(Topic ID: 218168)

Official "HARDTOPS" thread

By Skypilot

4 years ago


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  • 2,702 posts
  • 445 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by 80spit
  • Topic is favorited by 254 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“If we produce a Hardtop for this game would yo purchase it?”

  • High Speed 166 votes
    14%
  • Firepower 122 votes
    10%
  • Silverball Mania 59 votes
    5%
  • Time Warp 29 votes
    2%
  • Mata Hari 50 votes
    4%
  • Blackout 89 votes
    7%
  • Tri-Zone 24 votes
    2%
  • Swords of Fury 68 votes
    6%
  • Space Station 63 votes
    5%
  • Fathom 57 votes
    5%
  • Pinbot 130 votes
    11%
  • Eight Ball Deluxe 116 votes
    10%
  • Strikes and Spares 52 votes
    4%
  • Kiss (Bally) 60 votes
    5%
  • Supersonic 44 votes
    4%
  • Grand Lizard 70 votes
    6%

(Multiple choice - 1199 votes by 714 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

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There are 2,702 posts in this topic. You are on page 53 of 55.
#2601 79 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

So in the video he is using a sanding drum and not a router bit. I can see the sanding drum being okay for after the HT is stuck because I cant really see the dust getting getting forced under the HT. The router chips may be a different story. Again I am speculating that this may be an issue. I don't know because I have never tried it.
On the last couple hard tops I have stuck, there were areas in the HT around the holes that did not have adhesive. So if there is no adhesive, you now have a very small clearance or pocket for the chips to get forced into. If this were to happen, you would have to dig the chips out. Also, in the video, there is no missing adhesive around that insert, so there is no risk at all there.
IMO the safest way to go is to clamp the HT and route the holes out, and then stick it. If you align the HT properly and clamp it before sticking it, it will go on perfectly.

OK, I see your concern about debris getting permanently stuck between the HT and the PF.
I was just looking over my HT with that in mind, I did not see any hole I need to route where the adhesive is not completely encircling the hole.
The worst case scenario I can imagine is routing all the holes and then sticking the HT off kilter.
Maybe I'm just over thinking as usual.

-7
#2602 79 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

I beg to differ. As I mentioned a few months ago in this topic, I purchased my hardtop WITHOUT the various holes pre-cut. I was able to align the inserts perfectly and then I routed out the holes for the lamps, switches etc.
Now all these holes are dead nuts perfect and the tell tale details of a hardtop cant be seen. My last hardtop is 100% indecernible from a new clearcoated playfied, and it was fairly easy to do.
This is the only way I will install hardtops going forward.

first off, it is not indistinguishable from a clear coated wood field unless the people looking are blind. Second, regardless of if you cut your own holes there is no guarantee that the art will match the existing field. All fields have variations, even ones made in the same factory. Using shuttle as an example again, not only are the center inserts and text different depending on what field you have there is also a variation that the art is literally longer on the field but about a 1/4 inch. It is literally impossible for a overlay of any kind to fit all these variations. an overlay is always a compromise at some point. Some are better than others.

#2603 79 days ago
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:

What router do you use for it?

A trim router will work fine, but a full size router will work but be bulkier to deal with.

-2
#2604 79 days ago
Quoted from Budwin:

This is kind of a big deal on routing the holes pre-sticking vs. after sticking.
Seems like the best precision would be after sticking, but can shavings actually get under the HT?
Keith recommends routing the roll over holes after sticking. (according to the video I watched)

if its properly stuck down there should be no way to get anything under it. If stuff gets under it you had already messed up.

#2605 79 days ago
Quoted from pinballizfun:

first off, it is not indistinguishable from a clear coated wood field unless the people looking are blind. Second, regardless of if you cut your own holes there is no guarantee that the art will match the existing field. All fields have variations, even ones made in the same factory. Using shuttle as an example again, not only are the center inserts and text different depending on what field you have there is also a variation that the art is literally longer on the field but about a 1/4 inch. It is literally impossible for a overlay of any kind to fit all these variations. an overlay is always a compromise at some point. Some are better than others.

Good point. I have no idea what I am talking about. I will ignore my lying eyes and check my opinions at the door from now on.

#2606 79 days ago
Quoted from pinballizfun:

if its properly stuck down there should be no way to get anything under it. If stuff gets under it you had already messed up.

Tell me you've never applied a hardtop and know nothing about hardtops without telling me you know nothing about hardtops.

I'll give you one nod about variations in playfields because of course that happened (hotdogs vs non-hotdogs on shuttle, etc). Otherwise, most of what you say comes across as a really desperate attempt for attention. I can't believe you're this persistent with it.

#2607 79 days ago
Quoted from pinballizfun:

if its properly stuck down there should be no way to get anything under it. If stuff gets under it you had already messed up.

Your trolling of this thread is BS, please use your troll account somewhere else.

17
#2608 79 days ago

It's here! FedEx wasn't too kind to the package but I think these are ok. Need to look them over carefully. First impression is that they look amazing and will be nice to see how the game turns out with these installed.

HT_Elektra (resized).jpg
#2609 79 days ago

LOL

#2610 78 days ago

I looked over the thread relatively quickly, but I need some advice. I recently got a game with a hardtop installed and the person just put the hardtop on over the star rollovers. The rollover holes in the hardtop are creating ball traps. What do you good folks suggest to be the best way to remedy this?

#2612 78 days ago
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#2613 78 days ago

Wow that is amazing.... Sorry you have to deal with that.

#2614 78 days ago

Who the hell put the hardtop on top of the star rollovers????

You have to out this person, lol

#2615 78 days ago
Quoted from digdug2084:

I looked over the thread relatively quickly, but I need some advice. I recently got a game with a hardtop installed and the person just put the hardtop on over the star rollovers. The rollover holes in the hardtop are creating ball traps. What do you good folks suggest to be the best way to remedy this?

This is kind of funny, but only because it's happening to someone else and not to me. To actually address the issue though, I would think you'd have to remove the rollovers from the bottom of the playfield. Then you can safely cut out the inserts with a Dremel or router. Since you have to do it anyway, this may give us the definitive answer to the great debate of whether shavings will get under the hardtop if you cut it after it's been laid down. Thanks for taking one for the team.

#2616 78 days ago

My initial thought is that you would drill out the center of the star rollover as large as you can without hitting the wood ledge the rollover sits on. Then use your Dremel with the drum sander on it to clean out the rest of the rollover and hardtop until everything is thin enough to break out ( or keep going as needed to grind out the rest of the rollover). The idea would be to leave as much hardtop as possible (black outline around the rollover) so you can finish cutting it flush with the new rollover you will have to install.

#2617 78 days ago

Ultimately I think how comfortable you are with your tools might change what exact tool you use, but I think the process won't change too much.

#2618 78 days ago

It's going to be a sucky job, because if you enlarge the hole, it might affect the ball travel, or become another ball trap.

I'd probably clamp a plexi template over the rollover and then use a bearing router bit to clear out the old insert

Or use the plexi template and a brand new forstner bit in a drill press, shaving away the hardtop and insert

0310-0312_web (resized).pngd423cd1244c1b0ac8cf67b45da4a950b0f8f864a (resized).jpg
#2619 78 days ago

Yikes, I was hoping it was a Comet for your sake (only 1 rollover). I would try to break up one of the rollovers and see how much I can get out before cutting. They might be pretty brittle at this point. Would hit it (gently to start) with something about the size of the Hardtop hole and hopefully it splits like a log.

#2620 78 days ago
Quoted from jaytrem:

Yikes, I was hoping it was a Comet for your sake (only 1 rollover). I would try to break up one of the rollovers and see how much I can get out before cutting. They might be pretty brittle at this point. Would hit it (gently to start) with something about the size of the Hardtop hole and hopefully it splits like a log.

Careful with that, if you don’t soften the epoxy first you might pop up some ply. Not sure I’d try this if the hardtop is covering the seam.

#2621 78 days ago

Adding to the nightmare of that job, if you mess it up, they aren't selling FG hardtops anymore, so there's no backup plan. :/

#2622 78 days ago

Before I got my Xenon hardtop I watched a video of another guy installing it. He ran into an issue with the top rollover buttons not being able to go through because the hardtop holes were too small.

I got mine and have the same issue (amongst a few other issues). The holes have to be enlarged, which depending on your drilling experience might not end well. Just a heads up incase anyone is going to get a Xenon HT.

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#2623 78 days ago
Quoted from Galdaien:

He ran into an issue with the top rollover buttons not being able to go through because the hardtop holes were too small.

I got mine and have the same issue (amongst a few other issues). The holes have to be enlarged, which depending on your drilling experience might not end well.

Those holes are supposed to be too small.

Just like the Star Rollover holes.

You have to enlarge those holes to fit your particular playfield.

But don't drill (that could very well end in disaster).

Remove the buttons (there is a black spring clip on the back of them), then after you install the HT, you enlarge the HT holes with a dremel

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-hardtop-restoration-comet#post-4470140

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#2624 78 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Those holes are supposed to be too small.
Just like the Star Rollover holes.
You have to enlarge those holes to fit your particular playfield.
But don't drill (that could very well end in disaster).
Remove the buttons (there is a black spring clip on the back of them), then after you install the HT, you enlarge the HT holes with a dremel
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-hardtop-restoration-comet#post-4470140[quoted image]

I see. Thanks! I think I have one of those bits. I was going to try a step-drill bit but I wasn't thrilled to do it...

#2625 78 days ago
Quoted from Galdaien:

I see. Thanks! I think I have one of those bits. I was going to try a step-drill bit but I wasn't thrilled to do it...

That bit comes with the Dremel.

But if you have lost it, or worn it out, get one of those giant kits at harbor freight that have a zillion bits

#2626 78 days ago

Just to add about dealing with star rollovers with hardtops....it's right in the installation instructions and FAQ on Outside Edge's website:
________________________
Rollovers will need to be popped out, and have some small manual work done on the Hardtop hole after installation. You will then use a 2-part epoxy to glue them back in.
________________________

OE also has this video on their website showing how to enlarge the star rollover hole on the hardtop, after installation, and prior to putting in a new star rollover:

http://www.outsideedgeproducts.com/uploads/b/890360-583207973742842823/keith_hardtop_wizard_rollover_890.mp4

#2627 77 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

So in the video he is using a sanding drum and not a router bit. I can see the sanding drum being okay for after the HT is stuck because I cant really see the dust getting getting forced under the HT. The router chips may be a different story. Again I am speculating that this may be an issue. I don't know because I have never tried it.
On the last couple hard tops I have stuck, there were areas in the HT around the holes that did not have adhesive. So if there is no adhesive, you now have a very small clearance or pocket for the chips to get forced into. If this were to happen, you would have to dig the chips out. Also, in the video, there is no missing adhesive around that insert, so there is no risk at all there.
IMO the safest way to go is to clamp the HT and route the holes out, and then stick it. If you align the HT properly and clamp it before sticking it, it will go on perfectly.

OK, tonight I routed 33 holes and slots in my HT, I can confirm your finding that there is a SH*T ton of debris that is expelled while routing.
So, I am now in your camp about routing before sticking by clamping the HT in place.
I used your recommended 3/16 in. routing bit in my Dremel with the routing cage. (no problems and clean edges)
Thanks for your post, I now believe real experience trumps over thinking.

Router bit (resized).JPG
#2628 77 days ago
Quoted from Budwin:

OK, tonight I routed 33 holes and slots in my HT, I can confirm your finding that there is a SH*T ton of debris that is expelled while routing.
So, I am now in your camp about routing before sticking by clamping the HT in place.
I used your recommended 3/16 in. routing bit in my Dremel with the routing cage. (no problems and clean edges)
Thanks for your post, I now believe real experience trumps over thinking. [quoted image]

Nice! So the dremel does work? Was it battery or plug in?

#2629 77 days ago
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:

Nice! So the dremel does work? Was it battery or plug in?

Mine is a plug in 120VAC type.

#2630 77 days ago
Quoted from Budwin:

OK, tonight I routed 33 holes and slots in my HT, I can confirm your finding that there is a SH*T ton of debris that is expelled while routing.
So, I am now in your camp about routing before sticking by clamping the HT in place.
I used your recommended 3/16 in. routing bit in my Dremel with the routing cage. (no problems and clean edges)
Thanks for your post, I now believe real experience trumps over thinking. [quoted image]

Glad it worked out and your happy with it. Only other thing to add is to make sure you put a drop of oil on that bearing from time to time, and make sure it always spins freely.

#2631 77 days ago
Quoted from truemagoo102:

Adding to the nightmare of that job, if you mess it up, they aren't selling FG hardtops anymore, so there's no backup plan. :/

I still have several left

#2632 77 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's going to be a sucky job, because if you enlarge the hole, it might affect the ball travel, or become another ball trap.
I'd probably clamp a plexi template over the rollover and then use a bearing router bit to clear out the old insert
Or use the plexi template and a brand new forstner bit in a drill press, shaving away the hardtop and insert
[quoted image][quoted image]

FireBall Classic kicks ass!

#2633 77 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

It's here! FedEx wasn't too kind to the package but I think these are ok. Need to look them over carefully. First impression is that they look amazing and will be nice to see how the game turns out with these installed.
[quoted image]

That’s awesome! I’ve had one listed locally for awhile and may have to take it down so I can get this done on my game. Please report back once you’ve had time to look it over on your game.

#2634 76 days ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

Glad it worked out and your happy with it. Only other thing to add is to make sure you put a drop of oil on that bearing from time to time, and make sure it always spins freely.

Here is a short video of the router in action.
I was just roughing out the roll over holes prior to stick down. (there are 11 roll overs on this one)

#2635 76 days ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

I still have several left

Are they all maroon?

#2636 72 days ago

In reference to previous discussion about playfield coverings...

- Haggis Pinball offering 3 options for playfield -

1- Traditional Plywood/Clear Coat (@1:10 "additional cost because it's much more laborious").
2- Plywood/Acrylic with scratch resistant coating (standard).
3- Plywood/Acrylic without scratch resistant coating, but clear coated instead (for those who want clear coat feel).

** Link to additional videos... https://www.youtube.com/c/HaggisPinball/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

11
#2637 71 days ago

Just wrapped up my space shuttle hardtop. Needs a couple tweaks still, but I got to play a few games tonight!

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#2638 71 days ago

Looks great. What's going on with Hollywood Heat?

#2639 71 days ago
Quoted from ourdave76:

Looks great. What's going on with Hollywood Heat?

Thanks!

And that’s a great question on Hollywood Heat haha. Couple days ago it decided to quit mid game. Now it boots up but I can’t start a game, flippers and slings all still work even without a game going. Posted in the system 80b thread today to see if anyone has any thoughts. Hopefully someone does because I’m stumped at the moment.

#2640 71 days ago

Just started cleaning up an HH, a true barn find, mice nest and all that. Do you happen to have extra plastics or translite?

2 weeks later
#2641 57 days ago

Restoring a High Speed and ordered my Hard top earlier this week. Will be my first hard top install and excited to get it.

1 week later
#2642 50 days ago

I wanted to gauge if there were any consideration for Rollergames

I realize the licensing problems with creating an exact representation. I can't imagine it would be worth trying to strike a new agreement with Pepsi, or Thermos to include their brand on the finished product.

Still, could create fake brands that look the part.

#2643 50 days ago

More Classic Sterns (M-100 and M-200)!

#2644 50 days ago
Quoted from songofsixpence:

I wanted to gauge if there were any consideration for Rollergames
I realize the licensing problems with creating an exact representation. I can't imagine it would be worth trying to strike a new agreement with Pepsi, or Thermos to include their brand on the finished product.
Still, could create fake brands that look the part.

Earlier this year, CPR was on the hunt for a NOS or near-perfect playfield, so it might be on their docket coming up. I don't know if that means they worked out the licensing issues at all. Not just the brands, but also I'm sure somebody still holds the rights to the Rollergames franchise in some form.

-Hans

#2645 47 days ago

I think I asked this before but I don't remember. Why are there no Gottlieb hardtops available? I know the Gottlieb family is still involved and things are licensed through a certain individual. Every one likes money it seems so why aren't they licenced and being made? Obviously they would make money. What's the hold up?

#2646 47 days ago
Quoted from songofsixpence:

I can't imagine it would be worth trying to strike a new agreement with Pepsi, or Thermos to include their brand on the finished product.

Many times, companies will give you a limited license at no cost, because it's advertising for them and a run of a few hundred would not be worth the accounting costs.

#2647 43 days ago
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#2648 43 days ago

Bug guns, Hurricane and Nitro Ground Shaker?

#2649 43 days ago
Quoted from shimmydisc:

Bug guns, Hurricane and Nitro Ground Shaker?

Could be Twister...

#2650 43 days ago

That is a licensed theme, so I have to go with Whirlwind.

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