Any new news on the cabinet decals they are making for Space Shuttle?
The sample picture looked really cool and I starting a restore on a Space Shuttle.

Cabinet decals, for space shuttle, where did you see the image? I'd be interested in seeing these.

Is Stern SS machines on the future?
I could use a Flight 2000 hardtop

Space Shuttle is worth the time to stencil it instead of decals.

I was waiting for Space Station to show up, but I think I'll end up selling my project since it never came through.

I've thought about it, I've had my shuttle for 25 years, just curious about other options.

My F14 hardtop will be here tomorrow.
Thanks for all the information you all have contributed to this thread.
I have some decisions to weight on how I will proceed concerning insert prep, sanding, and clear.
Looking forward to a fun Christmas break working through it.

I can't find them now but the blue had a glitter effect in the vinyl and looked awesome.
EDIT I found the shot..

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Those are cool,are they from outside edge and do they have decals for the head as well?

I'm not soon planning to part with my Station but I too am very frustrated with OE's delay on this title. I can't understand what the issue would be, it's not like it's licensed or anything. 5 years on with hardtops, that was teased as a Group One title, and yet we never get any straight feedback from OE. I've offered my game/pf (I'm not *too* far from them) for the effort and... nothing. I mean, Space Station might not be the hottest title out there these days, but then neither are Time Warp or Gorgar or Flash and others...

Come on OE! Nothing personal, I loved my Gorgar hardtop, would buy again... just make what I need and want!

Well, my Soace Shuttle (clearcoated before install and I didn't do the install) lifted some on the drive from Colorado to Kansas but seemed to press down okay after. I sold it so I don't know how it's holding up.

My high speed wasn't clearcoated (I did the hardtop) and seems to be fine with no/minimal lifting.

Eight ball deluxe hardtop #1 wasn't clearcoated but the hardtop was defective and grenaded itself. Attempt #2 was clearcoated and NOT a defective hardtop but did have more lifting than I wanted.

Mata hari hardtop #1 wasn't clearcoated, has resided in my cool shop for months, and I've been fighting lifting repeatedly. My lifting is happening mostly in the wide open area in the middle.

So...idk. I've not started tearing down the second mata hari (it's on the rotisserie waiting) due to low motivation.

Are you leaving 44/47 bulbs in the under the inserts or do you switch them with LEDs? I’m wondering if heat from bulbs is the issue causing the lifting.

Always LEDs. Incandescent bulbs are gross.

How long after installing are you first seeing lifting? Right away, weeks, months, years?

On my Flash Gordon hardtop I installed Yopsicles to combat heat and flickering. Looks great, no flicker, and no heat.

I really want to do the yopsicles on a project. I always put LEDs under my clear coated playfields and hardtops. I left 47s in my Strato flite at first when I went the protector route and after one night of playing the heat from the inserts deformed the playfield protector. I love 44s for GI in older games but you can’t risk it under inserts. That heat loves to mess with plastic and clear coat.

Space Shuttle and High Speed were done a few years ago. EBD last year. Mata Hari earlier this year.

I do want to point out that I'm not saying I think there's some issue with the adhesive formula or anything like that. Just saying that given my experience I recommend the clear as an added assist to it because I can't see it doing ANYTHING negative while potentially offering plenty of positives. A few frustrations aside, I do still like and support this product.

I used Yopsicles for the controlled lights and rollovers. That’s like 85% of the bulbs in the playfield. The rest of the GI with LED bulbs. Super easy to install the Yopsicles. Only tip is to add a blob of solder to the Yopsicles before installing. I think he ships them that way now, but if not, do it prior to bolting them down.

Thanks. I did a complete sand down and shellacked mine. Seems to be okay so far. Appreciate the info. I won’t lay awake at night worrying now.

Yeah, don't. As far as I know, my few issues (including the defective EBD) are isolated and not indicative of overall production or anything like that. Consider it one-off stuff, maybe even environmental stuff. Who knows. Like I said, I still support this product and I'm happy it continues to exist.

I keep hearing that the hardtop will have lifting problems if it is installed a year after purchase. Is this true? Is there an official expiration date on the adhesive? If so, this should be disclosed when buying.

Looked around, nothing in the FAQ about this...
http://www.outsideedgeproducts.com/hardtop-faq.html

2 years is what I go by, based on this:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-hardtops-thread/page/8#post-4705231

Thank you, that is disconcerting. I will send them an email.

I looked at the company website that makes the adhesive, and I called the guys at hardtops. Mine was four years old. The company literature indicated that if it was stored in a cool environment it should be fine after four years. The guys at hardtop said if it was stored flat and kept cool like room temperature cool it should be fine. So far, mine has stuck like a son of a gun.

So are these things dated? How do you know you are not getting one that has been stored in a hot warehouse for too long? Sorry if these questions have been answered. Didn't see any of this information on the Outside edge website. I was also trying to find where their physical store location is at (if in a hot or humid area).

If you buy direct from OE, chances are the hardtop was made anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple of months from when you received it. If you buy thru a dealer (like Marcos) they may have had it in their inventory for some additional time on top of that.

General rule of thumb - if buy your hardtop and install it within ~18 months, you're fine from the "adhesive expiring" perspective.

Ok cool. I’ll definitely order after the playfield has been prepped and is ready, and order directly from OE. Seems like a good strategy.

This is what OE told me as well. Store it in a cool dry place and there’s nothing to worry about. Most problems are installation errors, contamination, bad surface prep, etc. I believe it… think of how many BAD clear, paint and decal jobs get posted on Pinside… most people don’t know wtf they’re doing and don’t research first. Easy to just blame the adhesive and now this myth about 1 year has started.

He also said keep hot bulbs away… use LED to be safe.

Lol who needs adhesive when you can just use screws?

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I hate that people do this with hardtops, I'd be willing to bet nothing was done to prep that install, probably just stripped the top, windexed the playfield and slapped it on there before the surface was dry, then put the same dirty rubbers back on and installed the same ball, then got into Allentown for free with it. Set it up with 3 legs and a stool, then some "hardtop hater" played it and now says stupid shit like "I dont like Hardtopped playfields, It just plays different..."

That's very obviously one of the defective EBDs. The screws very clearly aren't the answer but this is exactly how mine separated. Grenaded itself on the very first play.

Yikes. Bad times.

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I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I know all of mine have been prepped correctly and all instructions have been followed to the letter, although I've definitely gone back and forth on clear. Sometimes things just happen. Similarly to how you can't really expect a 100% perfectly lined up fit on 100% of the machines, you can't expect 100% of the 30-40+ year old machines to all be in the same condition for applying the hardtop. That for me is more reason than any to just go ahead and do the clear, every time.

Yeah that looks exactly like a defective hardtop, likely from the initial run. I had it happen too, much like @ksuwildcatfan. Contact Bruce at OutsideEdge and he might be able to help you out, @romm.

The screw “solution” though

You need to post the pictures with the screws in the Pinball horror thread. That is just crazy.

Considering how hard mine pulled up in the middle (the ball literally LAUNCHED itself at the glass) when it pulled up...I'm not surprised they did it. Granted, a syringe and superglue probably would have been much more elegant......

Yeah, definitely belongs in the horror thread.

I've been tiring kicking a hard top for my beater space shuttle for years.
My little guy loves the game, has no clue it's mostly bare wood with insert decals (not done by me). Plays just fine for him.

I read all your guys posts and i have my days where i want to do a hard top, but others where i think a playfield would be better for me.
Not because i'm some kind of purist, more so because a playfield swap is just mechanical work to me. It sounds like a hardtop is a little more detail orientated and the whole glue lifting, debris and dirt in the inserts, polish or don't polish, clear or don't clear makes me rethink the idea.

I know space shuttle playfields are out of stock, but i'll guess they will do another run at some point.

I'd be curious on how many hardtops come out great and how many are mediocre or fail.

A playfield is always the better option if the original can't be fixed.

Shuttle is a great-playing hardtop title.

Of the ones I've played I think the hardtop experience is much better on williams games than on classic bally. This is solely MY experience/opinion so take it with a grain of salt. But I have yet to play a williams hardtop I didn't REALLY enjoy. And my shuttle played great. Highly recommended.

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To be clear guys, I'm not worried about how a hardtop plays, we are playing on roughed up wood now, lol. More worried about doing it right and having it come out well. Where that's not a worry for me for a playfield swap. Though I really don't want to invest another grand plus plastics in this machine.

Right. That's why I'm saying the hardtop is a great route to take. It's really not difficult at all (I did my high speed before I knew ANYTHING about working on pins) to do and you'll be happy with the results. For about 1/3 the cost of a swap and with far less labor..it's the way to go IMO. Keep in mind if you decide to swap you really should plan on reclearing the new playfield too. That's another couple hundred bucks... it adds up fast.

I don't think I've seen a Williams Flash on here yet so I figured I'd post it even though it's not done. They did a great job. I think everyone knows that LEDs don't photograph well at this point but the inserts look white and orange as they should, or red I guess depending on who manufactured your pin... I changed all rubbers and posts for clears to get more GI lighting out, and just so happened to blow a fust right before snapping a pic.

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Just wanted to bring some positivity back to a post where these guys have made an amazing option to restore games that no one in their right mind would spend the money on a playfield swap. I can't wait to flip this machine again and not have to roll over all those warped inserts!

While there have certainly been some people on this thread here and there who are simply here to cause drama and hate on the product for *whatever reason*, I don't think it's necessarily overly negative to let the community know of potential shortcomings, failures, advice, etc. No company is perfect. By and large I think the bulk of us are pleased with OE and want them to continue with this adventure. But sometimes that means they need to receive what may not be overly rose-y feedback also.

I'm hoping it warms back up soon so I can find motivation to go finish my first Mata Hari hardtop (some switches to work through) and then start on the second. This cold is crushing my drive to do any work in my shop.

My pics and vid probably give a negative vib. Wasn’t my attempt as for awhile now I have been wanting to find a machine to do a hardtop on. I had no intent to both remove an old one and install new one lol. Not sure what the circumstances were when the hard was installed on The 8ball deluxe I just got (prep, old expired hardtop?). Hardtop is jacked up and the machine wasn’t working. Just got it working yesterday. Cleaned it up, adjusted a bunch of switches, etc, and the machine is still a blast to play even with the hardtop issues. Pretty sure I’ll be ordering a hardtop from Outside Edge sometime early next year.

Your EBD has a defective hardtop. Compare your pictures to mine. The ink separated from the hardtop because the formula was messed with. You may well be able to get that replaced, and you should send Bruce a message about it.

In this case, no amount of prep would have kept it from doing this. Whoever did it probably figured they were screwed OR decided there was no way in hell they were stripping it back off and redoing, opting instead to just force it down with screws. Its a terrible solution but I can understand the amount of anger they may well have had at that point. I almost ran mine over with my truck after having paid someone a bunch of cash to do it (I was ready to just sell the machine and move on) only to have to strip and redo it for myself.

I was going to do my EBD and Taxi with a hardtop but seen a few issues and I don’t like taking risks especially with my time, I ended up doing touch ups on EBD and insert decals for Taxi with a playfield protector on both. Very happy with them, play great.

I would end up in a rage and smashing the hell out of them if the hardtop started lifting, they do look great though.

If your machines were fine with touch ups and insert decals, i'm not sure the hardtop was the solution anyway.
There have been a few times here where people want to do hardtops on decent pins, which makes no sense to me.
My space shuttle is like 75% bare wood win the middle, there is no touch up in the world that would fix this.

My high speed was very borderline on whether it could be touched up or not. I'm sure they're are plenty of people who would say it was 'wrong'. It was above my pay grade to touch it up so I hardtopped it. No regrets. It was faded anyway, and I didn't like it.

At the end of the day it's your property to do with as you please. If you want to light it on fire in your living room, you certainly can.

But ultimately I do agree, hardtops shouldn't just be slapped on everything. I much prefer to see them put on games that look like hammered dog sh1t.

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