(Topic ID: 218168)

Official "HARDTOPS" thread

By Skypilot

5 years ago


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Topic poll

“If we produce a Hardtop for this game would yo purchase it?”

  • High Speed 174 votes
    13%
  • Firepower 128 votes
    10%
  • Silverball Mania 62 votes
    5%
  • Time Warp 30 votes
    2%
  • Mata Hari 55 votes
    4%
  • Blackout 94 votes
    7%
  • Tri-Zone 26 votes
    2%
  • Swords of Fury 74 votes
    6%
  • Space Station 79 votes
    6%
  • Fathom 70 votes
    5%
  • Pinbot 134 votes
    10%
  • Eight Ball Deluxe 124 votes
    9%
  • Strikes and Spares 56 votes
    4%
  • Kiss (Bally) 71 votes
    5%
  • Supersonic 51 votes
    4%
  • Grand Lizard 80 votes
    6%

(Multiple choice - 1308 votes by 788 Pinsiders)

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There are 3,334 posts in this topic. You are on page 48 of 67.
#2351 2 years ago

I was able to reuse the original inserts and no black marker was needed around the inserts outline.
So I think it all depends on the conditions of the inserts

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#2352 2 years ago
Quoted from A1k71:

Before, During and After pictures.
Totally satisfied with the result.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looks good, now get some new stickers on that ramp

#2353 2 years ago

Any chance of Capt. Fantastic?

#2354 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Looks good, now get some new stickers on that ramp

I'm looking for those stickers, but can't find them anywhere. I know eBay should be a good place, but no luck

#2356 2 years ago
Quoted from izzy:

Any chance of Capt. Fantastic?

If that is considered a 3rd party licensed game, don't expect it anytime soon.

#2357 2 years ago

Is this the Dremel trim bit people use for trimming the Hard Top? If not, what is recommended?

https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-561-Multipurpose-Cutting-Bit/dp/B00004UDIB/ref=sr_1_6

#2359 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

Is this the Dremel trim bit people use for trimming the Hard Top? If not, what is recommended?
amazon.com link »

I used this grinding one. It worked perfectly. The shape of the bit allows sinking in really clean then expanding the hole as needed.
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-84922-Silicon-Carbide-Grinding/dp/B00004UDKD/ref=asc_df_B00004UDKD/

#2360 2 years ago
Quoted from A1k71:

[quoted image]

Start from the bottom up, not the top down. That way if theres a slight off-set, its out of the eyes view.

#2361 2 years ago
Quoted from ibis:

Start from the bottom up, not the top down. That way if theres a slight off-set, its out of the eyes view.

This- also marker around the top inserts with a paint pen so even if it is off slightly you don't see the bare wood.

#2362 2 years ago
Quoted from ibis:

Start from the bottom up, not the top down. That way if there's a slight off-set, its out of the eyes view.

I didn't have to do that, the alignment was precisely done, put it firmly taped on the bottom part and result was perfect.
Also with gates, spinner, posts, metal rails guides etc. you need a perfect alignment on the top part too.
It just take few extra minutes to carefully put it on place.
At the end the 95-97% of all the holes where perfectly in place, just 2 or 3 needed to be enlarged a little bit

#2363 2 years ago
Quoted from A1k71:

I didn't have to do that, the alignment was precisely done, put it firmly taped on the bottom part and result was perfect.
Also with gates, spinner, posts, metal rails guides etc. you need a perfect alignment on the top part too.
It just take few extra minutes to carefully put it on place.
At the end the 95-97% of all the holes where perfectly in place, just 2 or 3 needed to be enlarged a little bit

You got lucky. That's not always the case as w my HS. More than 50% of the holes were about half way off and I had to relocate the buffer wires below the flippers and the flipper rest pins. I had wood showing on 8 inserts. It's coming together now but it has been a lot of work.

#2364 2 years ago

I just picked up a Supersonic. I'd definitely be in for a hardtop if it gets made.

#2365 2 years ago

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O4TFHJW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

Highly recommend this flush trim bit. You can basically just trace around holes like a router, it's awesome. You may still need to go free hand for the rollover inserts though.

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#2366 2 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

amazon.com link »
Highly recommend this flush trim bit. You can basically just trace around holes like a router, it's awesome. You may still need to go free hand for the rollover inserts though.
[quoted image]

Thats exactly what I am using.

#2367 2 years ago

How do you clean or what do you use to clean an Hardtop when needed??

#2368 2 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

amazon.com link »
Highly recommend this flush trim bit. You can basically just trace around holes like a router, it's awesome. You may still need to go free hand for the rollover inserts though.
[quoted image]

That bit is the shlt for real

Literally, mount the sink (or whatever), and just let the bit do the work.

Perfectly cut every time
IMG_20220213_164334.jpgIMG_20220213_164334.jpg

#2369 2 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

amazon.com link »
Highly recommend this flush trim bit. You can basically just trace around holes like a router, it's awesome. You may still need to go free hand for the rollover inserts though.
[quoted image]

What I've been sayin'.....its butter!

#2370 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That bit is the shlt for real
Literally, mount the sink (or whatever), and just let the bit do the work.
Perfectly cut every time
[quoted image]

exactly! The little dinky one i posted is meant to fit a dremel and probably would break with thick wood, but same basic principle. Forgot to mention, If you use that bit i posted make sure you use in combination with one of these to make sure you maintain the proper depth and keep the tool at 90 degrees to the playfield.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#2371 2 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

exactly! The little dinky one i posted is meant to fit a dremel and probably would break with thick wood, but same basic principle. Forgot to mention, If you use that bit i posted make sure you use in combination with one of these to make sure you maintain the proper depth and keep the tool at 90 degrees to the playfield.
[quoted image]

Even better is a trim router with a proper base plate

#2372 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Even better is a trim router with a proper base plate

agree with you for large areas but it probably won't work for tracing smaller holes. The small dremel bit is actually small enough to fit into a rollover switch slot.

#2373 2 years ago

(delete this post, made by accident)

#2374 2 years ago
Quoted from A1k71:

How do you clean or what do you use to clean an Hardtop when needed??

Damp paper towel, then wax with Blitz paste wax

#2375 2 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

agree with you for large areas but it probably won't work for tracing smaller holes. The small dremel bit is actually small enough to fit into a rollover switch slot.

hmm... just curious why youd rather a dremel than put a 1/8 collet in a trim router with the bit you posted?

#2376 2 years ago

To Clear-coat, or not to Clear-coat. That is the question.

Okay, so how many folks here are clearcoating their playfield prior to the Hardtop going on? I know that OE recommends this to ensure the strongest bond possible, but how many are really doing this. How many think its a waste of time?

I have been discussing this with a couple folks, but I want to see where the larger community stands on this. I belive that the clear-coat will ensure the strongest Hardtop bond into the future and beyond, but I cant base that on anything. It just seems reasonable that the adhesive will bite into a smooth non-porous surface better. Imagine a sticker being applied to wood, and to glass. Which one will stick the best?

I do NOT however, apply the clear-coat to to the plastic lamp inserts. I just prefer they be left bare as to avoid any unexpected weird crap from happening down the road. I just wont chance something like that, cause there would be no fixing it for sure.

#2377 2 years ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

To Clear-coat, or not to Clear-coat. That is the question.
Okay, so how many folks here are clearcoating their playfield prior to the Hardtop going on? I know that OE recommends this to ensure the strongest bond possible, but how many are really doing this. How many think its a waste of time?
I have been discussing this with a couple folks, but I want to see where the larger community stands on this. I belive that the clear-coat will ensure the strongest Hardtop bond into the future and beyond, but I cant base that on anything. It just seems reasonable that the adhesive will bite into a smooth non-porous surface better. Imagine a sticker being applied to wood, and to glass. Which one will stick the best?
I do NOT however, apply the clear-coat to to the plastic lamp inserts. I just prefer they be left bare as to avoid any unexpected weird crap from happening down the road. I just wont chance something like that, cause there would be no fixing it for sure.

IMO the question is less about whether or not to clear and whether or not to strip the entire playfield. OE says all you need to do is strip the art from the inserts because the hardtop has new art for them. My personal opinion is that leaving playfield art and potentially a LOT of contaminants (IE waxes and other chemicals) by not sanding is what offers up a higher chance of hardtop failure. Sand it down, polish the inserts, done. But then you get into the question of the shooter lane. Almost every shooter lane I've had on a game I'm hardtopping has been BEAT. You probably need to sand that down some, maybe stain, and then clear it. Other than that, clear for the whole playfield? Do whatever makes you happy. My first hardtop was a high speed and it was not cleared, I just polished inserts. It's stuck down fine and plays great. I've had others that were cleared and they've been fine. YMMV on all of this.

#2378 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

hmm... just curious why youd rather a dremel than put a 1/8 collet in a trim router with the bit you posted?

Oh I guess you could also do that. I honestly didn't even realize they made collets that small for routers. Seems kind of dangerous. Regardless, I'd probably still want to use a dremel just because it is smaller, lighter, and easier to control.

#2379 2 years ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

I know that OE recommends this to ensure the strongest bond possible, but how many are really doing this. How many think its a waste of time?

In my conversations with OE, they recommended clear coating as a measure to "seal" the playfield surface in an effort to contain any contaminants that could possibly interfere with the hardtop's bonding agent(s). I should note that this recommendation came about a year or so ago when OE was experiencing MANY hardtop failures in the field where customers experienced bubbling and lifting within days of installing the hardtop. I was one of those customers.

In the end, those hardtop failures, including mine (x2), were attributed to the OE printer vendor changing formulas for their adhesive WITHOUT notifying OE. It took upwards of 10 months for Bruce to nail down that root cause, and all during that time of the field failures he was pointing towards inadequate prep work on the playfield, prior to laying down the hardtop, as the cause for the bubbling and lifting. Bruce is stand-up guy....while it was a PITA on my side to rip off two hardtop and replace with new ones (with the CORRECT adhesive formula), he replaced them for free for me even before he got to the ultimate root cause of his printer vendor really screwing him.

So....like KSUWildcatFan said, do what makes you happy / feel safe. IMO, clearcoating is overkill. I did it once for one one hardtop (rattle can clear), but all the others I've done I just sanded away the artwork to get things nice and level and rid the playfield surface of years of wax and grime. And then wet sand the inserts to a nice polish.

11
#2380 2 years ago

2PAC clear dries faster than any rattle can poly, so since you have to do the Shooter Lane, Saucers, and other areas anyway, might as well seal the entire surface.

Sealing over the inserts also keeps them from popping up when the seasons change.

I've done 26 Hardtops, no callbacks yet

#2381 2 years ago

Thanks for chiming in vid.

I start by masking off all of my inserts with CNC pre-cut masks. Maybe I am overly paranoid, but I just don't want any clear on the inserts. Then I use Watco Clear Lacquer to seal the wooden PF panel. This product dries lightning fast, and you can put several coats on within a 30 minute period, and then its 95% dry in less than an hour. This is a very high quality professional product and a bit pricey, but you get what you pay for and you wont find it in the big-box stores.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZIZAQO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00

All in all it takes it adds maybe an additional hour to seal the PF. I also don't polish the inserts until the clear is applied, which ensures there is never any cleaning or polishing agents left in the woodgrain that could possibly affect the bond of the Hardtop.
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Damn vids that's a bunch of Hardtops.

15
#2382 2 years ago

F14 hardtop installed!

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#2383 2 years ago

Just another suggestion for a Hardtop... "The Games" (Gottlieb 1984). Seems like one of those games that always has a worn playfield.

19
#2384 2 years ago

Happy almost 1 year birthday to this Hardtop. 1000+ plays and still just about every bit as gorgeous as day one.

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#2385 2 years ago

How many cans of this Spraymax 2K do you need to do one playfield? One or two? I'm assuming 2 or 3 coats?
Also, is the handle worth the extra money?? See link for pic. https://www.amazon.com/Spraymax-Clear-Coat-Spray-Can/dp/B08CJYRY3D/ref=sr_1_2_sspa
Thanks

#2386 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

How many cans of this Spraymax 2K do you need to do one playfield? One or two? I'm assuming 2 or 3 coats?
Also, is the handle worth the extra money?? See link for pic. amazon.com link »
Thanks

I use at least at least 2 for hard tops. At least 4 for a regular playfield restore.

#2387 2 years ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

To Clear-coat, or not to Clear-coat. That is the question.
Okay, so how many folks here are clearcoating their playfield prior to the Hardtop going on? I know that OE recommends this to ensure the strongest bond possible, but how many are really doing this. How many think its a waste of time?
I have been discussing this with a couple folks, but I want to see where the larger community stands on this. I belive that the clear-coat will ensure the strongest Hardtop bond into the future and beyond, but I cant base that on anything. It just seems reasonable that the adhesive will bite into a smooth non-porous surface better. Imagine a sticker being applied to wood, and to glass. Which one will stick the best?
I do NOT however, apply the clear-coat to to the plastic lamp inserts. I just prefer they be left bare as to avoid any unexpected weird crap from happening down the road. I just wont chance something like that, cause there would be no fixing it for sure.

I'm probably the outlier ha. Did a Taxi a while back, just sanded everything off and put the hard top on with no clear. Works great, plays great, no issues. If I ever do another one I doubt I'd bother clearing it but YMMV.

#2388 2 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

I'm probably the outlier ha. Did a Taxi a while back, just sanded everything off and put the hard top on with no clear. Works great, plays great, no issues. If I ever do another one I doubt I'd bother clearing it but YMMV.

You're not an outlier, or at the very least we can be a group of outliers. Did a Mata Hari hardtop nearly 3 years ago, no clear, almost daily use since then, and it still looks and plays like new. Ditto for my EBD I did a couple years ago and a BK I did for a buddy last year.

#2389 2 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

You're not an outlier, or at the very least we can be a group of outliers. Did a Mata Hari hardtop nearly 3 years ago, no clear, almost daily use since then, and it still looks and plays like new. Ditto for my EBD I did a couple years ago and a BK I did for a buddy last year.

Yeah, the adhesive on the hardtop is STRONG. I guess I wouldn't say don't clear it if you really want to...but if its not sticking to your playfield I doubt the lack of clear is the real issue.

#2390 2 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

I'm probably the outlier ha. Did a Taxi a while back, just sanded everything off and put the hard top on with no clear. Works great, plays great, no issues. If I ever do another one I doubt I'd bother clearing it but YMMV.

I'm in the club too, recently did a Xenon, no clear. I'm very happy with the result. I think if you are going to forgo spraying clear, then it is in your best interest to fully sand the playfield, and not just around the inserts.

#2391 2 years ago
Quoted from eabundy:

I use at least at least 2 for hard tops. At least 4 for a regular playfield restore.

How many coats would two cans be?
Thanks!

#2392 2 years ago
Quoted from Zero_Hour:

I'm in the club too, recently did a Xenon, no clear. I'm very happy with the result. I think if you are going to forgo spraying clear, then it is in your best interest to fully sand the playfield, and not just around the inserts.

True, probably should be clear that that's what I did, took the whole pf down to bare wood.

#2393 2 years ago

Planning on taping and shooting a light coat of clear around the saucer and shooter lane since I sanded both, but other than outlining inserts (some wood showing on a few) I'm not clearing. I intend to do the same for the second Mata Hari also.

My non-cleared High Speed (again, clear on lane and outhole) continues to be just fine.

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#2394 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

How many coats would two cans be?
Thanks!

Between 4 and 6. First coat I do is very light. Then I gradually go heavier.

#2395 2 years ago

So, if going the non clearcoat route for playfield, the wet sanding on a bare sanded playfield is OK? What about water raising the grain?

#2396 2 years ago

Sorry, but there is no reason to apply multiple layers of ClearCoat or to sand everything off. The adhesive on the HT is very strong. It will adhere to the old playfield fine without coating and sanding down. You only need to sand down the inserts, removing any labeling, and any rough high spots. Apply CC as required onto sanded inserts and exposed wood to restore the shine.

If you insist on the overkill remember to let the CC outgas for several days before applying the HT.

#2397 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Sorry, but there is no reason to apply multiple layers of ClearCoat or to sand everything off.

Ya, I'm not planning to clear coat at this point as that 2K shit is too expensive and I'd rather not clear the inserts at all. Also not set up for this toxic spray! I'm just wondering if wet sanding on the playfield after exposing any wood is an issue to be concerned about?
Can't you just coat the exposed and sanded wood areas like shooter lane, out hole and saucer with 3 coats of brush on Triple Thick water based poly?

#2398 2 years ago
Quoted from eabundy:

Between 4 and 6. First coat I do is very light. Then I gradually go heavier.

Sounds like you're doing a playfield restoration rather than a Hard Top prep?

#2399 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

Ya, I'm not planning to clear coat at this point as that 2K shit is too expensive and I'd rather not clear the inserts at all. Also not set up for this toxic spray! I'm just wondering if wet sanding on the playfield after exposing any wood is an issue to be concerned about?
Can't you just coat the exposed and sanded wood areas like shooter lane, out hole and saucer with 3 coats of brush on Triple Thick water based poly?

I didn't wet sand anything. I just sanded the whole pf to make sure it was even since my pf was pretty rough. I didn't clear anything after that...just sanded it down normally with a hand sander and applied the hardtop.

#2400 2 years ago

Did you read the info on their site? I’d follow that or email them instead of random advice here.

5D52A441-1229-46CD-AD9D-F547FFAA7FCD.jpeg5D52A441-1229-46CD-AD9D-F547FFAA7FCD.jpeg

If you love the machine and want to do a great job, just follow the vid1900 guide where he hardtops a Comet (which I’m too lazy to look up for you).

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