is a distinction but having the same opinions repeated ad nauseum gets tiring wherever it occurs, wouldn't you agree?

Problem or non-problem is in the eye of the beholder.

At least Rarehero is buying the game so he is very vested in fixing the flaws he perceives. Voicing his opinions may result in a better game for him as well as others.

Ball is 1 1/16"

I'm surprised the gap is 1/2" bigger. I think someone said the carrot flippers are 1/8" longer. If so, that would still leave 1/4" wider gap which might be just right.

I don't think it's just about easy or difficult. It seems like people are trying to figure out why the game isn't "fun" to them so they can make the necessary changes to make it fun. Art, theme and sound are winners.