Would a playfield protector help here?

Can someone explain what clear coat has to do with ghosting. I am very ignorant here on this. I look at ghosting as a LED issue and I am not sure why the clear coat would have anything to do with it. Why does clear coat cause something with LEDs?
The shaker motor jiggling everything around makes more sense to me.

I have a red tremor that was on maximum for 2 months and i have only a tiny amount of ghosting on one insert that hasnt changed

Its not LED ghosting, but a milky gap between clear coat finish, and playfield, most notably on the inserts.
Scroll back a few pages or peek at other threads to see pics for clarification.

Ok so I was totally barking up the wrong tree on what the issue actually is. Thanks for the quick explanation.

I just looked back and looked at KPG and now I see. So ghosting can be referenced for LED or this leaking look. That's worse looking than the LED issue in my eyes and I better not see that on my unit.

I think every Gnr I ever saw had ghosting under the inserts...never saw a Gnr with chipped inserts though

Wow man - sorry to hear that you have the same problem! Hit up your distributor. Seems way too coincidental both our playfields and games were built the same day, and we are having ghosting issues on the same inserts. Wouldnt surprise me to see the Add a ball one get worse. Keep us posted what happens w/ your distributor working with Stern.

Dan Aykroyd experienced ghosting on his unit and didn't seem to mind.

I saw the pinball-universe upgrade kit referenced, and I actually think I really need it because my captive lane is already dinged to where I have to pull it back out. Anyone know how to get it though? Looks like p-u ships to Germany only and I can't find it anywhere else (LE here, fwiw)?

Add another ball to it. The rail will still bend but wont lock the single ball in place. Mine did push the right sides led cap off though.

Same word.. used differently.

Ghosting when referring to playfield clearcoat refers to the clearcoat detaching from the surface below it.. leaving a milky colored pocket under the clearcoat. Think of it as the hard clearcoat popping off and leaving a gap underneth it. It can be caused by movement, contamination, or adhesion failures. It's usually seen on plastic inserts because the plastic is different from the painted wood surface and inserts can move relative to the wood PF.

Ghosting with LEDs is when an game CPU controlled LED fires or blinks faintly unintentionally due to the way controlled lights are multiplexed and voltage thresholds.

Thanks for the tip! Funny that I've had more issues in one weekend with this game than a couple years with my Metallica. Love the game itself, thank goodness. Everything seems pretty top-notch other than the build quality, which has been quite disappointing so far.

So that shaker motor probably should stay off for like a month after buying it to give it more time to dry. I think I will leave it off for awhile.

Has anyone seen ghosting on the Pro's that don't have a shaker motor on them?

Just went out and checked my pro that is a location game with no shaker.
After 3 weeks of location play with no shaker every insert is perfect.

Maybe there is something to this shaker causing the ghosting

I think we need a poll. Flash?

Not sure if this has been mentioned but if the playfield has a stamp on it of July 7, is it possible these new playfields haven't fully cured before installing into a game? I know when I've bought CPR playfields they say to wait 30-45 days after you receive the playfield before playing a game on them.-the playfields are typically a few weeks old by the time you receive it. Using this as a reference you shouldn't really be playing any games on a game with a July 7 playfield until around Sept 7 (60 days).

This is what was on CPR's site:
1. CURE DATE

OPEN UPON ARRIVAL. DO NOT LEAVE BOXED UP. LET PLAYFIELD SIT IN OPEN AIR.

Due to the swift post-production distribution of playfields to waiting customers, it is almost certain that the polyeurethane clearcoat on
your new playfield when arrived in your possession is only 2 to 3 weeks old. Therefore, the cure date for your playfield is recommended
to be 30 days after receipt. Mark your calendar, and don't skimp on the 30 days. 45 days is even better.

In the meantime, you CAN perform your swap before the cure date if you want. This can be a time consuming and meticulous
process, even for the experienced. So if you want to get a head start, go ahead. Completely swap, just don't play on it.

If this is true, then why is this now only becoming a big issue with Stern machines? Maybe they are really manufacturing playfields in-house now, started with SMVE- and they are screwing up big time. The timeline would make sense if the rumors were true their brought it in house.

Could have been an outsourced playfield manufacturer let playfields sit and cure for a while before shipping to Stern. Now that they do it in-house, they might be trying to rush the build and ship process with new playfields. That would make sense too, seeing the playfield stamp date was July 7th and game build date was July 14th. I am willing to bet there was a bigger delta between playfield/game build dates with previous titles.

You would think so but the shear number of failures makes me think they are just clearing inventory and we won't see a fix until all the bad playfields are used up. Not sure I'm buying the cure date theory. Considering how long stern has been doing this all of a sudden they start rushing and don't wait for the cure time? Doesn't seem they would make that mistake.

Pinball Life had them last week. I snatched one up.

Email Terry and ask him when he expects them back in: [email protected]

They usually just show up on the home page.

I had Gotle Here in Poland. Have 2 od 3 ghosting in multipliers inserts. Shipping is more than 30 days. I don't think time is important in this case. Clearcoated had enough time to dry - or maybe open air is important?

Didn't come with the guide protector though

I would be in for a group buy or maybe someone with a 3d printer could make one?

I personally don't think that is the issue.. but that is just informed speculation. The point about it showing up AFTER play is very interesting though, certainly leading to the theory of inserts MOVING being the problem. Question is, are they loose, or movement due to changes in environmental conditions vs their initial setup, etc.

Without knowing what is going into the manufacturing processes... its a lot of speculation vs problem solving.

Played a few games a few minutes ago, and hit Mass Hysteria multiball for the 3rd time.

I was critical of the reverse flipper thing ever since I found out about it, and suggested having the option to disable them in the settings menu.

Dwight PLEASE give the option to disable reverse flippers in this multiball- it cripples the multiball and is simply not fun. It's a terrible multiball all around. I can't stress enough how stupid the flipper reversing thing is. One second its reversed, the next its regular. The balls drain so quick, the only "Mass Hysteria" happening is thinking how stupid this multiball is. Work your way to collecting 100 ghosts and literally get screwed quickly. I'd rather not play the mode at all and keep racking points the normal way and not risk an immediate ball-ending drain session.

Seriously, its shit. Great game all around and I love it, but what a mistake coding it like that. Dwight, if you don't want to add the option to disable reverse flippers- give the option to just disable the multiball altogether so it can be 'removed' from gameplay.

For a name like Mass Hysteria, the game should have roaming lit targets that have no rhyme or reason, just on the fly decision making shots- Slimer should randomly start flying around, Scoleri's randomly pop up, the Cat (and maybe even a Dog) hologram shows up in the echo Goggles, etc. Needs something better then gimmicky flipper reversing.

The reversed flippers is a signature mode of the game. The flippers revert back to normal and back to reverse as you hit the captive ball. It's not random.

love Mass Hysteria. CHANGE NOHING.

Yes this, just give us the option.

If playfield stamp is July 7 and then the game is built and sealed in a box a week later (July 14) that really isn't giving the playfield much time to cure in the open air. The normal thing to do is to unbox and start playing the game right away but maybe it would be wise to setup the game, remove the glass, and let sit in the open air for a few weeks before playing.-as hard as that might be! And a shaker motor would accelerate the ghosting on a playfield that isn't fully cured. Plus it probably doesn't help that it's July/Aug and super humid here in the midwest which probably adds to the curing time.

Nobody is going to do that. And it hasn't been an issue in the past.

In the past Stern most likely wasn't sealing 1 week old playfields in a box during a humid July. It would be interesting to have people compare their playfield dates with the game built dates on past Stern games. I know I'm going to check this when I get home.

Wife is going to think I'm nuts if I set my GBLE up and tell her no one can play it for a month.

I respect your opinion that you dont like it, but personally I Do!

I agree with you that a "delay" or "warning intro" would help, and even a ball save on the last ball of mass hysteria.

I am also one that loves user adjustments, and whether "off" is an option, or "no reverse", or "all reverse",
even some of your ideas and others.....User controls, however many we can get, I think helps make a game a winner,
and each persons game and challenge a more unique and fulfilling experience.

Perhaps others have ideas as well on Mass Hysteria!

As we see the code develop, and I hope as others will find, as you get a few hundred games in, the code opportunities are tremendous!

What we are playing now is a blast!

The shots are all over the playfield and can be in rapid fire timing!

I'm with you 1000% and I haven't even played it yet.

With Woz, its a minor infrequent mode, and sucks when you do get it.

To have the main MB mode do reverse flipper is a JOKE. Give us the option to turn it off.

My wife already thinks I'm nuts for buying $8k toys...

I want setting where Vigo jumps up and sings "Puttin' on the Ritz", but it's just not gonna happen.

Too many cooks in the kitchen.

Perhaps you should play it first before judging. Many people love it.

Perhaps. Do we know this as a fact?

Hey look, I'm not saying there are people who don't like the mode- and that's cool, I think a simple option to disable the reverse flippers would be fine as its a win/win for everyone. Default setting is on, but there are so many settings you can customize, why not disable the reverse flippers? It's just a game killer for me, and even my wife asked if we can turn it off. I really hope there is the option to disable for those who think it cripples the gameplay.

Its one thing to make suggestions... or even offer critiques of why you may not like something.

But when you go on trying to speak to the creators directly and say something made was SHIT.. or 'designed wrong'.. or calling things 'terrible'... 'stupid'... 'a mistake' -- and you're coming in as the armchair QB who has never even taken a snap... and trying to pass ultimate judgement... I don't think you are gaining any points of credibility with the creators.

Instead of criticizing the product, you've basically calling their output.. and them... shit.

These last 9 months have been surreal... I've never seen so much 'its **my** game!!' thinking in 20+ years in this hobby. Its scary to think where we are headed as a whole.

Players/buyers of games have no obligation to squelch criticism. If something strikes them as bad, that's their reaction. They can't force themselves to have fun with a feature that's not.

A wise game programmer once told me something along the lines of: If enough people tell you that a feature is bad, not fun, could be better, etc...then there's something to it, and you should listen. The customer doesn't play the game the way YOU do or the way YOU want them to...they play the game and have a visceral reaction...don't take it personally, use it as an opportunity to make the game better.

The games arrive in good shape. It sounds like the ghosting doesn't occur for the most part until the games are at home and played for a few days. This argues against environmental factors being a cause of the ghosting, as temperature and humidity are likely better controlled at home as opposed to a warehouse, cargo ship, or truck bed.

I'll bet the problem is due to a combination of factors, possibly shaker motors causing movement of the inserts on playfields that aren't fully cured. The reports of GB Pros without shakers on location having no ghosting issues is very interesting, as those are the machines getting the most plays and wear.

Hopefully Stern is reading this and going to QC and throwing the shaker motor on to see if they can replicate the issue.

I thought about adding the shaker motor to my Pro but I believe I will be holding off.

Obviously they made great playfields in the past like TSPP. So something changed from when they were making them correctly up until now. Maybe just another cost cutting attempt from Stern....if so, playfield isn't the place to do it.

I have a Premium on order and wont buy it if they don't figure this out. I haven't seen any ghosting on my WOZ, maybe they should consult with JJP....not going to happen ...LOL

Man, I hate to get your opinion on car reviews, movie reviews, food reviews, music reviews, etc. It's called having an opinion and with opinions, any one can speak whats on their mind. I am sorry you do not like my review and opinion of the multiball mode of Ghostbusters pinball.

The game is great otherwise, I am specifically mentioning that one multiball mode. Nothing to get unsettled about to be honest, as the game is amazing outside of this specific mode. It's basically like hearing an awesome catchy song - and right in the middle of it is a big fart sound.. the rest of it is good, but you have to think... why is it in there, and what was the producer thinking when he decided to put it in there like that.

my wife thinks they are 800.00

Good, because I didn't say to do that, instead I actually said that was reasonable... what I spoke up against was when someone who knows nothing about the discipline or project tries to tell the creator directly to 'their face' their work is 'shit', 'terrible', 'horrible' and done WRONG... and proceeds to then ask they do them a favor and add something to get what THEY WANT.

Tell the creator you didn't like the effort... tell them it didn't work for you... offer things you'd like to see... but don't suggest you know more than them, trash their work, their effort, a TEAM's effort, and talk to them like they are pathetic dogs.

It's not how you talk to a person face to face, and it sure as hell shouldn't be the way you talk here just because you're sitting at a keyboard instead of facing them directly.

Every creator should welcome critique - that doesn't mean the consumer/viewer should not respect the person as another human being.