(Topic ID: 218168)

Official "HARDTOPS" thread

By Skypilot

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“If we produce a Hardtop for this game would yo purchase it?”

  • High Speed 174 votes
    13%
  • Firepower 128 votes
    10%
  • Silverball Mania 62 votes
    5%
  • Time Warp 30 votes
    2%
  • Mata Hari 55 votes
    4%
  • Blackout 94 votes
    7%
  • Tri-Zone 26 votes
    2%
  • Swords of Fury 74 votes
    6%
  • Space Station 79 votes
    6%
  • Fathom 70 votes
    5%
  • Pinbot 134 votes
    10%
  • Eight Ball Deluxe 124 votes
    9%
  • Strikes and Spares 56 votes
    4%
  • Kiss (Bally) 71 votes
    5%
  • Supersonic 51 votes
    4%
  • Grand Lizard 80 votes
    6%

(Multiple choice - 1308 votes by 788 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #274 Upcoming Game List Posted by Outsidedge (5 years ago)

Post #870 Hardtop Hiatus Clarification Posted by Outsidedge (4 years ago)

Post #1086 New Website - 11/29/2019 Posted by Outsidedge (4 years ago)

Post #1142 Xenon Hardtop Available Posted by Outsidedge (4 years ago)

Post #1246 Pin*bot Hardtop Available Posted by Outsidedge (4 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#1047 4 years ago

I need an EK! Hope its available soon!

4 weeks later
#1101 4 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

Looks like my Black Knight! I need to get my hardtop installed an get this project done!
[quoted image]

I think this is the best way to prep, just to be sure there is no wood rising from screw holes or any other anomalies that could cause a problem.

6 months later
12
#1574 3 years ago

I successfully installed my Wizard Hardtop and have to say it looks and plays awesome. I've also read most all 32 pages of this thread and its interesting to read some of the results.

Couple of observations.....
Fist off, preparation is key. Dust or crap under your inserts are lack thereof. In my instance my inserts were not salvageable so they were removed and replaced with new. They are stunning and theres no gap, the hardtop is completely resting on top of them. If I could salvage the inserts, I would have sealed the insert from underneath so there is no air gap. You'd be surprised how much air is getting in-between that space where old glue is shrunk, gone, or the insert has shrink just a tad. I would recommend gluing the entire insert in place if they can't be removed/replaced or re-seated flush. This is also a place to trap heat. Not good for the insert or the hardtop.

If you didn't wait a few days after sanding, cleaning, gluing, wiping with Naptha, cleaning the area, clearing the inserts, etc. I am assuming this is where some ghosting could be coming from. Off-gassing is a b*tch.

I purchased a small trim router from HF(I think it was $28) and a trim bit($8) from Lowes. It was perfect in routing off any excess Hardtop. I used it in every light/mech/etc. hole and even on the outside edge of the PF. I had a small lip on one side and took that off too. Clean look, and everything was 'fitted' at that point.

I addressed the kickout hole at the top and the shooter lane by standard practice of repair. They were a little chewed up. I cleared those areas and painted them 'wood' color. I then cleared them again. Seeing old dirty wood under the Hardtop was not an option, the contrast between the bright brilliant colors and the old wood was just plain bad. It looked much better with 'faux' wood color than the beat up stuff. If the wood was in better condition I wouldn't have done this step.

I also painted black around every insert(for replacements only) as well as brown around any rollover lane or holes that accepted wire guides. These too were cleared after painted. This way the holes looked fairly uniform if the Hardtop was a little misaligned and the eye is not distracted by odd variants of colors.

I would also not recommend cranking down your screws and bolts. Snug is good. Remember some posts left negative indents on the PF so all your doing is compromising that slight gap. It would put stress on the Hardtop unnecessarily.

Added a pic just for yuks. Yes I know the top apron is bad but finding that color paint may be impossible as well as replacement bottom apron decals since Pinball Rescue no longer makes them

Next up is a coveted Evel Knievel and I hope this one comes out just as good! Thats for making these, what an amazing product!

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#1577 3 years ago
Quoted from hd60609:

I'm stuck on finding the right color or colors for fake wood. Would you mind sharing which color(s) you used and which product? Much appreciated. Thanks.

Its a total pain in the balls. Its all about mixing and mixing and just tweaking till you find the right shade. I would encourage getting a color wheel at a hobby or art shop, they are maybe 2-3 bucks. They will help you mix basic colors, then you can slowly add other colors or mixes of colors to get the right shade and tone. I made a nice beige but I did not get into doing 'grain' like some have. Honestly didn't seem worth the risk of making something stand out if it came out bad. I used acrylic paints, most normal brands you find at the hobby store. I also painted it with an air brush with helps it look flat to the surface. And always clear coat over the paint, rattle can is fine.

#1584 3 years ago

I have detailed tear down pics of about 30 different games. Ive always wanted to start a website for them. Its probably over 3000 pics total. If I had a Pharaoh Id help you out.

1 month later
#1643 3 years ago

Ive done two HT's and not had this issue. You may have a early print on a specific run of that title.

1 week later
#1681 3 years ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

I want to talk more about this need to now clear-coat the PF prior to install. Hopefully OE will chime in.
There are two ways to prep the PF before install:
1. Lightly sand the PF to rough it up leaving most of the original painted surface still intact. This would be the quicker way.
2. Completely sanding the PF to bare wood so ALL of the original painted surface is COMPLETELY gone. This takes much longer than the above.
I completely sanded (finished at 400 grit) the PF down to bare wood on my BK, and cleaned the surface with 3m automotive surface prep solvent to ensure the cleanest possible, and I feel that the HT is stuck very very well and I believe it will go the distance.
So I am wondering how the folks who had failures prepared the PF prior to HT application. Did they light sand or completely sand? Did they clean the surface with a solvent or other cleaner to remove all contaminates? I am just wondering if the clear-coat is really necessary if the PF surface is prepared in the most optimum way.

Ive installed two of these are if you do not do the prep work you raise the risk of something going wrong. Not that it is a sure thing, but missing steps like cleaning the surface of all chemicals and oils, waxes, etc. will increase the chance of something going awry. The adhesion on these are EXTREMELY strong! If the surface is cleaned/sanded well and even a step further, clear coated, you have a 100% chance of success. And BTW, rattle can Clearcoat is just fine, its just there to seal the surface, not look good.

1 week later
#1694 3 years ago

Almost done with my EK, Ill post pics by next week.

1 week later
#1700 3 years ago

Yup, its probably the protective film. Pull some away to verify.

#1704 3 years ago
Quoted from Apinjunkie:

Okay then, that being said I would do any adjusting you needed to do after the hardtop is in place. Most importantly align with your inserts if you still feel the need that you need to trim the scoop holes you can use a Dremel bit once it's in place.

ABSOLUTELY only align with the inserts! Once the HT is in place go to harbor freight with a coupon and get the trim router, its about $20-$30. Then get a trim router bit, used for laminate or something similar, its pretty cheap, about $10 bucks. Ive used this set up twice and its flawless. Plus you can do all the other holes too for kicks, lights, etc and don't forget the outter edge too, you can make it completely free and clear of any obstruction.

https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-24-Amp-Trim-Router-62659.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiMTg0ODg3MzQiLCJza3UiOiI2MjY1OSIsImlzIjoiMTkuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjoiMTE5MzcifQ%3D%3D%0D%0A&cid=paid_google%7C%7C%7C62659&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5_W7v42N7AIVBopaBR00MgieEAQYAiABEgLMBPD_BwE

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DIABLO-3-8-in-x-1-4-in-Carbide-Flush-Trimmer-Router-Bit-DR64100/100660703?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D25T-G-D25T-25_7_POWER_TOOL_ACCESSORIES-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-PowerToolAccessories_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D25T-G-D25T-25_7_POWER_TOOL_ACCESSORIES-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-PowerToolAccessories_LIA-71700000043746545-58700004596952413-92700049573927185&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIicak3I2N7AIV0YpaBR2jOQX4EAQYBCABEgJqofD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

#1715 3 years ago
Quoted from xamindar:

Isn't a full router way overkill for this job? I'd be afraid of taking out more wood from the hole.
What's wrong with using something smaller and more precise like a dremel?

This is a trim router, it fits in your palm. Secondly the trim bit I linked runs under the hole, it cuts the laminate flush with the wood edge. Its absolutely the best two things to use when cleaning up holes, edges, and anything else on the Hardtop.

#1726 3 years ago
Quoted from xamindar:

That Grand Lizard looks nice.
On inserts, what are the options when they are 40 years old and faded?
My BK has those jeweled inserts that I am pretty sure are unavailable.
Do you just stick colored LEDs under them and call it a day?
Or is there some colored overlay that can be used?

Honestly the options are few. First clean the underside of the insert. I can't tell you how many times I see people complain how 'dim' an incandescent bulb is so they put in LED's to brighten the insert, but the insert itself is completely filthy underneath. Second, you can clear coat the insert to eliminate cracks and fissures that dampen the brightness. Faded inserts, not sure that is fixable, but cooled LEDs could be the answer. I would resource your inserts though, most inserts can be found. In fact, because BK has been done by CPR there could be all of them floating out there. You'll just need to check with all the common sources.

#1730 3 years ago

No. I think they cull the ones that don't look perfect but a few slip out. I have done a EK and a Wizard and they both look perfect.

2 months later
#1783 3 years ago
Quoted from jaytrem:

I was wondering if anybody even sold a machine with a hardtop already installed yet. I think it's still too early to tell what will happen price wise. I'm guessing most of the hardtop machines are still with the original owners. I have no plans of selling mine any time soon. And I also put in a lot of other new parts, so who knows what price increase can be attributed to specifically to the hardtop. Time should give us an idea though.

I have a Wizard Im going to sell soon with a HT on it but I haven't fished for any buyers yet. I would assume there is an increase in value if the original was blown out. The game plays excellent with them installed, my EK is also very fast and plays beautiful.

#1796 3 years ago
Quoted from jaytrem:

Wow, that does not sound easy!

Ya I would never do a HT install inside a cab. Plus all the playfield prep is messy and creates more cleanup inside a cab

8 months later
#2123 2 years ago
Quoted from KnockerPTSD:

What type of glue are people using to reinstall their rollovers?

I use a two part epoxy, just make sure you clean up the opening and sand the side of the insert.

2 weeks later
#2144 2 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

A fellow pinsider hooked me up with the waterslide for the scores. I applied it and using a small brush, covered it up with some automotive touchup clear to feather in the edges (I've used this same stuff to protect saucers and kickouts I've repainted and it's held up great so I'm pretty confident in the durability). I know some people would've re-cleared the whole playfield after adding the scores waterslide but this is good enough for me![quoted image]

Going to just mylar mine, from the players position you can't possibly see it.

1 week later
#2151 2 years ago

This! Tapping them on top of the hardtop could create an issue wit the stress of the had being pushed down over a void. Just widen the hole so they are flush. May be a good idea to fill the beveled holes(toothpick in the middle) then install the mounts as directed.

1 week later
#2156 2 years ago

Mousin Around!

4 months later
#2326 2 years ago

I use a trim bit for all the material that is not lined up.

How I address the bare wood is, I paint the openings the corresponding color and seal it with clear before I lay the Hardtop down. This keeps it from attracting the eye to the obvious wood grain.

#2333 2 years ago

I would think alignment would be that much more difficult without some kind of reference from the bottom to the top of the playfield. The process is to make sure the inserts are aligned at the bottom the best, working your way up to the top, when lining the HT onto the original PF.

#2339 2 years ago

Why use a rotary tool? Go to harbor freight and get a cheap trim-bit router, a trim bit at HD or Lowes, and go to town on every hole without worry? They use them on every piece of counter or cabinet laminate on the planet. Same principal.

#2360 2 years ago
Quoted from A1k71:

[quoted image]

Start from the bottom up, not the top down. That way if theres a slight off-set, its out of the eyes view.

#2369 2 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

amazon.com link »
Highly recommend this flush trim bit. You can basically just trace around holes like a router, it's awesome. You may still need to go free hand for the rollover inserts though.
[quoted image]

What I've been sayin'.....its butter!

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