And sometimes, not having the Hardtop as soon as you would have wanted works in your favor.

I had picked up a Blackout that was a great candidate for a Hardtop, and earlier indications were that is wasn't going to be all that long before we'd see them. I'd have gotten one ASAP. Gave me the chance to put in a lot of time playing it which made me realize it was never going to be a keeper for me.

Moved it along for a decent price and saved myself some $$ and effort.

I coming to this party late and I'm sure this question has been asked somewhere in this thread already, so please excuse. I'm considering getting one for my Future Spa. As with most older games, most of my inserts have cupping issues, during the prep work, do you have to level them before you put down the hardtop?

I see a lot of people mentioning F14 - But don't see it in the poll. Has there ever been any indication that F14 will ever be made, since there are repro playfields available?

My problem is that my F14 is just in too bad shape for a new playfield. It's just not economically viable. But a Hardtop could be a great solution.

yatch11 no need to deal with cupping inserts. Now, raised inserts are a different story.

The long-term verdict is still out on this. The hardtop is sturdy enough that it will be flat even over cupped inserts. So most say you don't need to level them. But what might happen over time? With 10 or 20 years of heat cycles and continual gravity, it's possible that the hardtop might start to depress down into the cupped insert. Also, there's an air gap that is either going to be expanding/contracting based on temperature, or possibly breathing (pulling in air and therefore moisture from under the playfield) if there is any tiny gap around the edge of the insert. The latter could cause the insert to start to look cloudy.

Thanks, appreciate it

Good info to think about, thanks a lot

You could even replace the cupped inserts with new ones. Though, you need to measure to get the correct size as they are not matched up with the games, but at least they are available to purchase.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=inserts

Have to sand the playfield anyhow. I'd think that would mostly resolve cupped inserts.

I wouldn’t worry much about the gap, even perfectly flat inserts are going to have a slight gap since there no adhesive on the inserts.

I am debating replacing inserts that have fractures in them but new ones would probably eventually show some anyway.

I had the same ideas as well. It probably wouldn't get it totally smoothed out but would definitely help it though. Unfortunately, I have to put this playfield project on hold. It has since crapped the bed on me and have to figure out this electrical issue I'm having, ugh. lol

Just think out loud. Is there any way of filling the cupped inserts with some kind of clear resin? If that were possible, they would sand flat perfect to the playfield. Might be worth investigating.

I think your missing the reason for hardtoping a game . It’s a simple permanent solution to playfield repair . No need to complicate things .

You can fill the cupped insert with clear or even self-leveling supper glue.

You still want it to look nice down the road. I wouldn't trust putting a hardtop on a game with cupped inserts. It might be sturdy but I'm 99% sure it will depress over time. If someone already has the playfield this far stripped down why not take a little extra time to either replace the inserts or fill and level them? Do it right the first time, not the second time.

It's also irreversible by design, so if your inserts aren't up to snuff, there's nothing that can be done short of replacing the entire playfield. It's worthy of consideration.

I have an EK hardtop to be installed (eventually), and having handled this thing I can't imagine it "sagging" into a cupped insert, even over time.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This ^^^

Some serious overthinking going on here. The hardtop is a flat hard sheet of PETG plastic. Permanently secured & lies flat. It is not going to "sag" or "sink" in spots over cupped inserts. It's the least of your worries. The bigger concern is getting debris trapped over an insert during the install, having it misaligned after its secured, or looking at cracked inserts that you were too lazy to replace before installing the hardtop.

A hardtop is a simple restoration alternative for those of us who don't want (or have the skills) to go through the laborious process of doing an entire playfield swap & difficult touchups, clear coating or repairs to an original playfield.

I dont think I am missing the reason at all. I just installed a BK HT and the product is phenominal. Of course Idid not have to deal with sunken inserts.

So are you certain there would not be any moisture or fogging with that slight air gap from a sunken insert, or maybe a slightly unatural visual or lighting effect due to the air gap?

I am not convinced that this could happen at all. I dont believe that the HT would sag or anything like that. Its just worth considering ahead of time because if there is a weird issue, the HT aint coming up in order to address it.

I doubt I will ever be doing an old PF with sunken inserts. But if there were a sure fire way to level them out the right way. I would do it in a heartbeat as to avoid any what-ifs down the road.

The other thing I would be concerned with down the road is with even the slightest give in that area the hardtop could eventually wear the same spot most playfields wear from sunken or cupped insets. Or leave a depression at the edge of the insert. Probably won’t happen on a game being played in the home but would think it’s possible. Man I just can’t see doing all the work to install one of these and not address a minor issue.

You can get a pretty good preview by laying the hardtop on your playfield. If it looks fine with the cupped inserts and you don't want to overthink things, then just install it.

I decided to replace most inserts on my firepower and am glad I did so. Replacing them is pretty low risk as you don't have to worry about damaging the art -- you will sand everything anyways and the hardtop replaces all the art. I documented my installation here

If this thread is any indication, SoF is next.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/outside-edge-announces-next-5-hardtop-titles-

The grand lizard one is really going to make an impact. So many of these have trashed playfields

Finished my High Speed, including Freeplay40 clear ramp.
It looks great!
Fit was very, very good. Dremelling out the star rollover holes was nerve wracking, but very do-able.
Just need to fine tune a few switches and play a few games.

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Comet certainly looks beautiful with a hard top.
IMG_20200114_191620 (resized).jpg

Hard to go wrong with a mirror-like finish, looks amazing!

Mine definitely does. Can't wait for that hardtop to come out.

Man, that looks great.

Looks awesome!!!

Firepower II. All the ones I've seen have horrible wear including mine. Must have been the paint or process on them. Even though the number of machines made is below 10k, a BUNCH of them need help

I also see a lot of people mentioning F14 - but since repro fields are available.

Of course I hope that something will come, but as it looks so far nothing is planned for the F14.

Doing hardtop install today. Just noticed a couple things...

There’s no adhesive on the thin strip in the shooter lane. Is this a change on newly manufactured hardtops? Because all the videos I’ve seen have adhesive there. The wood side rails will keep it secured I guess, but I’d be happier if the adhesive was there.

Also noticed that the shoot lane cutout is shorter and the actual groove. I was expecting some difference, but I wasn’t expecting the cutout to be half the length of the grove. Looks funny to me.

Are these normal issues?

A601E721-AF31-42DB-ABF6-A16C407B22FC (resized).jpeg

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No need for adhesive there. It goes completely under the rail.

Is your groove extra super long?

It must be longer than usual. I could cut the plactic but it would probably come out looking like garbage

The prototype wasn't like that. You're shooter groove must be longer. (?)

Your shooter lane looks extra deep too like someone routed or sanded it out for a previous resto attempt.

Not likely with this particular game's history. Long shooter groove probably just a manufacturing variance. Who knows. I'm not worried about it. Debated cutting the plastic, but one slip of the knife could have made look even worse. Then I'd be obsessing that I didn't cut the plastic correctly. I just installed the hardtop as is.

The fact there was no adhesive on the thin strip is an advantage now. If dirty gets under the groove, the side rail can be unscrewed (no more staples), and that flap can be easily lifted, blasted away with airhose underneath & wiped with novus q-tip.

That said the playfield looks fantastic now. Very thrilling pulling off the protective sheet & seeing the vibrant colors/shine for the first time. Very satisfied with this product

Outside Edge shared this on Facebook - not sure why they haven't here yet. Check out what is next....

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Up for sale now? Or just the announcement? If the later they did tell us pinbot was next.

Swords of Fury playfield in the background.

Ok missed that from the previous post.

"Coming soon to a Pinbot near you! Just working on color and alignment. Won’t be long and we will be swinging a sword toward our next title."

I'd say Swords of Fury might be next...

Beauty!

I need two of the SoF please (yes I will watch for the shipping availability but I need 2)

Woo hoo! Just got my order in!

I sold my Pinbot too soon.

= you saved yourself some work.