WOZ is out in the wild, it is a "kid friendly" theme, and yet it has not set the world on fire - not even with the youth.

The number one earning game again this month is WNBJM - a game with a score reel.

Creating the graphics for the LCD could cost more than dots for a dmd It isn't all about the hardware

I'd rather have score reels anyway

So the score reel on WNBJM set the world on fire?

Number-one-earning-game-in-the-country.

-

No color DMD, no LCD, no Alpha Numeric Displays; just raw earning power.

WNBJM is pretty rare out here on the west coast, I have not heard of a single one on location in a 150 mile radius of where I live. WOZ still gets a lot of attention and quarters on location. Personally, I think the LCD is a neat feature, but it doesn't change how fun the game is. A lot of the dot animations Stern has put out that are basically scenes from movies do look pretty horrible, so an update wouldn't hurt. There is a reason color DMD is so popular.

Which makes me think they'll rely on video clips instead of animations, which would be a huge bummer. I love good dot art, and trading it for video clips would suck.

So your saying all future pinball releases should be based on this model? I mean what is your point?

That looks cool, because, Twilight Zone was in B&W and came out when black and white TV's were the thing. My point is, its 2016. Time to get with the times and put modern tech into pinball machines at Stern.

I think hes saying that display isn't that important, I agree as its the last thing that would keep me coming back to play a pin. I'm not saying I don't want LCD or like DMD's etc. just that its no big deal for some of us. I'm not buying WOZ or TH because there not my style so how is that beautiful display helping with the overall appeal, its not is the answer, I would rather play Stargazer to be honest.

There just are not enough of WNBJM out there for the route numbers to be meaningful to anybody but the particular operator that is taking in the money. If there were 2500 made and one was placed at most big arcades then the numbers would be more meaningful as to how the game stacks up with other mainstream pins. Having a low number out there leaves us with the novelty factor. I would play one at least a few times if I saw one, but who knows how much I would come back to it after the initial novelty wore off and there are other games to play.

https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/whoa-nellie-big-juicy-melons-stern/owners

If anyone wants a brand new machine with scoring reels, versus a ColorDMD or LCD, then its probably best to just stick with older machines in your collection. If I am paying $7-8K for a NIB machine, released in 2016 - by the largest pinball manufacturer in the world (Stern) - I want technology that is current in 2016.

We all know WNBJM gets quarters and earns a lot because of the artwork appealing to horny men, not because it actually is a great game. Imagine TWD or MET with scoring reels. Give me a break here. I just don't see the points being made here to keep DMD's old school vs moving to modern times. What is the benefit of keeping a DMD? None. What are the advantages of moving to a modern display? Many.

Stern has already said they are developing a next generation display system, so the arguments of scoring reels and keeping DMD's is invalid at this point in time as Stern even agrees that the DMD era is coming to an end. It's already confirmed, done.

Since this is a GB related speculation thread, I am just arguing that this next gen display be implemented in this particular game, because it ups the value proposition and is needed at this point in time. Animations of slimer in red dots will suck compared to a properly colorized LCD or ColorDMD setup. Why would anyone *NOT* want that in this title? If you want old school games, there are plenty to choose from on Craigslist... I want new games to look and feel new. Plenty of nostalgia in the marketplace currently to choose from.

If GB came out with a WNBJM style scoring display, who would be happier with that vs a DMD or even Color LCD? Wouldn't you feel ripped? There would be outrage, thats for sure. So the comparison to WNBJM is kind of dumb, really.

Like it or not LCDs are the future of New pins just as LEDs have become the standard. Only question is when will Stern get with the times.

I feel the LCD use on WOZ is in it's infancy. The Technology has not been integrated to it's potential. Does WOZ earn well on location? I believe it does. Is it the next best thing for pinball because of the LCD? Does WOZ use the LCD effectively enough to draw in a new generation of players? Does WOZ earn more with a LCD then it would have if it didn't have one? I don't know. I am just throwing out my opinion that I think a lot can be done to attract newer players to pinball with a LCD including educating new players on what to do on a pinball machine so they are not lost. Gaming APPS on Smart phones do this with most games to introduce the player and get them started. Comparing WOZ to WNBJM doesn't make sense. WNBJM might be the current top earner but I find it hard pressed to say that this is the future direction that pinball should go in. It is a one or two off that is doing well. I am a fan of it. It's irrelevant to this argument. I agree an LCD is not a big deal currently to us pinheads. My point is for the operator and future pinhead interest. I think pinball needs to attract new players. WNBJM has an it factor that makes it fun i would assume...as I haven't had the opportunity to play it yet.

Who really cares about earning. Pinball machines are more popular with home collectors than arcades and locations now.

Really, who here would really want WNBJM in their game room *instead* of WOZ? Seriously think about that. Unless you are a grown man who likes to collect posters of scantily clad cartoon ladies on your wall, most people would take WOZ in a second. I could care less which machine gets more quarters in it.

If WNBJM was the same exact game, but artwork of some random guy on it instead of the girl theme- I assure you it would have never been made, and a single quarter wouldn't be dropped in it any where. We all know why that game is doing ok right now on location, and it isn't because its simple old school layout and scoring display.

Any pin with Judy garland as its main character probably isn't going to ignite a new pinball frenzy amongst today's youth...regardless of how cool and innovative it is.

I do.

Ok, I am sure there are people who buy these things to make money - but I would think many are people who buy them for home entertainment purposes. I would probably say 90% of Pinside users..

It seems like the sample size of that operator survey for WNBJM is so small that it may not be accurate. It's less respondents than pretty much everything else in the top 10.

One interesting thing I've observed about the LCD/DMD comparisons is that completely virtual pinball machines on Pinball FX / Zen Pinball actually use a simulated DMD as part of the games.

It almost seems like DMDs are just something the general public expects of Pinball machines.

I like the idea of keeping DMDs, but in color. ColorDMD's from the factory at Stern and colorized would be awesome.. thats all a pinball machine really needs. Even something like TBL. WOZ and TH have huge LCD's which are cool, but I don't expect Stern to follow suit and I wouldn't be disappointed if they didn't go that route. ColorDMD is perfect.

What is the percentage of machines purchased for the home market vs operations? Any clue anyone?

Who is "We"? Feel free to express your (wrong) opinion, but you don't speak for the rest of us. My Whoa Nellie is on location in a very Liberal area (SF Bay Area) and earns well. The location is attended by lots of ranked players who loathe crappy-playing pins and they like WNBJM and go back to it. It's fun and it plays great. Women and children like it, too. I've seen many little kids choose it first over the 13 other pins there (all DMD). So, your pompous "horny men" argument is bogus.

Apologies for taking the GB thread further off topic. It just irks me when certain people think they speak for everyone.

Regarding GB, I really hope they announce a Premium at launch. It would be great to get all the features without having to (pre) order an LE. Not to mention the Slimer LE images are a bit loud.

To be fair he said if you had to choose between WOZ and juicy melons for a home game room...

I'd have to agree. I'm not a 'ranked player' (whatever the heck that is!!) but I find big titty melons to be tear jerkingly boring.

And I'm not even a Judy garland fan...

No worries.
Stern will milk this titles for ever scrap dollar they can get.
There will be Premiums run.

I really didn't mean for my statement to cause the thread to get off track...my apologies. I just feel GB would be a fantastic fit for a LCD. I also think if done right it could draw in more players. JMHO

You will have a hard time believing it, but WNBJM was in the lineup for the European Pinball Championship... players actually enjoyed it, and one of the four finalists even chose it for the final round. He would have still chosen it if some random guy was on it instead of the girl theme. Not that the theme hurts by the way.

WoZ is a great game too. But I have no problem understanding a collector choosing WNBJM. Even one without posters of scantily clad cartoon ladies.

Disclaimer: Love both, own neither.

Just wondering...how much time have you actually put on WNBJM?

Thank you NorCal! I was wondering the same thing.

I looked it up. I can go for a test ride 7 miles from my house!! I want the Batmobile one! They are between $22 and $26k!

Capture_(resized).JPG

The dude pulled up next to me at a stop light. I shit you not, I asked "What in the blue fuck is that?"

I've never talked to another motorist on the road like that except when I was out of mustard, but that damn thing was crazy.

I would buy one if I was rich and less handsome.

Played it at the Arcade Expo a month or so ago. Zero interest in it, even the WWE machine next to it drew more of a crowd. It was in the Marco tent with TWD, GoT, etc and definitely had the least interest in it.

It's not a horrible game, but why people compare this simple game and simple display system with games with LCD's based on earnings is a bit weird to me. So, should Stern only crank out games like this from now on?

If Ghostbusters came out in a similar format like WNBJM or a modern machine with a color LCD, which one would earn more and be appreciated and more desirable to home collectors? That's not even a question that should be asked, because if anyone wanted GB to be similar to WNBJM needs to get their heads checked.

Do you even know what the hell are you talking about?

WNBJM is a GREAT playing game.

Everyone says this, but I imagine it is a lot easier to draw and create quality images for an LCD than for a DMD. Trying to draw any usable artwork with the low resolution of a DMD looks very challenging. Source images from licensors would translate more easily to an LCD. Ability to use color would aid drawing. There are most likely more software options for artwork creation as well.

I'm sure it is, to you and some other people. To me, it was cool for about 5 mins then I was ready to move on.

Stern should keep putting out a variety of different style games.

Just because you can't find value in WNBJM, the coin spending public likes it more than any other pin right now.

That's what is important.

Me.
Both games are spectacles, and one is slightly less unappealing than the other. But, obviously not everyone's tastes are the same. I just can't get my head around the WOZ theme, or the music- no matter how impressive the display is.

Btw, I'd also talk WNBJM over WWE - just can't stand that theme either.

Stern just posted a very suspicious picture on Facebook. I smell a sneak peek in the works!

Gary Stern said that currently almost 20% of games went to collectors.

If we are waiting for an announcement from Stern, shouldn't the Stern Facebook page be going Black right about now...

Electric Eel vs Fathom Ghost (from coast to coast).

12745995_10153931995989244_4762691537721608128_n_(resized).jpg

I'm glad there are tits in pinball again

That's what's important? Maybe to arcade operators. Definitely not people who like machines in their house. I only speak for people who spend thousands on a machine to play in their house, that has the playability and entertainment factor to last a long time, and in many cases, years.

Just because WNBJM eats quarters for some fun time at a local pub, doesn't mean it has the last ability of a home machine. That's my point.

Since this is a GB thread, do you prefer that GB have a similar layout, display, and similar configuration as WNBJM, simply because it "makes more money"?

Who would want that? Please, speak up if you do.

Again, I'm not sure you know what you are talking about.

I have a WNBJM in my house.

So do 3 of my clients that I service.

It is a hard game, with great rules and great layout.

That's cool

Would you prefer GB in a similar format to it then? If it was in a similar format, would it make more money as a WNBJM format than the typical modern format like TWD, GoT, MET, WOZ, TH, etc?

Apparently your point is that WNBJM is making more money than any other game because of its retro format and display. So why wouldn't you think GB would do better in that format. Just trying to see your logic and your side of the argument, that's all.

Stern has already decided to launch a new nextgen display, but based on what you say- and the fact WNBJM is making a lot of money for operators, do you think they should scrap that idea and just make future games just like WNBJM, just because "money maker"?

I hope you're right. Who ya gonna call?

I'll try to summarize the discussion re: WNBJM:

1) people are upset GB probably won't have LCD.
2) someone chimed in that LCDs are important for the future of location pinball
3) others pointed out that WNBJM, a game with a mechanical score reel, is a top earning game (and excellent besides)
4) some argue the greatness of WNBJM tends to show score displays aren't that important.

And here we are. I don't think anyone thinks GB should be like WNBJM (I sure don't), but I hope GB ends up being as fantastic in its own way.

No, you are missing the point.

WNBJM is making the most money because it is a great game.

If GB is a great game, it will have to stand on it's own merits.

Score reels, LCD, DMD, Alpha....nothing will save it if it's not a great game.

NELLY oops I mean GHOSTBUSTERS

You only speak for yourself. Tastes are subjective. Why is that so hard to understand?