I would think That each person renting these machines out will need general liability ins. to set these up in someone's home. You cover the machine's with insurance, But not insured for property/personal damage.

I actually really like this idea. Few suggestions... Have each "renter" list how far they are willing to travel. I know it is a brand new site and I just went on and I found a pinball that I would rent, but the renter is 3 hours away. Will the renter travel that far? Does it cost extra, and if so, how much? And that information could be listed under the profile of the renter on each listing.

Also, maybe list the location (city,state) of each "renter". I can see the google map, but it does not give complete details. Example, looking at the "Metallica Pro" listing, it just says "Portsmouth" as the location.

Without listening to a 20 min podcast, i assume Pinswap gets a small cut of this, and someone wanting to rent their machine gets a little more exposure than they would putting an ad on Facebook or Craigslist or whatever?

Trust is very important for a venture like this. The original poster is totally anonymous and got their Pinside account the day before announcing the service. Neither the first post nor the website reveals anything about who is behind this or where they are based. The website has no Terms and Conditions readily visible.

Who are you people? IRL names please. Why should we believe that you have the insurance policy? What other protections do you offer to game owners (e.g., privacy), and what can you tell us that will make the protections credible? What can you tell us to make us believe that the rental fees will be paid promptly? What can you tell us to make us believe that when an owner goes to retrieve the game at the end of the rental period, it will still be there?
.................David Marston
PS: notice that I signed with my IRL name, setting a good example.

They're a couple of very well-known podcasters and pinball enthusiasts. Ask around about Ian and Drew from the "Poorman's Pinball Podcast," and you'll find plenty of people to vouch for them. Their podcast isn't necessarily everyone's cup of tea, but I've never heard anyone say a bad word about Ian or Drew, or question their character.

So in short, if you listen to the podcast talking about this venture, or ask around about them, you'll discover that they're not anonymous at all. They're quite well-know. Which is good, as it lends the venture a bit more legitimacy.

Your Q/A doesn't answer the Q's very well...

"How are you gonna insure the $10k?
Pinswap: If you rent through Pinswap the owners are insured. Any damage to the home or any injury should be covered through the renters home owners insurance policy."

If you're relying on other folk's insurance, how can you quote a covered amount? The word "should" here is worrisome. It sounds like folks should contact their insurance company and specifically ask if their equipment is covered in this scenario. Renting out a game is a commercial act, even if its to a home owner.

"Who is to judge the damage if an issue occurs?
Pinswap: Get us involved ASAP and take plenty of pictures.

Do you *really* want to get involved with mediating damage disputes?

"What happens when a game breaks and is inoperable during rental?
Pinswap: Contact the owner ASAP. Record the day and let us know. We will discus together. "

So is a flaky switch grounds for the owner to roll a truck? How many lamps out before it's "broken?" This stuff matters and needs to be spelled out ahead of time. If an owner gets a call at 8pm Sat night that the mode start lamp is out, is that "broken?"

"You are responsible in taking good care of the machines. No excessive abuse or your account with us will be instantly terminated."

So non-excessive abuse is OK? Define excessive... are bangbacks and deathsaves allowed under the agreement?

I'd be interested to hear from anyone that has ever rented a machine to see how it went, both as a renter or rentee, whether this site or Craigslist or whatever.

If I'm paying $300 - $500 a month to rent a toy, I would expect it to work perfectly the entire time.

If I'm renting a game to someone, I'd expect it back exactly as it was when I dropped it off.

I'm picturing Saturday night parties with beer spills, cigarettes, little kids with crayons, death saves...I mean, it's a rental. Is that scratch REALLY a big deal?

"Yeah, set that Twilight Zone up in the basement, the turn in the stairs is a little tight, let me know when you're done, my friends just got here with the beer. Is that heavy?"

Personally I wouldn't get a good night's sleep the entire time.

You're talking worst-case scenarios here. I mean, if the renter and the owner are both normal human beings, then none of that stuff should really be an issue. The owner can specify no flights of stairs or basements, so that you don't have to worry about bumps and issues that way. If any damage is caused by the renter, then obviously they'd have to pay for it. Such as damage to the cabinet, or spilled beer, or whatever.

Plus, as the owner, you can decide who you want to rent to, and who you don't. You can tell a lot about a person by having a conversation with them. And the owner is going to the renter's house and setting up the game, so if the house is a scary, messy wreck, then you can cancel the deal. And I mean, death saves aren't something I commonly see people do. And you can just tell the renter, no crazy stuff with the game, okay? And if they're a normal, decent human being, they'll respect that.

I mean most of your guys' concerns seem out there to me. Do you really think the renter is going to call up the owner on a weekend and demand they drive over to replace a bulb immediately? At 8'oclock at night! That's crazy talk. No reasonable person would do that, and if they did, good luck ever renting a game again. There's obviously some give and take, and if a bulb goes out, or some minor issues come up, I'm sure the renter and owner can work it out.

Seems like most of the people in this thread who are majorly concerned about the prospect of rentals, aren't really the type of person to rent a game, or rent out their games. Not everyone has the personality or mindset for it. If you're someone who hems and haws and bites their nails over someone else playing your games, then obviously you aren't a good candidate for a rental operation. If you're someone who expects a 25-year-old game to work perfectly without the slightest issue the entire time you're renting it, then you're also not the right person for this kind of operation. Plus, new Sterns tend to be very reliable anyway, so I mean maybe you don't rent out your older, more questionably sturdy games? Just a thought, and no offense to anyone, but that's just how I see things.

Two very trusted and well-known individuals in the pinball media. I've dealt with them on numerous occasions. Great individuals!

What you're describing is already happening between friends/acquaintences all over the country. However, it sounds like Pinswap wants to be another Uber.. connecting *strangers* together so they can make a transaction. Sure, most rentals might go fine, but are they prepared to deal with the fallout when one inevitably goes bad? Are they prepared to be sued when someone doesn't care for their decision regarding damage to a game?

What if its a row of lamps, some of which are sorta important? What if the flipper is getting tired and you need a perfect shot to make the ramp after an hour of play? What if a switch worked perfectly fine right up until the critical shot, then failed and the pissed-off renter decides not to pay the fee at all due to game being broken? What if there was something wrong that the owner wasn't aware of and renter discovers 20 games in?

If pinswap expects the owner and renter to work all this stuff out between themselves, what exactly are we paying them 12% for?

Reasonable people... have you seen the thread rarehero just started over someone stalking him with pinside thumbs down?

Good luck to Pinswap, they're going to need it.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying these guys are untrustworthy. It sounds like they're awesome. Just afraid they're biting off a bigger problem then they realize.

Let me know how THAT conversation ends

" If you're someone who expects a 25-year-old game to work perfectly without the slightest issue the entire time you're renting it, then you're also not the right person for this kind of operation"

Those are called customers - they expect that.

" Plus, new Sterns tend to be very reliable anyway, so I mean maybe you don't rent out your older, more questionably sturdy games?"

That's my point, I'm gonna put my 7k game in some strangers house for a month and hope for the best? Or that some website is gonna back me up?

Just playing devils advocate - I'd say most people renting a game have never done it and it's not cheap, it's a car payment. Customers will expect the game to work, period, regardless of age. I wouldn't have the stomach to plop a new game in someone's house for a month. That's why I'd like someone that's done this to chime in.

Hi drew,

I thought that you guys did a great job in the episode explaining the new business. I wish you both success- this sounds like a really positive and well thought out venture.

Stu

Maybe random Joe Shmoe expects that, but pinheads wouldn't. Pinheads understand that these things break, and need tweaking, and maintenance.

I really don't think random non-enthusiasts will be using pinswap, I think pinheads will use it. I know a lot of pinheads rent because they want to try out lots of games, but don't necessarily want to commit to buying them. And let's say you only pay $250 to rent a Dungeons and Dragons, since it's a cheaper, older game. People lose more than that on pin deals all the time.

And once again, you will at some point actually speak with the prospective renter. If they seem like they have no idea what pinball is, how the machine works on a basic level, or if it seems like they have unrealistic expectations, then guess what? You don't rent to them. It's easy, don't make it harder than it actually is.

I know several people that have rented games. Jordan and Becca from Fliptronic rented lots of games over the course of 2020. Often the person they rented from would pick up a pin from one customer's house, and bring it directly over to theirs. Sometimes they rented new games, and sometimes older games. I know some of the pins had minor issues, but Jordan and Becca are pinheads and know to expect that from older games.

I've never rented out a game, but I've sold plenty. And all you can do is be as honest as possible with your buyer, and have your pin in as good as shape as possible when the buyer comes to pickup. Once it's out of your house, it's out of your hands. Whatever happens, happens. People buying, or renting, pins need to understand that pins break. Issues arise that you no one was expecting, ect., ect. It's all a part of the pinball hobby. Anyone new to pinball that doesn't know that, soon will whether they want to or not.

I mean, surely with a collection as large as yours, you must have bought and sold plenty of games. If you go over to purchase a pin, and it's in way worse shape than you expected. Then you just tell the seller, "Sorry, I don't think I can buy this game, it's got too many issues, ect., ect." You don't still buy the pin just to avoid an uncomfortable conversation. Same goes for a rental deal. If you don't feel comfortable putting your game in their home, then you just TELL THEM. Same deal. It's not hard. If the prospective renter doesn't like it, well tough titties. We're all grown ups here, aren't we?

Then the owner goes over to fix their game. If it broke at the renter's house, then it would've broken at the owner's house eventually too. If the owner can't fix the game, then either he offers the renter a substitute game, or he refunds their money. Pretty simple stuff.

Use of the pinswap storefront / website. Exposure to more potential customers. Help moderating issues in extreme cases. And extra insurance coverage in a worst-case scenario. Plus, it seems like the pinswap website will have some sort of review / rental history system, so that owners can vet renters. Seems worthy of some sort of percentage. Plus, Ian and Drew have a reputation to uphold. So I'm sure they'll be invested in seeing this operation become a success. Never underestimate the value of a committed and enthusiastic business partner.

As a guy who deals with renters all the time in my business, youre totally clueless as to how the machines will be treated.
As a guy who used to rent pinball and video games for overnight/weekend parties a few years ago, the games will get scratched/abused/drink spilled on them and cigarette burns.
The responsible pin owners who already trade/loan or rent machines dont need help hooking up with like minded individuals, thats what pinside is for.

No, I don't think I am clueless. But sure, you can go on thinking that if you want to. I realize that the general public will happily abuse and mistreat cars or equipment that they're renting temporarily. But the general public isn't going to be using pinswap. Also, if a rental car comes back damaged, dented, and scratched, then you better believe that the renter is paying for it.

Owners can specify non-smoking renters. So no cigarette burns. If you go over to their house and it smells like smoke, then you don't rent to them. If they damage the game, then they pay for it. So obviously you don't rent out your HEP Addams Family, or TOM. But maybe you do rent out your Star Trek Pro or your Game of Thrones. So that if the games get damaged in some way, it's not a huge deal.

Well, if you're correct, then pinswap will fail. If you're wrong, then it will succeed. I guess time will tell. I can see the value in the service, but if you don't, then that's cool.

No, when you rent a car the insurance pays for this, not the renter.
How do you fix a scratch in the cabinet? Complete re-decal? Its not like touch up painting a rental car.

Well, now we're talking semantics. Your car insurance pays the rental agency for the cost of the damages. Or you pay the rental agency for the extra insurance ahead of time, and their insurance pays for it. Either way, you're still paying for it technically.

And yeah, scratches in a cabinet can be ass-pain to fix. So in that case, I'd probably charge a price equal to the decrease in the value of the game. So maybe a couple hundred, depending on the game and the damage. So it seems pretty clear that you don't rent out games that you'd be sad if they got scratches in the cabinet decal.

And also, I guess it's just me, but I've owned lots of games and never once have I damaged or scratched any cabinets or heads. Even with kids and people over. So maybe I'm just incredibly lucky? Or maybe that kind of thing doesn't happen that often really? Most pin damage seems to come from moving them through doorways or up and down narrow stairs anyway, which the owner is doing themselves.

Doesn't sound like renting pinball machines is for you.

I'd be interested in renting and would jump on a number of older and/or newer pins if they become available to the Southern Maryland area.

I also realize living in a fairly rural area that isn't likely for a while. I'll be checking the map for updates and wish you all success.

Gonna list my Twilight Zone and Whirlwind once I get them both shopped and ready to go. Can't wait!

Wouldn't mind picking up a few previously routed games to rent. We will see how these first two go.

Whatever happened with this? The website no longer exists and says it was closed down.

Didn’t see an announcement or anything