Yeah, I'm not a huge cab condition collector either. I don't mind a nick or two here and there, some flaws and whatnot. Most of my games have them, after all...but my F14 has chunks out of it and looks awful in those spots -- IMO -- and I can see it even with it tucked in-between T2 and Taxi. It could probably be doctored up enough with some filler and black paint (lucky a lot of these chunks are on the edges which just so happen to be..black). I care about cab condition on exactly one of my games: Eight Ball Deluxe. And that's because that's the only pin I am currently doing and the only pin I plan to do "everything" on. Hardtop (new PF is just too much for me, or my skillset), new Shay plastics & BG, pinball pimp decals with assistance from a pro, jet black gloss powdercoated everything..etc. I'll go over the top with it because to me it's a sound investment and at the end of the day, if things really got rough, I wouldn't be forced to sell it for 30% of what I paid to get it there. I can't justify it on most others. JMO. We all have our opinions and I'm not preaching as though any of this is 'fact'. All just my opnion, and that's the opinion of someone who's been involved in pinball for....15 months. *shrug*

Agreed. Some of those early SS Williams games have pretty uninspiring cabinet art anyway. Blackout and Firepower would be two. I thought about ordering stencils and doing my Blackout. I feel like I'd be more inclined to order stencils for some other space themed game with better cabinet art if I were going down that path.

I couldn't have cared less about cab condition when I started out, and GENERALLY SPEAKING I still don't (to a point) but as things have gotten nicer in my row it stands out more and more, and when I'm already deep into a game it's just one more thing to think about when I'm looking at throwing more money at it. I know some people couldn't give a rat's ass less about being upside down in a game, but that's just not how I've had to facilitate collecting what I have.

I know we're all different and we have our own opinions as well as our own criteria for how we approach this hobby given our unique limitations. I'm certainly not trying to change anyone's mind over my own personal opinion.

And I said no F-14 in jest, of course I want one for F-14.. it'll play fast as HELL with one and this is a perfect title for it imo. And I'll almost certainly do one, because I'm a glutton for punishment... But also because I adore the product (wouldn't have hardtops on 3 of my 8 pins otherwise).

For me, I also have to consider the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). She could care less what a pin looks like if I have it in the garage, but if I want to bring a pin into our family rec room / home theater room (where I currently have 7), the cab can't look like a beater. Nicks or scratches here and there are fine, but legs/coin doors can't be rusty, paint/decals can't be peeling or significantly fading, and no big cab holes/gouges or areas of de-lamination.

It's a small price to pay for her actually allowing me to grow my hobby and bring pins into the house. Plus, it forces me to expand my skill set into areas where I previously had little to no experience (working with wood and painting/stenciling).

You hit the nail on the head. Wife determination means a lot when you're trying to get her to buy in to you spending thousands of dollars on a hobby. I have to be in this for a price I could get back out of it if things got bad, otherwise it creates a ripple effect that I just don't want to deal with. So I scratch and claw at trying to stay in the black (cost vs. "value") on what I have. That generally means I let games find me rather than me finding specific games, but it's worked out well thus far. I love what I have.

FWIW, wife said World Cup Soccer can not, ever, leave. So there's that. I'm good with that one.

No hardtop for Bally Star Trek in the works?

Fortunately, or unfortunately, this is no longer an issue for me...

CPR has the new playfield, but it’s $$$.

Night Rider!!

Well I finally managed to get BK Finished for the most part. Just a few minor things to get done like new rubbers "still deciding on if i want to go with different colors on upper and lower " and looking for a new plastics set
Want to thank everyone for all the tips and answers to my questions about the install. For the most part everything went quite well and and alignment was great.
The only issue i ran into was the size of the holes for the anti rebound bars below the flippers they are quite large so i did some touch up to try to match the paint and i think it looks pretty good

Thanks
Bruce

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Looks really nice! I picked up a Black Knight hardtop a few weeks ago for a fall/winter project. What kind of issues, if any, did you have with getting the ramps level with the playfield after the hardtop went in? Did you have to make any adjustments like in Cary Hardy's BK hardtop install video?

Thanks for the feedback. The ramps did need shimmed up a little but no big issue i just used some heavy white cover stock paper to make a shim that fit the opening worked out pretty well. As in the video i sanded all the artwork off both play fields and polished the jewels to 3000 grit. I also applied some black paint around all the jewels to allow for any alignment error around the openings on the hardtop then clear them. After a week of cure time i started the reassembly.
I also replaced the original rails with custom Padauk rails.I think the orange / red color of padauk looks awesome on BK.

I found it worked better for me anyway to align the jewels rather then trying to make all the screw holes and switches line up. You can trim the holes to fit you cant fix Jewel alignment errors For the most part Everything aligned very well i only need to trim a few switch holes. you will of course need to readjust all the switches to accommodate for the Hardtop thickness but that's pretty easy .
And ..... Check , check and recheck that the play field and the hardtop are clean and free of anything before applying the Hardtop

Hope your project goes well.

Hope that helps

Bruce

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What kind of paint did you use? I did a Mata Hari hardtop last year - all inserts lined up great so I didn't need to paint any outlines (did need to widen out several holes with a Dremel). I'm doing an Eight Ball Deluxe hard top now - after taking off all artwork down to bare wood and polishing the inserts (I went to 2000), I put on a few light coats of rattle can clear last weekend so it should be ok by now. My test alignment this morning shows all inserts lining up great except for one that's a little off (the Eight Ball). Was going to paint just that one edge area around the 8-ball tonight using Liquitex Black Gesso (see picture), then decide if I'm going to put down the hardtop tomorrow or add a little clear over that really small area of new paint and wait to lay down the hardtop next weekend.

I used that Liquitex Black Gesso to repaint the top saucer of my Mata Hari black and that's held up well but it's not under the hardtop for me to gauge how that paint will behave under the EBD hardtop. So what did you use to paint your insert outlines? Thanx....

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Createx Airbrush Opaque,
Worked great heat set and then cleared with X2 gloss

A friend gave me a bunch of Molotow paint markers and some round plastic stencils. I used those and a ruler to outline some of the round inserts, the arrows and the hot dogs on my Space Shuttle. And I used the white to fill in around the rollovers at the top.

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Worked really well for me. And yes, I added my initials for shits and giggles...

Welcome to the club! My choice and couldn't be happier.

Sign me up for F14!

My nasty F-14 is gone. So. I'm back to team 'F-14 please', I'll go buy a beat to hell one and do it.

F-14! F-14! F-14!

Are you or anyone else adding glue to your inserts to ensure that they don't move or come loose later? My SOF is torn down completely, top side, fully populated on back but ready for sanding. Not sure how to best apply glue and when as topside application could affect paint or clear if I need to apply any. What are others doing?

I swapped out a number of the inserts on my space shuttle, small amount of two-part epoxy applied directly to the sides of the insert holes is the way to go. Apply from the underside to avoid getting any excess glues on to the Playfield . Sand the side of the insert prior to applying the glue so that it has something to bite to before inserting.

I was only concerned with inserts that felt really loose or were above the top level of the playfield.

I only had to do the hot dog inserts in Space Shuttle but I had quite a few to do on Black Knight. I pushed them out of the playfield and cleaned up the edges of the inserts and the hole in the playfield to get the mastic out or whatever they used originally. I put a bit of two-part epoxy in the playfield hole and then pushed the inserts back in. I rough sanded the edges of the inserts so they had something for the epoxy to grab.

I've read that others have just applied some Crazy Glue or Gorilla glue from the bottom side to make sure nothing moved. I don't think they will ever be an issue if they are level with or below the top of the playfield. The hardtop material is pretty stiff and the adhesive around the inserts will probably prevent the insert from ever pushing the hardtop up. Unless of course someone physically pushed it up from the bottom...

Already have a Blackout Hardtop.
Bought this Blackout.
To Hardtop or not to Hardtop? Lol
Its in such good shape i dont know if i want to waste the Hardtop on this one. Inserts are cupped and raised in areas but overall its got little to no wear

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Wow, looks really nice except for the cupped inserts. I'd probably throw a clear protector on there so it plays smooth and call it a day!

Take care of the inserts, wax it up, and play it!

What is the skill level necessary in applying this to a playfield?
Am I understanding correctly that once a hardtop for a specific machine is created, then it is virtually in stock indefinitely (just needs to be printed, and remains in the catalog of games available)? I would like to get the Pin-Bot as soon as I save up enough allowance money (aka when the wife says it's ok).
Thanks!

Watch some of the YouTube tutorials and see if you feel comfortable doing

I pulled it off.. So I'm fairly convinced that just about anyone can do it...

Yep, just found those. YouTube will save the world. Thanks!

Check out this bride of pinbot Club thread, a good way to touch base with people that have already installed the hardtop .
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-clubnon-20

Thanks! Super helpful

Working on my second Hardtop title with Outside Edge (Blackout)... Looks like they just let that cat out the bag on that title.. (Don’t rush the process, still couple/few/several weeks away)
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(Gorgar)

Just started the work to put a Hardtop on my Grand Lizard. Quality of the art on the HT looks excellent. Cut holes in the HT looks excellent. Overall alignment and fit of of the HT on the playfield looks very very good so far.

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Is Laser Cue in the pipeline at all?

Sign me up for a Time Warp! I just need to find a decent backglass.

How about a new CPR? https://classicplayfields.com/shop/pinball-backglasses/timewarp-glass/

Is it normal to see the printer lines on the hardtop? I’m not to happy about the print quality.

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I have 3 (BK, HS, BO) And 2 of my friend have them as well (FG, FP). None have this problem.
My High Speed has yellows and greys that im pretty unhappy with and its missing the liscense plate entirely for some reason. I might not use it now. (Still no print lines though)
Black Knight looks great and i cant wait to apply it.
Blackout is also very playfield accurate. I looked extra close at this one just now as it has lots of black space like your space shuttle but my blacks are clean.
My friends Flash Gordon has some bubbling in the upper playfield but i chalk that up to it being an early run and possible an entirely different material composition.
Firepower seemed really nice as well but he has only sent me pics. I have yet to see it in person.
Id contact outside edge as this doesnt look like the quality they unusually put out (which is mostly pretty stellar)

Is that an image after the protective plastic film has been pulled off the top?

Yes, that is what it looks like with the film removed. It looks terrible.

Yikes, I agree, that looks a little off. I know of at least 10 others from the shuttle Club ,myself included,that haven't had those kind of issues with the hardtop at all. I would contact outsideedge, I'm sure they will do right by you. I've always wondered how much of a pain in the butt it would be to remove that if I had to, maybe you can let us know. May have to fire up the heat gun and find that good putty knife.

Ive done two HT's and not had this issue. You may have a early print on a specific run of that title.

I've had to re-do one. It's not pretty.

That's why I wondered, I could only imagine. Probably be like,if a dumpster fire and a trainwreck had a baby.

Still hoping for Solar Fire!

Hi All,
We were made aware of Jenniebear's issue last evening. It looks like a bad unit got shipped, for sure. We are replacing this for her at not charge.

To address removal, I would stop short of dumpster fire/trainwreck level(funny though!)... but it does take time to remove residue and prep for reinstall.

To give context to needs for replacement..... I am aware of a total of around 15 units total that have had either install errors, and yes... a few issues on our end. We have in each and every instance taken care of the customer though. At least 3 of the units that failed were all instances where the playfield was not sealed with a clear prior to install. We have stepped up our instructions included in the package to emphasize our suggestions for sealing the wood.

Now, for the SS issue at hand?? A bad product left our dock. We will take care of this right away. We will not claim to be free of mistakes... but when thy do happen, we do our best to make it right.

Sorry about that Jenniebear!

This is new news for me. What issues are to be expected for the those of us who installed a hardtop prior to this change?

Probably nothing... However, (as stated above) the few issues we have had with lifting were all fields that were not clear coated. The point being, let's take the few failures we have seen and try to eliminate those moving forward by even more strongly suggesting all fields be sealed and gassed out prior to install. I too have installed Hardtops with no clear coat with no issue.... that said, the few we have seen were unanimously all un sealed.

Basically, you have a 25-45 year old piece of wood with years and years of contaminates and lord only knows how many products applied to it for cleaning. We feel that a more fail safe way to go it to basically seal those out of the equation for the new adhesive to have a pristine surface that won't breathe" or potentially leach whatever your sanding did not reach deep in the wood.

This is what our instructions have been updated to state.

That makes sense but it's a bummer -- at least for me one of the appealing things about the hardtop was that I didn't have to clearcoat the playfield.

Out of curiosity, could you share what the actual recommendation is? Is it an easy brush on of Polyurethane or does it require a two-component clear like SprayMax 2k? Thanks!