Quoted from eabundy:

Got my Firepower Hardtop Installed.

Quoted from jdoz2:

Well I would do one of these again that’s for sure!

Quoted from dyopp21:

My original vote on the poll was for Supersonic because I have one of those to resto, but I bought a Grand Lizard yesterday with a blown out playfield, so I'd like to "+1" for that machine as well!

Quoted from dyopp21:

My supersonic was in terrible shape (not just missing artwork, but deep gouges as well). I filled it all in and sanded it smooth, then placed one of those vinyl overlays you see on eBay. Of course it bubbled up and warped in short order like the piece of sh!t that it is. I had to then create a custom Lexan protector for the overlay but I’m still not happy with the entire mess. In the case of this particular title the artwork is so simple I’ve considered pulling the protector and the overlay, sanding it smooth again and setting it up on an easel in front of the TV. Then I’ll fire up an old episode of Bob Ross and try to paint the same scene he is painting directly on the playfield (while making it fit the weird dimensions of course). Or maybe I’ll just wait.

Quoted from JoeF:

So, I picked up a F-14 Tomcat last weekend
F-14, 14,502 produced!

Quoted from Jmckune:

Here it is in all of its glory!
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Quoted from KnockerPTSD:

Not gonna lie. I didnt really pay project pricing. Still got a decent price but I'll be putting more into it than one should. Being stuck at home with nothing to do is killing me though. Now I have something to work on and stay sane. The lower playfield isnt even that bad. Mostly just the right manga save. The upper is another story. Yuck.

Quoted from Mathazar:

I'll finish that this afternoon and then remove the adhesive residue...pretty sure I've got some Goo Gone in the garage.

Quoted from Watkinsd13:

How do you cut a perfect circle out of this?

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

because someone who was truly restoring would want a NOS or *MAYBE* repro playfield, or a very very clean original. Again just my opinion and that's worth about a half of a penny.

Quoted from dyopp21:

I did a time lapse of all the work I did to my SS, but the crappy vinyl sticker I put down is completely jacked (my fault most likely because I sprayed it with poly). So I can’t wait to be able to “get it right!”

Quoted from vid1900:

***

Quoted from radium:

It’s basically a grid with a skin on both sides. If you build it right it’s nice and flat and sturdy.

Quoted from vid1900:

I've got a 49x49" torsion box table that has been machined dead flat by cnc
All plywood seems to have plenty of warpage when laid upon it

Quoted from vid1900:

That would be funny.
I've done videos before, but it quadruples the time it takes to do a repair, even without editing (let alone no one could understand my accent...).

Quoted from jcar302:

Does this machine really need a hard top?
That playfield doesn't look bad.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

Why I wonder? So many F-14s need help.

Quoted from ringonu:

On the F14 my guess based on owning one would be the issue with numerous inserts raising. If you put on a hardtop and then an insert raises people would be angry and blame hardtop. Only a guess, otherwise I have no clue.

Quoted from 80spit:

Just finished doing a hardtop on this Pharoah

Quoted from Toine79:

I wonder why Outside Edge is organizing a poll for the next hardtop?

Quoted from Ceckitti:

Finally was able to have the time to make it out to the shop and pick up my playfield and fresh hot off the press Hardtop for my SBM!! Im telling you...... the pictures dont do this thing ANY justice! It is freaking beautiful in person. It killing me to try to fit some time in my schedule to start getting this installed.
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Quoted from radium:

Ordered my F-14 hardtop. I bought my F-14 in 2013 and it has been waiting for this day, so thanks hardtop guys. I'm not looking forward to regluing all those arrow inserts though!
Now please get to work on Space Station.

Quoted from ita47:

On the F-14 hard top are the arrow inserts clear on the hard top or are they tinted red and blue? My inserts are badly faded.

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Both of these are kinda sad tbh. My friend had a pretty rough one he had bought for I think $200 but it was missing all boards, glass, and transformer/rectifier (ouch). He bought a brand new Alltek board set and BGResto glass and then located a transformer and intact rectifier. Then we found a $350 mostly broken down basketcase in Oklahoma that was otherwise complete. We were just going to do one and call it good but I figured we're not THAT far off on two, might as well do both. Both playfields worked just fine in the first cab I set up with his new boards which was a shock... time to knock these both out![quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from eabundy:

I use at least at least 2 for hard tops. At least 4 for a regular playfield restore.

Quoted from BigAl56:

Sorry, but there is no reason to apply multiple layers of ClearCoat or to sand everything off.

Quoted from eabundy:

Between 4 and 6. First coat I do is very light. Then I gradually go heavier.

Quoted from radium:

Did you read the info on their site? I’d follow that or email them instead of random advice here.
[quoted image]
If you love the machine and want to do a great job, just follow the vid1900 guide where he hardtops a Comet (which I’m too lazy to look up for you).

Quoted from vid1900:

Wet sanding is when you are using very fine sandpaper and the soapy water keeps the dust from clogging the sandpaper (often 800 grit or finer)
You would not be using any sandpaper that fine when prepping bare maple
Even when I work on something like a fine flame maple guitar neck, I would only sand to 400 grit before shooting the clearcoat. No wet sanding on 400g
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Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Just make sure you let them outgas COMPLETELY before sticking the hardtop down. Still makes me paranoid.

Quoted from eabundy:

Correct, I do a couple light coats of clear if I'm doing a hard top. I also want to make sure I have the shooter lane restored. I sand most of the stains out of it, and then make sure the wood grain is sealed.

Quoted from vid1900:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1730160

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

My opinion on this. I have done several Hardtops, and all of them had some unusual haze or very fine scratches on a few of the clear insert areas like what is being described here. I don't know where it comes from, but my guess it might be caused from the manufacturing process of the HT. I don't know if they screen-print these, or print them on a printer. But if its screen-printed, I can see the squeegee making these blemishes during the pull process. Again, this is simply my guess, I really don't know how they make these.
With the above said, I still stuck my Hardtops and never saw any problem with the light shining through. IMO, the blemish is completely non-visible with the lamps off or on, and I don't consider it a problem at all. Perhaps you blemishes are worse than mine. Just my two cents.

Quoted from jcar302:

What are you guys considering a bad or good install?
Is it really that much more than sanding and clear coating the inserts?

Quoted from pinballizfun:

LOL, hardtop and high end restro should never be compared.

Quoted from mrm_4:

And yet stubborn ways will keep us painting over cheap wood and clearing thinner coats and bitching about dimples and pooling and wear because “that’s the way we’ve always done it!”

Quoted from pinballizfun:

The original post I replied to said he wouldn't be surprised if plastic fields became the norm. That was a failed idea already for the reasons above, plus many think they do not play right. A hardtop is an acceptable last resort of a trashed field. The issue is too many people put one on, then post what the game looked like originally and it had minimal wear. That is just a waste.

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I totally agree on the point that hardtops get installed when they shouldn't. I've seen a few people that installed a hardtop on a playfield that actually looked pretty good as it was or could easily be touched up and restored. That is a waste. But for playfields like mine it is needed and I really doubt there is any difference in play for a properly installed hardtop or cleared original playfield. Once waxed they should play the same.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

Clears were thin. Then people got stupid and started demanding super shiny thick clear so manufactures gave them what they wanted. But paints and clears have actual spec'd thicknesses they are to be applied to. Make them too thick they fail.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

Hmm they tried it and stopped, that would be a failure. if it was better and cheaper it would have been used more, not stopped, its a pretty darn simple dichotomy.

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If it is just cupped inserts then it seems better and cheaper to just get a playfield protector. Accomplishes the same thing if you mainly just have cupped inserts. You get a smooth play surface but at least down the road if someone does want to restore the playfield they can and that option is still open.
It totally is up to the owner of a game and they can do whatever they want. But if it is a pretty nice playfield then sanding off original artwork that many people would be happy with as is then it is a waste. Save the hardtop for games that really need it. I like hardtops. The ones I've played were well done and looked great. I bought one myself and will be installing one. Just have a different threshold than you on when I think a Hardtop is justified or needed.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

diamond plate was thin and worked well. when posts were driven thought it, the clear would simply break. It was thin, it didn't peel up, it didn't spiderweb. Look at old WPC games you'll see the art and topcoat fully separated in a ring where the posts pressed into the wood. People started "restoring" games by adding stupidly thick clear in order to get super shiny, wet look fields. Doing this isn't an issue when its an individual, not many people will play that one machine, or handful of machines, so they don't get much wear. Stern started to run stupid thick clear in response to this demand, you can find accounts of it all over this site. Then you were looking at a high number of machines in high traffic locations with lots of eyes on them. Flaws turn up and get seen. This was done in direct response to people looking for wet look thick clear. Did stern know it would fail, doubtful. It's not really relevant though since the failure mode is the art to the substrate not the clear to the art. Thick clear acts like a rubbery plastic film you press it, it won't break easily-it will stretch. when well bound to the art the weakest link breaks, which was and still is the art to substrate bond. This is exactly why taking art away from the posts "fixed" the issue. You removed the weak point. Guess what though, get hold of a field to sacrifice and drive home posts into the art covered areas, you'll get the same movement with the art attached to the clear. You won't see it on the posts where the art was removed. They seems to have thinned the clear back worn a bit which is also making the clear less likely to stretch rather than crack. None of this new unknown in painting. Film thickness is important. No Matter how well you prep, if the application is done too thick for the medium it will fall. You think stern and JJP are pumping out games so fast that the clear can't sure if applied by the manufactures guidelines? Williams put out more in a day than those companies do in a week. There was no "waiting" to let things cure, and with the exception of insert ghosting on some titles no issues wit the clear separating. Holding parts in inventory is expensive. it takes space and is taxed considerably. That ghosting was the same issues as now, poor bonding to the substrate. in that case to plastic which is notoriously difficult to paint with normal paints.Ghosting generally did not occur on printed inserts as the screening inks did bond to plastic well and the clear bonded to those inks well.

Curing has zero to do with plastic playfields, which were a failure.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

Curing has zero to do with plastic playfields, which were a failure.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

You stated you wouldn't be surprised if plastic fields became the norm. It was already tried, it failed. Both as a polybarb back-printed top slab over a substrate, very similar to a hardtop, but one that actually fits right since it was cut with the PF, to a full plastic field. Both were discontinued. Both were failures from the manufacturing aspect. It's not disputable that they stopped making them that way.

Quoted from gdonovan:

Not even comparable "tech" I'm surprised someone made the reach in bringing it up.
Bottom line- If it was better and cheaper Gary Stern would have been all over it like a rash by now.

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Question about inserts. I had an extra lower playfield for Elketra that I am going to do the hardtop installation on. Paint is bad and most inserts are missing. I bought new arrow inserts but they seem to be just a hair too big. Anyone run into this before? Who has inserts that fit the early Bally games?

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I have not but I didn’t notice any glue. Will take a closer look.

Quoted from RCW:

My only concern about balancing on sawhorses or paint pots, apart from the possibility of knocking it over, is the dust that can get into everything beneath the playfield if it's not protected or surrounded by anything while sanding, which is why I thought a box might be a good idea.

Quoted from newovad:

Hope this one is far enough gone for the purists. I’ve got Mylar clean up to do by the ramp exit of all places.
[quoted image]

Quoted from radium:

It's a beauty, just wax and play!

Quoted from gdonovan:

All the hardtopped games I have played at shows have been a poor experience, I'm willing to buy a hardtop to see if my experience is the norm or abnormal.

Quoted from gdonovan:

It changes it in my experience.

Quoted from kciaccio:

Rubbing alcohol.

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Clearing playfields and whether or not it's necessary is debatable. I didn't clear my high speed.

Quoted from hockeymutt:

I said this 3 years ago, no need to clear the inserts just polish them with a 2 (medium and fine) step rubbing compound. I would’ve completed the hardtop in a few hours after work if it wasn’t for being a parent.
Some of the things people bitch about is insane. “black isn’t black enough on my inserts”. People wonder why there’s limited affordable reproduction vendors in this hobby? Shit happens and mistakes are made in every faucet of life. Pick your battles people, like a good healthy marriage. An affordable replacement for a playfield that can be knocked out in a few hours? But hey let’s bitch about minuscule, knit picking items to just get the validation to complain because you stared at a hard top for 6 hours trying to find something wrong.

Quoted from Sorokyl:

Hey guys what kind of clear spray is acceptable for shooter lane / exposed wood areas like ball holes..and can the same thing be used to clear the inserts?
I have a bunch of random gloss clear rattle cans but didn't know if I need something special to survive the ball wear.