OK, I see your concern about debris getting permanently stuck between the HT and the PF.
I was just looking over my HT with that in mind, I did not see any hole I need to route where the adhesive is not completely encircling the hole.
The worst case scenario I can imagine is routing all the holes and then sticking the HT off kilter.
Maybe I'm just over thinking as usual.

first off, it is not indistinguishable from a clear coated wood field unless the people looking are blind. Second, regardless of if you cut your own holes there is no guarantee that the art will match the existing field. All fields have variations, even ones made in the same factory. Using shuttle as an example again, not only are the center inserts and text different depending on what field you have there is also a variation that the art is literally longer on the field but about a 1/4 inch. It is literally impossible for a overlay of any kind to fit all these variations. an overlay is always a compromise at some point. Some are better than others.

A trim router will work fine, but a full size router will work but be bulkier to deal with.

if its properly stuck down there should be no way to get anything under it. If stuff gets under it you had already messed up.

Good point. I have no idea what I am talking about. I will ignore my lying eyes and check my opinions at the door from now on.

Tell me you've never applied a hardtop and know nothing about hardtops without telling me you know nothing about hardtops.

I'll give you one nod about variations in playfields because of course that happened (hotdogs vs non-hotdogs on shuttle, etc). Otherwise, most of what you say comes across as a really desperate attempt for attention. I can't believe you're this persistent with it.

Your trolling of this thread is BS, please use your troll account somewhere else.

It's here! FedEx wasn't too kind to the package but I think these are ok. Need to look them over carefully. First impression is that they look amazing and will be nice to see how the game turns out with these installed.

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LOL

I looked over the thread relatively quickly, but I need some advice. I recently got a game with a hardtop installed and the person just put the hardtop on over the star rollovers. The rollover holes in the hardtop are creating ball traps. What do you good folks suggest to be the best way to remedy this?

Post a pic.

Wow that is amazing.... Sorry you have to deal with that.

Who the hell put the hardtop on top of the star rollovers????

You have to out this person, lol

My initial thought is that you would drill out the center of the star rollover as large as you can without hitting the wood ledge the rollover sits on. Then use your Dremel with the drum sander on it to clean out the rest of the rollover and hardtop until everything is thin enough to break out ( or keep going as needed to grind out the rest of the rollover). The idea would be to leave as much hardtop as possible (black outline around the rollover) so you can finish cutting it flush with the new rollover you will have to install.

Ultimately I think how comfortable you are with your tools might change what exact tool you use, but I think the process won't change too much.

It's going to be a sucky job, because if you enlarge the hole, it might affect the ball travel, or become another ball trap.

I'd probably clamp a plexi template over the rollover and then use a bearing router bit to clear out the old insert

Or use the plexi template and a brand new forstner bit in a drill press, shaving away the hardtop and insert

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Yikes, I was hoping it was a Comet for your sake (only 1 rollover). I would try to break up one of the rollovers and see how much I can get out before cutting. They might be pretty brittle at this point. Would hit it (gently to start) with something about the size of the Hardtop hole and hopefully it splits like a log.

Careful with that, if you don’t soften the epoxy first you might pop up some ply. Not sure I’d try this if the hardtop is covering the seam.

Adding to the nightmare of that job, if you mess it up, they aren't selling FG hardtops anymore, so there's no backup plan. :/

Before I got my Xenon hardtop I watched a video of another guy installing it. He ran into an issue with the top rollover buttons not being able to go through because the hardtop holes were too small.

I got mine and have the same issue (amongst a few other issues). The holes have to be enlarged, which depending on your drilling experience might not end well. Just a heads up incase anyone is going to get a Xenon HT.

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Those holes are supposed to be too small.

Just like the Star Rollover holes.

You have to enlarge those holes to fit your particular playfield.

But don't drill (that could very well end in disaster).

Remove the buttons (there is a black spring clip on the back of them), then after you install the HT, you enlarge the HT holes with a dremel

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-hardtop-restoration-comet#post-4470140

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I see. Thanks! I think I have one of those bits. I was going to try a step-drill bit but I wasn't thrilled to do it...

That bit comes with the Dremel.

But if you have lost it, or worn it out, get one of those giant kits at harbor freight that have a zillion bits

Just to add about dealing with star rollovers with hardtops....it's right in the installation instructions and FAQ on Outside Edge's website:
________________________
Rollovers will need to be popped out, and have some small manual work done on the Hardtop hole after installation. You will then use a 2-part epoxy to glue them back in.
________________________

OE also has this video on their website showing how to enlarge the star rollover hole on the hardtop, after installation, and prior to putting in a new star rollover:

http://www.outsideedgeproducts.com/uploads/b/890360-583207973742842823/keith_hardtop_wizard_rollover_890.mp4

OK, tonight I routed 33 holes and slots in my HT, I can confirm your finding that there is a SH*T ton of debris that is expelled while routing.
So, I am now in your camp about routing before sticking by clamping the HT in place.
I used your recommended 3/16 in. routing bit in my Dremel with the routing cage. (no problems and clean edges)
Thanks for your post, I now believe real experience trumps over thinking.

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Nice! So the dremel does work? Was it battery or plug in?

Mine is a plug in 120VAC type.

Glad it worked out and your happy with it. Only other thing to add is to make sure you put a drop of oil on that bearing from time to time, and make sure it always spins freely.

FireBall Classic kicks ass!

That’s awesome! I’ve had one listed locally for awhile and may have to take it down so I can get this done on my game. Please report back once you’ve had time to look it over on your game.

Here is a short video of the router in action.
I was just roughing out the roll over holes prior to stick down. (there are 11 roll overs on this one)

Are they all maroon?

In reference to previous discussion about playfield coverings...

- Haggis Pinball offering 3 options for playfield -

1- Traditional Plywood/Clear Coat (@1:10 "additional cost because it's much more laborious").
2- Plywood/Acrylic with scratch resistant coating (standard).
3- Plywood/Acrylic without scratch resistant coating, but clear coated instead (for those who want clear coat feel).

** Link to additional videos... https://www.youtube.com/c/HaggisPinball/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

Just wrapped up my space shuttle hardtop. Needs a couple tweaks still, but I got to play a few games tonight!

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Looks great. What's going on with Hollywood Heat?

Thanks!

And that’s a great question on Hollywood Heat haha. Couple days ago it decided to quit mid game. Now it boots up but I can’t start a game, flippers and slings all still work even without a game going. Posted in the system 80b thread today to see if anyone has any thoughts. Hopefully someone does because I’m stumped at the moment.

Just started cleaning up an HH, a true barn find, mice nest and all that. Do you happen to have extra plastics or translite?

Restoring a High Speed and ordered my Hard top earlier this week. Will be my first hard top install and excited to get it.

I wanted to gauge if there were any consideration for Rollergames

I realize the licensing problems with creating an exact representation. I can't imagine it would be worth trying to strike a new agreement with Pepsi, or Thermos to include their brand on the finished product.

Still, could create fake brands that look the part.

More Classic Sterns (M-100 and M-200)!

Earlier this year, CPR was on the hunt for a NOS or near-perfect playfield, so it might be on their docket coming up. I don't know if that means they worked out the licensing issues at all. Not just the brands, but also I'm sure somebody still holds the rights to the Rollergames franchise in some form.

-Hans

I think I asked this before but I don't remember. Why are there no Gottlieb hardtops available? I know the Gottlieb family is still involved and things are licensed through a certain individual. Every one likes money it seems so why aren't they licenced and being made? Obviously they would make money. What's the hold up?

Many times, companies will give you a limited license at no cost, because it's advertising for them and a run of a few hundred would not be worth the accounting costs.

Bug guns, Hurricane and Nitro Ground Shaker?

Could be Twister...

That is a licensed theme, so I have to go with Whirlwind.