I figured the main play field area would be designed to install under the existing Plexi, but that's just a guess. I don't really see a need for it on most machines since the ball has never touched that artwork in 40 years. Still the artwork may have faded over those 40 years so maybe there is a need.

+1 for Space Invaders please!

Then use 4SMD 'Non Ghosting' color matched LEDs. Or regular 2SMD LEDs if using a LED OCD board.
* I used a LED OCD and 4SMD color matched LEDs on my F-14 and it was beautiful!!

https://www.cometpinball.com/products/4smd-non-ghosting

https://www.cometpinball.com/products/2smd-bulbs
** the 2SMD are actually brighter than the 4 SMD https://www.cometpinball.com/pages/pinball-led-brightness-chart

http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=23

Gorgar Hard Top will be in next week. Any advice for Gorgar Hard Top veterans?
Thanks!

I meant "FROM" Hartop Veterans.

Doing my second BK hardtop now. Man these things are a terrific alternative to a playfield swap. Keep up the good work OE!

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I think when you look at the faded colors compared to the new HT you would choose to replace all three levels.
That is what I am doing anyway.

My next two HTs are officially started.

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Ha! That reminds me of a couple of years ago when I picked up two, non-working project Mata Hari's to build "one good one". Wound up hard topping and restoring one (which I still have) and getting the other one working well enough to sell it as a player's machine to fund the restoration of the other!

Man, I love this hobby....

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Both of these are kinda sad tbh. My friend had a pretty rough one he had bought for I think $200 but it was missing all boards, glass, and transformer/rectifier (ouch). He bought a brand new Alltek board set and BGResto glass and then located a transformer and intact rectifier. Then we found a $350 mostly broken down basketcase in Oklahoma that was otherwise complete. We were just going to do one and call it good but I figured we're not THAT far off on two, might as well do both. Both playfields worked just fine in the first cab I set up with his new boards which was a shock... time to knock these both out!

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Great job looks great!! GoldFinger movie poster, that is a great Bond Movie.

I was looking over the current survey at the top of the page. I would think Kiss would be a no-brainer given it's popularity, large production run, and poor condition many are found in. I assumed it was a licensing issue which is why it has not been produced to date. Nice to see you are considering. One thing about Kiss, I am learning is there is a large collectors segment that like it with a worn out playfield and faded cabinet paint. 'Battle scarred' is the rallying cry! Personally I do not see it. I watch a lot of car auction shows on cable and you don't see any rusty, ripped upholstery classic Mustangs go though. 'Battle scars' do not add value in my book.

The other omission is Space Invaders for similar reasons. Got to assume it's a licensing issue.

Kiss is a licensed theme. Don't expect it anytime soon.

Same with Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball. Damnit!!!

Damn!
The inside of that Mata Hari looks so nice you'll just have to hang the playfield on the wall so everyone can admire the cab interior!

Least of your worries with that title. Haha. I kid. It is a fair shooter.

Yeah its fairly boring. But the kids love it.

Went to the Phoenix "Zapcon" a few years ago and played a Taxi that had hardly any paint left on the play field. Only bits and pieces under the plastics. Kind of like a stained white wood. Smoothest damn game I ever played. Like, unbelievably, amazingly smooth. I get it.

Shawn

I mean it makes sense. Either cleared and smooth as silk, PETG smooth, or bare f'n wood.. any one of those will result in smooth gameplay so long as the game is otherwise well maintained. My assumption is that the vast majority of the games worn that badly are NOT from number of plays but rather from neglect of proper maintenance. But that's just my opinion and I'm still a relative noob (1/2019) to this hobby.

Saw my first hardtop in the wild (flash gordon). Quality was absolutely fantastic and the game played great - I forgot the hardtop was on after starting to play.

I'm sure this has been said in this thread already, but I am surprised no current pinball manufacturers are shipping with a hardtop. All of the incentives seem to be there.

Is there anyone from Outside Edge on here that I can contact for some Technical Support? I dont see a Tech support email on their website. I am trying to get a hold of Bruce or anyone else who can offer support. Please PM me if need be.

Thanks.

No help on the support front, but would you care to share what issue you are having?

I sanded my Flash Gordon playfield last night getting it ready for the Hardtop and it feels a little lumpy when I run my hand across it. Did anyone else have this happen, and will it be an issue when I install the Hardtop? Also how fine of sandpaper did you go to on the inserts? I plan on coating it with 2PAC before laying down the Hardtop.

When I prep playfields for hardtops, I use 220 with an orbital sander (and light pressure) to get the artwork off. Then follow up with block sanding at 400/600 to make sure the playfield is as level as possible.

The hardtop is rigid enough that if there are valleys in the playfield surface as a result of too-aggressive sanding that it would not be noticed. However, I wouldn't want any of those voids to be too big, so I'd recommend flattening them out as much as possible.

All of this is really overkill, anyway....you don't need to remove any artwork or do massive sanding. Just make sure your inserts are free of artwork and focus on those....eliminate the potential for jacking up your playfield surface with aggressive sanding.

2PAC is overkill too, IMO. I've done it with no clear and focusing on wet sanding only inserts (220/600/800/1200), I've done it laying down rattle can clear to "seal" the surface before putting down the hardtop, and I see no difference (and it's going on a couple of years for a few of my hardtop installs).

Thanks for the advise. This is my first Hardtop install. I know the 2PAC is overkill but I have two other playfields I am clearing anyway so I was just going to use it on this one too. I may block sand it a little tonight and see if that helps. It's not too bad, but not perfectly flat either. I probably got a little to aggressive with my sanding. I started with 150.

I want to request a custom Hardtop. I would like to have the following all deleted from my BK upper and lower PF hardtops:

-Light Bulb Holes (13 in LPF, 2 in UPF)
-Switch Slots/Holes (5 in LPF, 1 in UPF)
-Wire-form Holes (8 in LPF, 2 in UPF)
-Sling Kicker Slots/Holes (2 in LPF)
-Flipper alignment pin Holes (2 in LPF)

I would prefer to make all of the above holes myself because that will ensure a dead nuts perfect fit, and no "voids" like you would get from the standard hardtop. This will not be very hard at all because I have a 3/16" flush trim bit that will perfectly cut the holes once the HT is stuck. This will give the exact same visual appearance of a brand new playfield, but without all those "voids".

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I use a trim bit for all the material that is not lined up.

How I address the bare wood is, I paint the openings the corresponding color and seal it with clear before I lay the Hardtop down. This keeps it from attracting the eye to the obvious wood grain.

Totally Agree!! Would love to have a hardtop with no holes as you do see these when playing. Most folks don't see the wood grain on the Flipper alignment pins, but I see them all the time. Urks the shit out of me as the rest is gorgeous. Painting and clearcoating helps but just to go that little step would be nice. At least in the areas where folks see them.
Mike

I think a option to get the hardtop with zero holes would be good.

The holes down by the flipper tip pins bother me. And are totally unnecessary.

My Space Shuttle Hardtop arrived last fall with no holes for the alignment pins or the ball guides under the flippers. I had to drill holes for each, and as a result, no wood shows for these. It was also missing holes in a few other places that worked to the same advantage.

I want to order a Flash Gordon HT as soon as I can find out where. I am hoping that I can get it with these holes not drilled. Would make me so happy.
Mike

You need to email Outside Edge in order to order a FG Hardtop.

I have already planted that seed with Bruce.

I would think alignment would be that much more difficult without some kind of reference from the bottom to the top of the playfield. The process is to make sure the inserts are aligned at the bottom the best, working your way up to the top, when lining the HT onto the original PF.

I haven't been following this thread lately but would like to post about my HS HT job. This started with 2 HS games. I bought a nice game in 2010, nice cab and has been solid for years board wise. I swapped in a NOS cleared PF this passed summer. About 6 years ago I bought another HS for a great price but PF was trashed and dirty, cab so so. When I learned of the HT I decided this game would be a good candidate.

I did the usual prep for the HT, sanded pf to bare wood. Cleared with Spray max 2K clear. When checking the HT for fitment I was a little discouraged as some of the key points did not line up. The worst part was at the buffer wires and flipper rest pins. If I did line them up, the rest of the HT was off even more. I sent it back to OE to have it checked to see if it was miss-punched but it wasn't and they sent it back to me.

My solution was to fill the holes for the buffers and rest pins, paint black over them and drill new holes to re-locate them. Many of the inserts were off as well. I think mainly because this game is an early one, within the first 500 or so. I figured there are many variations from then to more recent games.

Opening the holes for the star roll-overs is a job that can't be rushed. With advice from a guy that has done many of these, I used a small Dremel drum sander attachment and went slow until I got to the edges of the wood. He said to go a tad larger so that the HT doesn't pop or buckle around the insert.

Mostly all the holes were about half way off. This is easy to correct with patients and the right tools. In my Dremel bit hoard I found one spiral type but that would cut the HT without tearing it up. I don't know what the bit is called or where I got it.

I have made nice progress in the last few weekends.

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For any of y'all spending a lot of quality time with a Dremel in your hand, I HIGHLY recommend getting the flex shaft attachment. You will love it!
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-Flex-Shaft-Attachment-225-02/317719721?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-CM-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-NA-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys&cm_mmc=Shopping-CM-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-NA-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys-71700000042813121-58700005464629311-92700067963002094&gclid=CjwKCAiA6seQBhAfEiwAvPqu181p7eOt2Clxo99kFudjMZSp9n3xphw9cFmMEyMUXKkadlobr6nM6hoCUBEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Shawn

It's funny because mine came with it but I never tried it out. BTW the newer version of the 400 which is now the 4000 feels like junk compared to the old one. Not as smooth and the motor speed is all over the place when set under 15k rpm. It just sounds cheap and might die any second.

I hung mine from the ceiling over the work bench. It's always ready to go.

This is the rotary tool for anything related to Hardtop of other restoration:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08VDPRK28/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

The HUGE benefit of this rotary tool is it has very high torque which means you can use it at lower speeds without the motor bogging down like a typical hand-held tool. This tool makes very quick work of polishing back inserts after sanding. Its also a very good price, and is good quality.

I dont really like typical hand-held units because you have to keep it revved high, and trying to maintain a lower RPM is difficult, and this could lead to unexpected results.

This is also an absolute must have, and it works perfectly with the rotary tool I mentioned above. This makes very easy - no risk of damaging work of polishing the inserts.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HT1QC2C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

Why use a rotary tool? Go to harbor freight and get a cheap trim-bit router, a trim bit at HD or Lowes, and go to town on every hole without worry? They use them on every piece of counter or cabinet laminate on the planet. Same principal.

Pilot router bit will trim through anything

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Okay, spare F14 got new inserts and sanded down for the hardtop install. Few little things to do yet.

What techniques are folks doing to line up the hardtop for the install?

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That was what I was thinking, tape down half, then peel the backing halfway, apply the half, then untape, lift the other half and peel and apply. Did you primarily use the flipper holes as your alignment?

This is a pic of my hardtop right before I peeled the backing and put it down for good.
My technique was to align using the inserts as guides. I used a flashlight above and below insets to check for bare wood, or overhang. The two clamps in the picture were all I used to secure the hardtop once I had it aligned, just before adhering it to the playfield.
The one thing I definitely recommend is a second set of hands. Someone holding the hardtop off the playfield while the backing is removed, makes things go quick and smoothly. I removed close to half the backing, laid it down, then removed the clamps, lifted and removed remaining backing, and finished sticking it to the playfield.

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Exactly how I do it, too.

Thanks for all your input everyone! I'm hoping to install this weekend

Me too

If there is any wood showing around inserts you can outline the insert with a black Sharpie or paint before dropping the HT down. If using paint put it on thin.

Before, During and After pictures.
Totally satisfied with the result.

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