I'm glad I waited to see the LE in action and will go with the pro, why it isn't mandatory for the LE/Pre version of Stern games to have RGB GI lighting and full spectrum inserts is really shit, I would rather have that over the ecto goggles but to each his own, the magna slings are cool and the Slimer is great, Met Pre/LE has the best GI lighting in a game I've ever seen how Stern can go backwards from that is amazing, when a pin changes to all red or green etc. it adds so much to the look and gameplay.

One small issue I've had happen a few times is a ball falling into the storage facilty scoop from the ramp above lips out and heads for the center drain, its as if the scoop is too shallow ( it is pretty shallow ). Maybe its because my machine is too steep? Its at 7.7 degrees ( I didn't set it that way on purpose but when measure thats how it is. How steep do others have theirs set?

My take on this. I just downgraded my order to a Pro from a Premium. Been looking forward to this for a long time but I have to agree with the cost/benefit take here.

Of Course this is HUGE. $1,700 can buy a lot of upgrades for a Pro

This was my biggest disappointment from the video. Sure it makes it easier but all the dead bounces really turned me off to these. I like the action of the Pro. I loved the "unique" stuff the magnaslings did, but not for the price difference. Had Stern kept the traditional slings in for normal mode, then used magnets to do the effects, it would have been a home run!

I liked it but overall was underwhelmed. Would have been cool had it been larger and a little more blended in somehow. Too bad it couldn't have projected on the main glass!

I like the up/down look more than the horizontal, but I like having more shots on the premium. Overall a wash for me.

This is probably the biggest draw for me in the Premium. I hate the way the right ramp pushes the ball halfway up on the Pro, but the Premium ramp is kinda boring.

Agreed.

Overall I liked the Premium but not $1,700 liked.

The GI lighting on MET is amazing. I have to say it would have been great on GB as well. Something tells me Dwight probably isn't as good at coding for that crazy light show and multi-GI that Lyman does, so they played it safe with basic GI. Believe me, it would have been cool to have the pin turn all green, purple, red at times depending on modes and things happening. The GI lighting effects in various modes on MET is insane

That's pretty steep. I usually set my games between 6.5 - 7.

Anybody else tempted to hire Brian Finch and figure how to win the bacon game?

To explain, Limitless is one of my favorite shows. Brian Finch is an aimless 30 year old protagonist, who takes NZT for limitless mental capacity. He takes one NZT pill daily before starting work for the FBI to solve important cases which are stuck. It wears off in a half day so if he is really needing to get something done, he will take a second pill and just skip sleep. One skill he possess while on drugs, is the ability to review reams of paper or electronic numbers and to decipher patterns or answer questions. Having seen him work his magic on tv, with a team of writers behind him, I am convinced he could crack the code and give us a system for choosing wisely in the bacon game. All I need is a contact for Brian Finch, if someone would be kind enough to provide his phone or email, I will authorize this important effort.

Yeah, something slightly above 6.5, max. 7.

The higher you set the angle the easier the game becomes to play and the more mechanical problems you will run into.

Not worried about Stern putting in a family mode setting. They want to sell as many machines as possible. But, as to the general off topic discussion.

Exactly! I am personally not offended by bad language but try to be considerate of others who might not feel the same way.

I dunno why, but it's kind of funny how many people write "Slimmer" instead of "Slimer"

Nah its all about Bill of Materials, doing that costs more and you would lose a feature like maybe magna slings etc.... I think this is why GB has way more extra gameplay features than STLE for example

It's actually driving me crazy and I'm about to code my own Chrome plugin that changes all instances of "Slimmer" on Pinside to "Slimer."

This may be more relevant to exported pro games, i'm not sure.

Anyone noticed issues with the slimer bash toy responsiveness with the v1.04 pro code? After updating, my slimer didn't respond at all well to flipper smacks! I've gone back to v0.9 where it works perfectly every time. At first i thought there was something up with the mechanism, though it worked fine in the test mode of v1.04

Yea. I just roll with it.
Kind of like all the people who "Loose their ball".

Regarding Pro vs Pre/LE debate:

Does the dip below the playfield ramp return and subway lock on the Pre/LE really add much value?

From what I could see, the dip under the playfield was hardly noticeable and haven't really heard much mentioned about how cool the effect was. I do like the metal ramp though.

A hidden lock doesn't seem much different than a virtual lock. Biggest difference is the hidden lock steals the ball from the inlane feed. Don't know if this is good, bad or indifferent.

Really liked the way Slimer floated on the Pro, it's a great fit for the ghost theme. Was looking forward to the Pre/LE having a similar movement and adding left to right.

Was also hoping you could backhand the right ramp on the Pre/LE to get the ball over to the left flipper, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Do people who have played the game feel it's too right flipper centric? Is there a good way to get the ball over to the left flipper?

Like that the magna slings aren't as active making the game a little easier. I guess you can reduce the sensitivity of the slings on the PRO to get a similar affect but you won't get the other tricks they do with the magnets.

Need to see the ecto goggles in person to see how cool the effect is. If similar to RFM I think it will be very nice.

The 3d sculpts on the premium are very nice.

I like the artwork on the Pro the best.

My initial impressions without having played either game are: the Pro is full featured and it seems like you may not be giving up much play wise. I'm a little disappointed in the Pre/LE but think it still offers enough to differentiate it from the Pro. Unlike say ST pro vs Pre which are so similar. Or GOT Pro vs Pre where there is a lot of differentiation but only because the Pro is so stripped down.

Yeah subway lock is still a mystery to me. At times in the video he would say "physical lock" and get excited, and then the ball would shoot out of the storage area which is what it does on the pro so I need to it to grasp it. And a metal ramp adds no value to me.
Post passing worked fine for me. Probably more right centric but I don't remember feeling super strongly aboot it.

The right ramp is hard to hit and I imagine it is on both...I don't see big value in it returning to the left flipper personally....other than you have an actuall 2 ramps instead of 1.5 in pro

Other things like 3d buildings...non of that type of thing interest me in the least....but that;s more mod centric which people love.

no, the slimer toy on the pro only needs a coil to pull it down in a teeter totter system. the slimer on the premium needs a swivel and motor system. double the cost. which still isn't much when buying in bulk but adds up over time. saving $2 on something adds up.

It's just a simply courtesy to have a family setting. Needs to be there no matter if you are offended by language or not. Just like all the other settings, it's nice to have the option.

why is this still being talked about. Stern has never had a game where they didn't put a family setting in the software. Even in the Sega days, there is still adult settings. Why would this game be the first? They wouldn't do that, because they wouldn't want to hear all the bitchin and whining about it. That alone inspires them to put in the little bit of code it takes to make it happen.

People downplaying the Slimer movement on the premium/LE are crazy. It makes a huge difference that he moves left and right. Having put in hours of time on the pro, it will be very nice to wait to shoot for Slimer until he's in a safer position than just straight up the middle. He's going to take more skill to deal with overall as it's not the same shot every time. It's a very different experience.

The improved right ramp is also a big deal. The left flipper feed is nice, but really it's more of a reliability deal. The shot is VERY tight, and sometimes you'll hit it on the pro but not get credit because it doesn't go quite high enough. I had that happen several times. That right ramp on the pro is really cool how you can get more points for a cleaner shot, but it's a huge bummer when you make it and get zero credit.

The scoop versus the saucer on the right is also a decent improvement. Scoops are just more reliable overall. Saucers are fine, but they tend to reject at a higher rate, even on a perfectly clean shot.

The magnaslings are simply a matter of preference. They're more unpredictable, and they're not as active as regular slings, but they do bring some neat effect and randomness. The dead hits are present on the pro slings as well, but not as often as we saw on the LE stream. It's a different shape of sling, and it causes the switches to be less prone to firing on hits that are very high or very low on the sling. But there's no objective "better" between pro and premium/LE here.

The effect on the subway ramp can only be appreciated in person. Just like White Water, that insanity falls ramp is dang cool in person, but totally pedestrian in a top down video. The same goes for the Ecto Goggles. And yes, I've talked to people who have seen these in person and they very much back this sentiment up.

The bottom line is this: Both versions of the game are great. Tons of fun, great action, and beautiful. However, there are objectively things on the premium/LE that will make it play better and provide a richer experience. Whether or not those improvements are worth it to you is up to your opinion and situation. For me, it's worth it to go LE, but that might not be the case for many others. I don't think the pro buyers are "settling" for less, but premium/LE aren't overpaying for features either.

Please don't, it's really annoying and doesn't have anything to do with pinball.

Good point and probably the most significant difference to game play. Still like the way he floats on the Pro though. Can you time the shot on the Pro so that the ball goes past him while still registering a hit?

Great points. Just like every title there will be some pro buyers that point out why they think the pro is better...Happens with every game.

I'm a MET Pro LED owner but wouldn't hesitate to say that the premium is betters and offers more. It does but thankfully for the price, what I wanted to spend, the pro version is fun and offers a lot as well.

GB premium has some of the best extra features in a pin, all are unique / interactive and just increase the overall fun factor of the game. When some people say "its just a ball lock, who cares" and "the Slimer toy on the premium doesn't add anything" it just leaves me scratching my head. Same goes for the Ecto Goggles and magnetic slings. Those 4 extras are awesome in my opinion and add a lot to the game.

Well because I really don't understand what makes the ball lock that much better. In MET, the hammer is ugly, comically big, and dumb, but the ball lock I can see and it's cool and interesting. On GB I don't quite know what I'm looking at/for so I don't really know. Unlike most people I reserve the right to understand it later and like it.
The ecto goggles do nothing for me...It's basically a little LED screen on the field...that didn't impress me on the hobbit or WWE. I don't know why the facts it's a peppers dong should blow my mind.
As I always say, what leaves me scratching my head the most is people that can't grasp the fact people have diff'rent opinions on games, toys, features.

On GB Prem/LE, the physical lock holds 3 balls. When you lock a ball, a new ball is released into the shooter lane for a chance at another skill shot. On the PRO, it is diverted into the Containment Saucer, then shot back to the flippers. Personally, I just love physical locks. When you lock a ball, it is actually kept somewhere where it wouldn't otherwise be kept, and then released when multiball starts. Virtual locks work, but saying that a physical ball lock isn't a meaningful addition doesn't hold weight with me.

Just my opinion.

I agree with MET. There are plenty of Stern games where you can get away with the pro, without losing much game experience. With MET, it's one of those games, where I prefer the pro over the premium because of that fawking hammer.

I take it you haven't played Game of Thrones LE / Premium? The light show is amazing.

Agree. I prefer the Metallica pro over the premium/LE. That hammer blocks vision and it's not 100% reliable. I also prefer GOT pro over the premium/LE.

Lots of folks that prefer the pro don't understand all you can do with the upper PF. When the game first came out, I preferred the pro, then put some time in with an LE. It totally changes the approach to the game for me.

I don't dislike the premium/LE. For GOT I just got hooked on that blinding speed of the pro. They're actually quite different, but both are winners.

Is there a green LED on above the LE/Premium Slimer like in the pro? I thought the effect looked great, like a ghostly luminescence.

Yup. Hey why did Williams put the gumball mech in TZ or the mini playfield in the game? Some people will say those two items do nothing, same with the games ball lock. Why do so many people like those features though? They are fun and fun is what pinball is all about. Mechanical features are a staple of pinball and I'll never say I want less of those in a game, especially at todays crazy NIB prices.

A physical ball lock, especially one that is intergrated with a crazy subway ramp + VUK, Ecto Goggles toy for 3D effects, magnetic slings and a Slimer mech that moves to different shots all sounds like fun to me As a TZ owner the variety of the feature offering in GB premium / LE reminds me of that game.

yes it lights up green like the pro.

Exactly, and fair enough. To me they aren't that important really. I'd rather have a physical I guess, but it isn't something I would spend moneis on. If it were a la carte` and they said $200 for a physical ball lock I'd pass.

to some it is. To me, the LE is hideous.

Always the dummest(sic) argument ever. If you ever see yourself typing it...just stop

Exactly correct...just don't be amazed when not everyone agrees with you. As a TZ owner today, I wouldn't "upgrade" for the clock

why would someone say the gumball machine does nothing? It keeps the powerball into a random rotation plus allows for 6 ball multiball. without the powerball aspect, the gumball machine would have been a useless toy, but it's partnered with the powerball and that's where it's value comes from.

I mean, especially playing with friends. How many of us, that play a brutal setting of TZ. have gumball machine lit, but avoid the shot because the powerball is the next in line and set it up so your buddy gets it instead....hahahahahah FU that's why!

Just trying to make a point. All of that could have been done "virtually" through text on the DMD with a ball hold. Would it be as fun though as the crazy cool mechanical mech that the gumball toy is? Heck no.

Filet is a woman's steak. Might as well be a vegan...

Ribeye covered in butter & blood is a man's steak

Make it a tomahawk Ribeye with side of bone marrow toast & you become one of the chosen

No truer shit will be said in this thread

You can also see the gumball machine and track where the power ball is in the rotation at all times (an important aspect of game strategy). So it provides useful information in a very cool mechanical way.

To me, a ball that is locked under the playfield and out of view might as well be virtual as it doesn't provide any information. You don't even get see to how it's locked so it's kind of a non-event. Granted, having another chance at a skill shot is nice, but not particularly cool or that significant to gameplay, IMO.

Better to save the money on that mech and put it into something else, like maybe giving Slimer vertical as well as horizontal movement or RGB general illumination..

Can the player SEE the locked balls on the premium? Where are they?

I do not think so. I think they are held in under the PF in a tro.

That's a mystery.

Just ask Jack Danger tonight when his stream is live.

Hopefully one of the 5 kenadas will

Question: When you hit the right orbit for a mode start, does it trap the ball somehow while the mode starts, or does the ball just keep moving?

Well that's just like them being in the regular "tro" , in the virtual.

What game and time is he streaming?

I believe the ball MUST go all the way through to start the mode. If it gets caught in the pops the mode does not start.

No. We won't agree on that one. You forgot the part where you actually see the ball drop from the steel ramp (not plastic) underneath the playfield. That alone is cool. Also, theres a ball lock intergrated with the ramp plus a VUK / scoop shot where balls are then ejected from. All of that just sounds like fun to me as the ramp (all metal), subway, lock, VUK and scoop just represents this big cool feature on the premium / LE.

How in the heck is just a regular plastic ramp better then all of that?

People downplaying the LE are crazy (except for maybe the underwhelming magna slings). Everything is better on the LE, including Slimer. Now, is it all really "worth" the extra cost? No not really, but when the LE/Prem buyers go to sell they will lose about as much as the pro buyer. Why not go Prem/LE? This isn't going to be a Mustang/WWE game where you take a bath on resale. This game will hold value at all levels.

I can give you my paypal if you want to fork over the extra dough for a physical tro!
Because monies....always because monies

It's not a ramp, it's a habitrail...it would still be a habitrail if the first ramp was plastic.
Plus some people prefer plastic ramps.