Zombie Yeti just posted this "outtake" art that didn't make the game:

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I can tell you that I spoke with several distributors and the price was different at each. I ended up going with Trent over at tilt amusements. I will not disclose the price here or via pm but I would say its worth giving him a call.

Why is that?

How does a distributor competing with another distributor over pricing hurt the customer?

GB doesn't have all color-changing inserts like ST.

It also does not have 3 color GI like MET.

TWD had 2 color GI which is used to great effect as well.

But games like Mustang (Trudeau's as well) is all white.

6 balls on Mustang is a blast.

exactly. That is a free market. Anything else is price fixing.

Resellers like Hemi have figured out "Value Add" and created Refinery editions, which is smart.

Everyone else is selling a commodity... a pinball in a box, and price is what drives commodities.

It's up to the resellers to differentiate themselves if they don't want to compete on price (great service, home visits, etc)... but if they are just taking a phone call and drop shipping a box... well, welcome to the race to the bottom.

6 balls on FullT is a great Multiball and really no novelty there. The game is a widebody and plenty of ability to keep things moving and make shots.

Levi just doesn't like 6 ball multi because everytime it starts for him, he drains two immediately.

It makes me wonder if my kids will ever know true nostalgia. Every memory they have will be in the form of a reboot or sequel.

Yup. I don't think we'll ever have a magical time like the 80s again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand.

Price fixing requires a conspiracy between sellers or buyers. The purpose is to coordinate pricing for mutual benefit of the traders. For example, manufacturers and retailers may conspire to sell at a common "retail" price; set a common minimum sales price, where sellers agree not to discount the sales price below the agreed-to minimum price; buy the product from a supplier at a specified maximum price; adhere to a price book or list price;

So people are saying these resellers are openly saying this?

Maybe they should read this part:

In the United States, price fixing can be prosecuted as a criminal federal offense under section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.[2]

Private individuals or organizations may file lawsuits for triple damages for antitrust violations, and depending on the law, recover attorneys fees and costs expended on prosecution of a case.[3][4][5]

if it's anything like LAH, or the TZ mini playfield, it will be a lot less violent than traditional slings. IMO that's a good thing.

Here's a brief account of the economic rationale for why retail price maintenance (also referred to as "vertical price fixing") was held to be legal in the Leegin case:

Imagine the following:
-Distributors of a widget are competing on price.
-Some distributors spend money on marketing. They attract customers, help people touch, enjoy, and decide to purchase the widget.
-Those customers leave and then buy the widget from the seller with the best price, who does not spend any money marketing the widget.

The incentives are thus for no distributor to invest in marketing the widget.

Retail price maintenance is legal, it happens fairly often in the marketplace these days, and the reason manufacturers choose it is it protects distributor marketing incentives.

Not saying Stern is doing it or should do it. Just that it is possible and sometimes makes sense.

Edit: I guess I could add the caveat that Leegin just held vertical price fixing was no longer a per se antitrust violation but is instead subject to "the rule of reason." I do not believe any retail price maintenance scheme has been struck down under the rule of reason in the intervening decade.

If you're correct, that is definitely a win fall for the drop shippers.

Called and got two different LE prices from distros yesterday, pulled the trigger and left a deposit on the cheaper one.

Won't disclose exact prices, but they were $400 apart. If there really is a new pricing agreement, I don't think many distros are listening.

If you got a "hard" price from a distro, it is absolutely in your best interest to call around. There are better prices out there.

I called 3 and received a different price from each.

Not surprised. If the distributor says all their prices have to be the same then they are hoping the buyer believes them and pulls the trigger instead of calling around. With all the newbies in the hobby I'm sure plenty buy in, especially on a fast selling limited edition game you don't want to miss out on. Stern might have set a minimum price but there is nothing stopping a distributor from asking for more. I have gotten some very good deals in the past on NIB and was asked by the distributor not to disclose the price so they didn't get in trouble, so imagine it still happens today.

Agreed, prices have increased anywhere from $200 to $600 today on the LE.

I think the general idea is that the distributors are racing to the bottom of the price floor, sometimes even losing a little bit of cash to obtain a new customer. The gist I got is that when this is happening, some distributors are dropping their customer service, or offering very little of it, because they sold the game for such a cheap price. You then have a customer with a problem on their NIB game, their distributor wont help them, or puts up as much road blocks as possible to slow the customer down, and then the customer is upset, blames it on Stern, tells all their friends about, etc. Stern sees this as a bad thing and is trying to hinder this in the future.

As Frolic mentioned, it shouldn't be all about price, there are other tangible and intangible items that help set these distributors apart.

Anyways, I am just relaying what was told to me, even though I have an LE ordered, I dont have any horse in this race over the pricing discussion from distributors, just sharing info.

I called marco and asked and they told me they were getting 2 ghostbuster pins from stern for TPF. Didn't know what version though.

I'm sure they will be Pros.
Thanks for the update. Good to know.

Who knows how it really works - they could all technically be selling for the same "price", but the end user cost could be different. Factor in tons of other variables like multiple pin purchases at once, shipping costs from A to B aren't the same as C to D, state taxes, etc. there's no way I can see the final cost to the customer being the same in every situation.

Besides, I never quite understood how price fixing was legal - if the gas stations all decided on one price they'd get in trouble, yet Apple has figured out how to price fix on all their products (at least they were for many years when the iPhone first came out) and now it's trying to happen in pinball???

I'm getting all sorts of prices from dealers I'm calling,
Never bought a nib before so I have no idea what distributor to go with,
Could any recommend one? I'm looking for an LE I found a few places with slots available with prices all over the place so its no way fixed pricing

I've been so dazzled by the playfield art package that I overlooked a cool detail: 2 inlanes to both flippers!! Nice!

I'm looking for a LE slot as well. My normal distributor, Cointaker, is out.

If I can't find a LE then I will be waiting for a while before deciding. I wish I loved the cabinet art package on the Premium because that would save a lot of money. If only the Pro cab was the premium then I would be set

"Price fixing" isn't legal. But, Sterns actions aren't price fixing.

Price fixing is when COMPETITORS collude to control pricing.... it's a "horizontal" issue. Its used to un-naturally restrict competition.
Stern setting minimum sales price is a "vertical" issue.

Saw that this morning myself

I was gonna buy a BGE

But they're stuck in the 80's as a company.

Price setting & distros... no thanks. They ended up with $0 of my money. I don't want to cold call a short list of distro's like a telemarketer with paper leads in 1987.

This ain't Glen Gary Glen Ross motherfucker. Put that coffee down!

Meanwhile Kamado Joe is killing the BGE market share. Killing it!

Stern is almost as inconvenient as BGE already. Add in fixed pricing & there it is

Damn, I want brisket & a new pinball machine for lunch now

There is an LE on eBay for $8,495 buy-it-now.

I've run multiple businesses in my life, and there is always someone willing to be cheaper than you. That is why it's important to not get into that price war.

If I were in the pinball business, I'd not take phone calls and quote prices and nothing else. You'll have no customer loyalty and you'll only sell for peanuts.

We've seen distributors on pinside complain about how they make a lot less than we think, which is probably correct. They should maybe expand their minds and education and learn how to expand their USP (Unique Selling Proposition). Build value and get out of the dog scrap business.

As mentioned, Hemi has this figured out. Kudos to him.

I'm bumping this cause I posted it too late last night and I really think it will happen:

Stern's most serious competitor is former iterations of itself (as a durable goods monopolist).

They shouldn't do this---not right now. Therefore doubt they will. Sure would be cool if they did!

Are those 3D assets not for the Ecto-goggles projection effect?

I imagine those 3d renders are for the neat hologram creatures for the ecto goggles.

I haven't been following this at all until now. I have to say, hats off to you Stern! What a great looking game. LE cabinet is stunning. I may have to pick up a premium down the road and this was one I was a theme I was originally just ho hum about.

How late would be too late if I wanted to order a Premium? This would be my first new machine purchase but I cannot order today. Will they be making these for as long as its selling, or if I don't order the premium in a week I may never be able to order one?

Thanks, but I really can't justify that much for an LE versus the premium. Just too much $$. Also at that price I have other choices. Still trying to wrap my head around spending $8.5k for a game regardless of the manufacturer

You can pretty much bet that they will be selling premiums for at least a year. You have plenty of time.

Price Fixing?....Lowest Price?.....I get to share my pet peeve here....Not a week goes by where I am not asked to bid/price/lower. The most insane ones are the emails that fight me for $.01 a bulb! Thats right, a Penny!

Part of the world today!

Tomatoe / tomato. JK. Thanks for the clarification. Guess I'd prefer to let the businesses themselves figure out how much profit they want to take on each sale and not be mandated, but I can understand STERNs perspective as well and wanting to maintain the value of their product.

I would say as long as there is demand, and Stern has the license, they will keep making them.

I've ran into "market" price maintenance twice in the past - once on a Nautique boat and once on a HotSprings Hot Tub. Both times, I was pretty livid during the experience and now I avoid any company that does it.

Basically, the company discourages price shopping by forcing dealers to only sell to someone in their market. Any dealers that sell to someone outside their market are punished and/or chewed out by other dealers. In the case of the hot tub, the local dealer said they wouldn't work on it if I bought it from another dealer (not to mention they weigh about 1000lbs so it's hard to get someone to install it unless they are local). In both cases, the dealers were all calling each other trying to find out who gave me fair prices versus the gouging MSRP price. I ended up with a good deal on both items, but there was a lot of collateral damage among the dealers (one boat dealer actually stopped carrying Nautiques because of it). I was made to feel like the bad guy simply by trying to obtain a fair price.

I don't think that will happen with pins as most of us perform our own maintenance and deal directly with Stern for any warranty issues....but if they ever did pull something like that, I would never buy another new pin from them.

Needed to play Ghostbusters.......

Dont_Cross_The_Streams__(resized).jpg

And yet ANOTHER Stern without a full color display. Get with it Gary. The public wants color. Pretty embarrassing that aftermarket companies make replacement displays for recent machines that should have come from the factory with color. Whats the reason ? First it was they were coming out with a new operating system. They did that and still no color. It cant be the price. My coffee maker has a color display. I don't get it. Other than that this looks like a pretty nice machine.

On average you have 2 to 3 years.

Just put my deposit down on the LE, because....

- Ghostbusters
- Slimer
- 250 units only for US/Canada
- Nerd squeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I agree, but look at the pre-order on this thing. If they can sell out LEs in a few hours ($4,000,000 in sales) and take a few hundred orders more of premiums and pros I don't see them breaking their necks to do much more.