(Topic ID: 218168)

Official "HARDTOPS" thread

By Skypilot

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 3,290 posts
  • 502 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 20 days ago by Gorgar666
  • Topic is favorited by 283 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“If we produce a Hardtop for this game would yo purchase it?”

  • High Speed 174 votes
    13%
  • Firepower 128 votes
    10%
  • Silverball Mania 62 votes
    5%
  • Time Warp 30 votes
    2%
  • Mata Hari 55 votes
    4%
  • Blackout 94 votes
    7%
  • Tri-Zone 26 votes
    2%
  • Swords of Fury 74 votes
    6%
  • Space Station 78 votes
    6%
  • Fathom 70 votes
    5%
  • Pinbot 134 votes
    10%
  • Eight Ball Deluxe 124 votes
    9%
  • Strikes and Spares 56 votes
    4%
  • Kiss (Bally) 70 votes
    5%
  • Supersonic 51 votes
    4%
  • Grand Lizard 80 votes
    6%

(Multiple choice - 1306 votes by 786 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

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There are 3,290 posts in this topic. You are on page 62 of 66.
#3051 1 year ago
Quoted from billsgto:

The journey has just begun. It's amazing how much dirt accumulates over the years. I've got a lot of mylar adhesive residue, does anyone have a recommendation for how to remove it before sanding?
[quoted image]

Rubbing alcohol.

#3052 1 year ago
Quoted from kciaccio:

Rubbing alcohol.

with flour into a paste.

#3053 1 year ago

What's the best way to deal with drop targets after a hardtop installation? Did you put a piece of hardtop material on top of each one to make up for the new playfield height, or is it nothing to worry about?

#3054 1 year ago

I think most don't worry about the slight change in height.

#3055 1 year ago

Sometimes you do have to make adjustments, especially for in-line drop targets (you don't want the ball getting stuck on top of a downed target, or "thumping" when rolling over them). I had to adjust the height of the 2x/3x/4x/5x in-line drop targets on my '84 EBD. Fortunately, you can adjust the height within the drop target mechanism itself on that game, no shims needed.

#3056 1 year ago

On my Whirlwind Hardtop... you can see the orange artwork goes up around 8" further on the shooter lane. Is this by design?

Also.... when it's time for the adhesive backing to be removed... there will be a space in in the center going up the shooter lane on the Hardtop. Would you try & match the Hardtop orange & paint that wood part on the shooter lane or just leave it showing the wood underneath?
IMG_20230115_221912 (resized).jpgIMG_20230115_221912 (resized).jpgIMG_20230115_221926 (resized).jpgIMG_20230115_221926 (resized).jpg

#3057 1 year ago

No turning back now! Wood is done, just have to smooth out the inserts then put a seal coat on. Hoping to install the hardtop next weekend!

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#3058 1 year ago
Quoted from wastedthelight:

No turning back now! Wood is done, just have to smooth out the inserts then put a seal coat on. Hoping to install the hardtop next weekend![quoted image][quoted image]

I've got to do this one, once I get done with all these playfield swaps and and scratch builds...

#3059 1 year ago
Quoted from wastedthelight:

No turning back now! Wood is done, just have to smooth out the inserts then put a seal coat on. Hoping to install the hardtop next weekend![quoted image][quoted image]

Do you have this playfield lock in a rockwell jaw horse?

I have one of those and have never even given it a thought.

I've had my chop saw and platform in it so long that i barely remembered what it actually was, lol.

#3060 1 year ago
Quoted from jcar302:

Do you have this playfield lock in a rockwell jaw horse?

Sure do! It's not a great solution for this honestly. With all the electronics hanging down, you have to get it just right to straddle...and while locking it down I've let it slip and it's hit down on the saw horse...So now I have to triple check all the parts before firing it back up, make sure things aren't touching due to getting bent. Recommendation, use actual sawhorses!

Sanded the inserts today. I already replaced the top white ones. Actually wish I did them all kind of. People made it sound more difficult than it is. But I think it'll be just fine in the end. Clear coat tomorrow!

#3061 1 year ago

I realize I'm only one voice, but I would purchase a Paragon hardtop the moment I became aware they existed and would gladly join a list or even prepay.

#3062 1 year ago

Definitely Bally Playboy!

#3063 1 year ago
Quoted from BOBBUZZ:

Definitely Bally Playboy!

Licensed game so probably not going to happen. CPR does a playfield for it though

1 week later
#3064 1 year ago

It was a long process...but SHE LIVES!! The hardtop looks amazing! Plays so much better now too! I have some adjustments to make on the flippers and switches, but it's great to have it back up and running again.

I'm slow, so I'd say it took me 20hrs to complete.

Tips
- Take pictures of EVERYTHING during the stages of tearing down the playfield! I took photos before I started, after removing plastic graphics, after removing posts but placing screws back (to document which screws were where), and before removing any parts (flippers/switches). This saved me multiple times from playing the guessing game.

- Don't attempt to install it alone! I couldn't imagine getting this in place correctly solo.

- Easy with the Dremel. Don't focus on trimming out rollovers or whatever else for more than a second, it heats up and the hardtop will start melting. This will cause lifted edges around your hole, so you'd need to trim back further to get rid of it. Flick off any plastic as you're doing it so it's still warm, before it quickly hardens, making it more difficult to get off to create a smooth and flat edge. Thankfully I realized this early so I didn't run into much of an issue.

Issues I ran into:
- Screw and other holes weren't perfectly aligned. As others told me, the older playfield was made by several people and wasn't done exactly the same between them. So screw holes or bumpers might be just a smidge off. Simply (carefully) trim out where needed. No fault of the Hardtop, the vast majority were perfect.

- Hardtop sticks out around the outside edges (ha!), trim it to avoid various issues. I almost had a catastrophic incident with it sandwiched in my Jawhorse.

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#3065 1 year ago

Im not a big fan of colored GI, But that looks fantastic! Great job.

#3066 1 year ago
Quoted from 29REO:

***Bally Strikes & Spares*** +1

+2

#3067 1 year ago

Excited to see the Whirlwind hardtop finally available! When sanding the playfield down after removing everything, what should I put in the open holes to prevent the dust/particles from going into the mechs underneath?

Also, my Whirlwind has some really bad raised inserts, so I'm assuming I'd have to use a C Clamp to push them back down?

#3068 1 year ago
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:

Excited to see the Whirlwind hardtop finally available! When sanding the playfield down after removing everything, what should I put in the open holes to prevent the dust/particles from going into the mechs underneath?
Also, my Whirlwind has some really bad raised inserts, so I'm assuming I'd have to use a C Clamp to push them back down?

I used earplugs in lamp sockets, and then used painters tape on the bottom of the playfield to cover everything else.

Usually I replace all the inserts when doing a HT, probably not 100% necessary, but if you already got it all stripped down, and they have issues, probably worth the time and very cheap. Also gives you the option of changing to starburst or other patterns/colors if you choose. I've also seen people use clear inserts, and then use LEDs to change the color, not everywhere but specific areas.

#3069 1 year ago
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:

Excited to see the Whirlwind hardtop finally available! When sanding the playfield down after removing everything, what should I put in the open holes to prevent the dust/particles from going into the mechs underneath?
Also, my Whirlwind has some really bad raised inserts, so I'm assuming I'd have to use a C Clamp to push them back down?

Earplugs and painters tape worked for me too. I cut earplugs in half so they wouldn't stick up and out as much for sanding. Though a lot flew out during sanding, ha. Made sure to check all of them and painters tape before applying clear coat. Also had to double up earplugs for slightly larger holes, otherwise used painters tape. For bumpers I used four earplugs and stuffed them in. I'm not sure why I didn't just use painters tape for those too, ha.

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#3070 1 year ago

So I laid down a little too much clear paint in one or two spots that hasn't dried in over two days. Any suggestions on how to remove the still tacky excess paint or do I just wait it out a few more days until it dries completely? (And then another 72 hours after that to install the hardtop)

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#3071 1 year ago
Quoted from billsgto:

So I laid down a little too much clear paint in one or two spots that hasn't dried in over two days. Any suggestions on how to remove the still tacky excess paint or do I just wait it out a few more days until it dries completely? (And then another 72 hours after that to install the hardtop)
[quoted image]

If it was summer I'd say try laying it out int he sun for a while. Maybe sit a box fan next to it and let it blow over the playfield for a day or two,

#3072 1 year ago

If any wide body Hardtops get created I think a good candidate would be the Williams Stellar Wars. Seems like a lot of those playfields get trashed.

#3073 1 year ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If any wide body Hardtops get created I think a good candidate would be the Williams Stellar Wars. Seems like a lot of those playfields get trashed.

Future Spa has been done quite a while ago.

#3074 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Future Spa has been done quite a while ago.

I missed that one. Maybe there is hope for Stellar Wars then.

#3076 1 year ago
Quoted from billsgto:

So I laid down a little too much clear paint in one or two spots that hasn't dried in over two days. Any suggestions on how to remove the still tacky excess paint or do I just wait it out a few more days until it dries completely? (And then another 72 hours after that to install the hardtop)
[quoted image]

If it hasn't dried in 2 days I'd be concerned that there's some sort of contamination that will affect it long term.

Usually you can test lacquer thinner or alcohol. But ultimately id sand it and reapply a light coat. Why risk finding an adhesion issue after install.

#3077 1 year ago
Quoted from jgreene:

If it hasn't dried in 2 days I'd be concerned that there's some sort of contamination that will affect it long term.
Usually you can test lacquer thinner or alcohol. But ultimately id sand it and reapply a light coat. Why risk finding an adhesion issue after install.

this and at this point in the game, other than the hard to find inserts. Not sure why everyone isn't just replacing the inserts rather than trying to sand and polish/ clear everything. little heat top and bottom and they pop out like butter. 5 min epoxy and send. My first hardtop i went the polish route, did a clear coat job on a game and replaced the inserts this time. way way easier and came out better

#3078 1 year ago

Great advice... unless you have a Black Knight with jewel inserts.

#3079 1 year ago
Quoted from hockeymutt:this and at this point in the game, other than the hard to find inserts. Not sure why everyone isn't just replacing the inserts rather than trying to sand and polish/ clear everything. little heat top and bottom and they pop out like butter. 5 min epoxy and send. My first hardtop i went the polish route, did a clear coat job on a game and replaced the inserts this time. way way easier and came out better

If I ever do one again, I'll likely replace all inserts instead of just a few rough looking ones. This time I only replaced regular 4 inserts, plus 5 rollovers. I would once again sand and clear coat it though. I don't want to worry about that old paint peeling up. Get it off and adhere it to a good clean surface.

11
#3080 1 year ago

I just finished up my second hardtop project and can't say enough good things about this product!

IMG_20230215_225354783 (resized).jpgIMG_20230215_225354783 (resized).jpg
#3081 1 year ago
Quoted from hockeymutt:

Not sure why everyone isn't just replacing the inserts rather than trying to sand and polish/ clear everything.

"Replacing inserts" is one of those things that sounds so simple because it can have like what, all of 4 steps to do, but in reality can be a major PITA.

I've replaced at least "some" inserts on 5 games, and replaced all of them on a Firepower. And out of let's say ~150 inserts placed into a playfield, maybe a dozen drop-fit with no grief. ALL of them had to have the mold ID marks sanded off the top. Which SUCKS because kiss that fresh smooth factory gloss surface goodbye: you're right back to sanding and polishing, so... hmm, might should have done that to the insert in the game?

And the vast majority of them were too big to fit the playfield hole. Sometimes by only a hair's width, others by as much as 1mm (or seemingly more). So, yay: now you're sanding down beyond the mold marks, and further into the plastic, to find the narrower taper profile that will fit flush to the PF surface.

Now this may not be an issue when the rest of the pf is trash, and you can just slap the inserts in and sand everything down smooth to your heart's content, reducing surrounding art to bare wood. If you're dealing with a Hardtop, that may well be the case.

But especially on a finished playfield with nice art, it's a REAL bear to do right. So "replacing inserts" is hardly the universal easy pick-and-place process it seems like it should be. Caution is warranted, every situation is unique.

Quoted from Michel_K17:

Great advice... unless you have a Black Knight with jewel inserts.

I've played a small handful of Black Knights, but only just the other day finally saw one with the original jeweled inserts. WOW but they do look amazing. I think that's the only version I'd want now.

#3082 1 year ago

So I am working on a game for a client and it has a hardtop that from what I understand was part of a bad batch. Outside Edge provided a new hardtop for my client, and my job is to install it. I have installed a few of them at this point, but I have never removed one. Any tips or tricks I should know about?

#3083 1 year ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

I've replaced at least "some" inserts on 5 games, and replaced all of them on a Firepower. And out of let's say ~150 inserts placed into a playfield, maybe a dozen drop-fit with no grief. ALL of them had to have the mold ID marks sanded off the top. Which SUCKS because kiss that fresh smooth factory gloss surface goodbye: you're right back to sanding and polishing, so... hmm, might should have done that to the insert in the game?

Sanding the top is a good thing because you want to sand it flush with the playfield surface. Sanding the sides is important for adhesion, but it does really suck when they won’t fit!! I’m doing an F-14 and it is pure misery with those big arrows.

#3084 1 year ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

So I am working on a game for a client and it has a hardtop that from what I understand was part of a bad batch. Outside Edge provided a new hardtop for my client, and my job is to install it. I have installed a few of them at this point, but I have never removed one. Any tips or tricks I should know about?

Here's my experience in this area:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hardtop-install-and-restoration-for-eight-ball-deluxe/page/3#post-5861443

Requires some strength at first to pull it off, then lots of patience (and GooGone) to scrape up the remaining ink and adhesive residue with a plastic scraper. It's rather tedious work.

#3085 1 year ago

Hello,

Any updates from Outside Edge about up coming titles?

#3086 12 months ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

So I am working on a game for a client and it has a hardtop that from what I understand was part of a bad batch. Outside Edge provided a new hardtop for my client, and my job is to install it. I have installed a few of them at this point, but I have never removed one. Any tips or tricks I should know about?

I messed up an F-14 and had to pull it off. Heat worked well but the majority of the adhesive stayed on the PF. Then I'd roll the adhesive up in big chunks. After that it's just like peeling mylar, rub flour or baking soda into it hard and use some rubbing alcohol to scrape the rest off.

A real PITA but it worked.

#3087 12 months ago

Anyone on here planning to take their Hardtop games to Pinbrew?

#3088 12 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If any wide body Hardtops get created I think a good candidate would be the Williams Stellar Wars. Seems like a lot of those playfields get trashed.

Flight 2000!

#3089 12 months ago

+1 for Meteor. Would be pretty easy to install because it's mostly drop target game and there are plenty of machines with wear that need them. I'd buy one on day one

1 week later
#3090 11 months ago

Space Station

#3091 11 months ago

This. Most every one I see needs some love. Such a great game too!

Chris

#3092 11 months ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

This. Most every one I see needs some love. Such a great game too!
Chris

Really would like one for Space Station. All the ones I find need a hard top! Did a Space Shuttle hard top and it was awesome!

#3093 11 months ago

Bruce,
Please make this happen. Space Station HT will be a big seller. I have turned away jobs because this has not been available. Could have done three by now.
Lets make this happen.
PinDoc.

#3094 11 months ago

Also need space station. Mine was a squirrel restroom.

#3095 11 months ago

Someone mentioned how easy Meteor would be because it's all drops and TBH I had never looked at it *that* closely to realize..it literally is all drops. Wild. That hardtop would take an afternoon, lol. I've actually got a beautiful, retouched/cleared Meteor CPR playfield ready to swap.

I'm still begging for a Flight 2000. Mine is so unbelievably sad. I'll hardtop it immediately if one gets released for it.

#3096 11 months ago

I finally sold my Space Station project. I would have snapped up a hard top.

#3097 11 months ago
hardtop (resized).pnghardtop (resized).png
#3098 11 months ago
Quoted from slag:

[quoted image]

Doesn’t look like Space Station.

#3099 11 months ago
Quoted from radium:

Doesn’t look like Space Station.

Not a fan ?

#3100 11 months ago
Quoted from slag:

[quoted image]

…guessing CF???

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