For enlarging holes I had good results with the larger conical burring tip in this set.
Tonsiki 20pcs Tungsten Carbide... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074QL5T71
5ECCE6E2-07C1-4823-AF44-63B350231FD1 (resized).jpeg
So I think this might be the weekend I finally get the Mata Hari hardtop installed. It's been almost a week since I cleared the inserts and today I took off the masking. One thing that hadn't occurred to me.....the areas that got cleared now have this ever-so-slight ridge between its surface and the uncleared surface that was masked off (see picture). Does this need to be sanded down prior to putting on the hardtop? If so, what grit sandpaper and how much do I take off?
The ridge is so slight, I'm wondering if it would even matter. Pay no attention to the black outline around the insert - that was an experiment gone bad, and with the test fit of the hardtop the inserts look perfect.
Insert and Clear 2.jpgQuoted from Mathazar:So I think this might be the weekend I finally get the Mata Hari hardtop installed. It's been almost a week since I cleared the inserts and today I took off the masking. One thing that hadn't occurred to me.....the areas that got cleared now have this ever-so-slight ridge between its surface and the uncleared surface that was masked off (see picture). Does this need to be sanded down prior to putting on the hardtop? If so, what grit sandpaper and how much do I take off?
The ridge is so slight, I'm wondering if it would even matter. Pay no attention to the black outline around the insert - that was an experiment gone bad, and with the test fit of the hardtop the inserts look perfect.[quoted image]
Why are you spending your time masking off your playfield.Just shoot clear on the whole area.
Quoted from Skypilot:Why are you spending your time masking off your playfield.Just shoot clear on the whole area.
I tried not to over think this and I did do the whole playfield at first. This is my first experience with clear (rattle can). The first attempt was the whole playfield and that didn't turn out well - something was breaking up the chemical bond in so many areas (except around the inserts) and I was left with cracking, peeling, and the like. I was spraying at 72F and had the can well shook/mixed, and the first coat was very, very thin so I figured it was something on the playfield causing this. I sanded all that off and started over and tried again in a couple test spots after degreasing, rubbing with naphtha, and trying really hard to get whatever wax or silicone or whatever is in this playfield out so that it could be cleared properly (at least as properly as I can with a rattle can). The test spots came out just like the first time - bad. Sanded that clear attempt off in a few minutes since it was just a small test area, then kept in mind the instructions that came with the hardtop to either wet sand the inserts or clear them to make them shiny. It took about 10 minutes to mask off the non-insert areas that kept failing and so I cleared just the inserts. No cracking/peeling and it came out ok.
And now here I am with my ridge question. It's very slight....does that need to get sanded down or would be ok to lay the hardtop down as-is?
Quoted from cjchand:Can anyone here speak to how their game played before and after? I’m super eager for the HS Hardtop to be released, but my playfield isn’t totally trashed, either. So, doing what I do best: overthink things... despite the post immediately above
I just put one on my Flash Gordon last weekend. It looks AMAZING and plays great. The only issue I'm having is that I still need to do a lot of adjustments due to the added height of the hardtop. I had to raise two of the ramps so the ball wouldn't get stuck at the lower spinners (I used some thin poster board screwed in on each end of the ramps to add a bit of height). If you have star rollovers, be REALLY careful to make them level with the hardtop, because mine settled after install and the ball gets stuck on them. I even had a ball get stuck on an inlane rollover, but a sharp nudge dislodged it. I'm glad I did the hardtop because my playfield was trashed, but you have to be prepared for some adjustments. A new playfield would be the ideal option, but you're looking at much more money and a hell of a lot more work. I still think it's a great product, and I'm thrilled they make it for Frontier, because I desperately want a Frontier and every one I've seen has a blown-out playfield.
One thing I'll add is that I've seen so many folks talking about sanding and clearing the entire playfield. I can understand that to a degree if you're an absolute perfectionist, but all I did was sand the area around the inserts and I got great results. There are a few areas on my Flash Gordon where the pre-cut holes on the hardtop are large enough that you can see a bit of the original playfield underneath, and personally, I'd rather see the original paint than sanded, cleared wood. To each their own, but you don't have a ton of free time on your hands and you want to get back to playing, I think you can get awesome results just by sanding the inserts and rubbing a little Novus 2 into them before installing the hardtop.
The old playfield just needs to be smooth. I wouldn't think the edge of a layer of clear would matter at all. I just use a rattle can to shoot the inserts so they are glossy.
Quoted from BRW84:One thing I'll add is that I've seen so many folks talking about sanding and clearing the entire playfield. I can understand that to a degree if you're an absolute perfectionist, but all I did was sand the area around the inserts and I got great results. There are a few areas on my Flash Gordon where the pre-cut holes on the hardtop are large enough that you can see a bit of the original playfield underneath, and personally, I'd rather see the original paint than sanded, cleared wood. To each their own, but you don't have a ton of free time on your hands and you want to get back to playing, I think you can get awesome results just by sanding the inserts and rubbing a little Novus 2 into them before installing the hardtop.
Exactly how I did my Space Shuttle. Looks very nice.
Anyone have any issues with a space shuttle hardtop and a repro ramp?
I plan on doing one very shortly, but I've read the repro ramp needs routing on an original playfield due to the ramp thickness (I ran into this on taxi a while back), so shall I assume now the hardtop and the original need to be routed?
Quoted from eabundy:Got my Firepower Hardtop Installed.
That thing is beautiful!! Awesome job!
Quoted from jcar302:Anyone have any issues with a space shuttle hardtop and a repro ramp?
If I could find a repro ramp I would share my experience...
Quoted from heni1977:We going to see a F-14 any time soon? I have one empty PF sitting and waiting.
Same here but insert 'SoF'. I think that a lot of people are waiting.
Not too unlike cannabis here in Canada. Now legal but apparently big challenges with availability.
How goes the High Speed Testing Sky Pilot got my inserts all cleared and ready Thanks for working on it!
Finally hit the re-assembly phase of my Mata Hari install. Got the frame, apron area, and rebuilt pop bumpers back in so far this week along with new flipper assemblies. Targeting having this playable over the weekend after rebuilding the slings and drop targets and finishing off the new posts and plastics.
IMG_6507.jpgQuoted from darcangeloel:How goes the High Speed Testing Sky Pilot got my inserts all cleared and ready Thanks for working on it!
A few small changes we made. Nothing that needed to be refitted,so it should be in production in the next few weeks.
Quoted from eabundy:Got my Firepower Hardtop Installed. Mata Hari on deck. I should have it in the Allentown Free Play area next month, along with Mata Hari. Also working on Flash Gordon and Space Shuttle. Those will be going to Pintastic.
[quoted image]
I like the red t-molding on the head. Looks good. Nice job!
Quoted from Mathazar:re-assembly phase of my Mata Hari install
Looks awesome. That game is a genuine masterpiece .
What else is in the works, still no real/useful updates. They're sitting on a gold mine here but seems as though things have stalled.
Quoted from dnaman:What else is in the works, still no real/useful updates. They're sitting on a gold mine here but seems as though things have stalled.
Or they’re like 90% of all other people that produce pinball parts/mods and it’s not their primary job.
Quoted from meSz:Or they’re like 90% of all other people that produce pinball parts/mods and it’s not their primary job.
Yeah, would be nice to get a little tid bit here and there though. Getting closer to just buying a new PF
Can someone tell me what the purpose of the nails are that are in the slingshot areas of some early Bally's (like the Mata Hari I put a hardtop in)? Is it just for support of the sling plastic piece or is there some sort of other functionality that it's suppose to provide? The hardtop holes don't align with where the nails were on the playfield originally. I'm thinking of just not putting the nails back in.
Sling Nails.jpgQuoted from Mathazar:Can someone tell me what the purpose of the nails are that are in the slingshot areas of some early Bally's (like the Mata Hari I put a hardtop in)? Is it just for support of the sling plastic piece or is there some sort of other functionality that it's suppose to provide? The hardtop holes don't align with where the nails were on the playfield originally. I'm thinking of just not putting the nails back in.[quoted image]
If it is like Black Knight, they are there for plastic support. On the upper playfield on BK, there were two under the right plastic of the 3 bank drop target.
Quoted from cjchand:Can anyone here speak to how their game played before and after? I’m super eager for the HS Hardtop to be released, but my playfield isn’t totally trashed, either. So, doing what I do best: overthink things... despite the post immediately above
My Taxi hardtop plays great. Nice and fast and feels like it was just waxed up. I haven't had any issues at all and wouldn't hesitate to use the hardtop again. My playfield was pretty trashed but I don't think you can beat the product for the money. I put LEDs in, cleaned everything else up, and the game looks brand new.
Quoted from BRW84:One thing I'll add is that I've seen so many folks talking about sanding and clearing the entire playfield. I can understand that to a degree if you're an absolute perfectionist, but all I did was sand the area around the inserts and I got great results. There are a few areas on my Flash Gordon where the pre-cut holes on the hardtop are large enough that you can see a bit of the original playfield underneath, and personally, I'd rather see the original paint than sanded, cleared wood. To each their own, but you don't have a ton of free time on your hands and you want to get back to playing, I think you can get awesome results just by sanding the inserts and rubbing a little Novus 2 into them before installing the hardtop.
I would echo this for sure. I did sand my whole playfield down to 1,200 grit to get it nice and level and any stray raised areas out, but that was it. In the back of my mind all the clearing seemed like overkill and I think (personally) it is. I've played another game with the clear applied before the hardtop and it plays the same as my Taxi that I didn't clear before.
Quoted from Mathazar:Can someone tell me what the purpose of the nails are
They are to keep wild balls out of areas they could get lodged if they get past the rubbers. Protection for operators so for a home game I'd leave them out. Some may not even be original, if an operator found a game with a stuck ball at some point they may have added a nail. (Can't speak for your game, just in general.)
Quoted from polyacanthus:They are to keep wild balls out of areas they could get lodged if they get past the rubbers. Protection for operators so for a home game I'd leave them out. Some may not even be original, if an operator found a game with a stuck ball at some point they may have added a nail. (Can't speak for your game, just in general.)
I could swear I read, or I was drinking, that they also kept the plastics from warping down. With the old 44 bulbs that generated heat they would make the plastic soft and some would warp. But your explanation was the main purpose!
Another one done. It will be available to be played at Pinball at the Zoo in Kalamazoo, Michigan next weekend and after that on location at North End Pub in Lafayette, IN.
45202146-DD7C-44C6-85BF-7E78C34B76D8 (resized).jpeg7541C99C-D489-4948-9190-D4FC8AF576C3 (resized).jpegE9CF08FD-AFD8-4D1A-B15C-F0EA1D36F54D (resized).jpegF1EB79BF-3F6E-4F70-9FF0-DD626D6FBB52 (resized).jpegQuoted from Mathazar:Can someone tell me what the purpose of the nails are that are in the slingshot areas of some early Bally's (like the Mata Hari I put a hardtop in)? Is it just for support of the sling plastic piece or is there some sort of other functionality that it's suppose to provide? The hardtop holes don't align with where the nails were on the playfield originally. I'm thinking of just not putting the nails back in.[quoted image]
From the factory they are to support the plastics. The ones shown in your picture prevent the plastics from warping down and having the sling arm hitting it. As others have stated many ops added them for areas with high rate of stuck balls. Not needed if running #47's or LEDS.
If anyone is going to the Golden State Pinball Festival next month, I will have a beat up High Speed playfield for sale.
If you buy some of the .
0.03 thick clear plastic sheets from amazon and cut them to fit it will be perfect
blockquote cite="#4935525">I just put one on my Flash Gordon last weekend. It looks AMAZING and plays great. The only issue I'm having is that I still need to do a lot of adjustments due to the added height of the hardtop. I had to raise two of the ramps so the ball wouldn't get stuck at the lower spinners (I used some thin poster board screwed in on each end of the ramps to add a bit of height). If you have star rollovers, be REALLY careful to make them level with the hardtop, because mine settled after install and the ball gets stuck on them. I even had a ball get stuck on an inlane rollover, but a sharp nudge dislodged it. I'm glad I did the hardtop because my playfield was trashed, but you have to be prepared for some adjustments. A new playfield would be the ideal option, but you're looking at much more money and a hell of a lot more work. I still think it's a great product, and I'm thrilled they make it for Frontier, because I desperately want a Frontier and every one I've seen has a blown-out playfield.
Made some progress on my Taxi Hard Top install. I am following a few different techniques posted here on Pinside. For sanding, 100, 150, and 200 worked the best.
This is not an easy job. Tons of prep work and trial and error. I really had to spend some time getting the mylar adhesive off (flour and alcohol didn't work as good as I thought it would).
Anyhow, hopefully I can start re-assembly in a few days after the clear hardens up.
IMG_9409 (resized).JPGIMG_2179 (resized).JPGQuoted from mof:Why do some people clear before a hardtop?
Its in the instructions to clear the inserts or sand them with fine sandpaper. You also have the exposed shooter lane and kickouts.
Quoted from gearheaddropping:instructions
Thanks I had no idea (I thought sanding was enough -- something most people can do) -- doesn't that rather limit who is an ideal candidate for this solution, since not everyone has the space/equipment/skills to shoot clear.
-mof
Not activated automotive clear. Talking about spray can clear like Krylon or even a coat of brushed on Minwax Polycrylic is nice (and made for wood).
Also, in some cases the inserts have lettering on them which needs to be removed. It's tough to sand them glossy so a quick shot of Triple Thick makes them shiny. You really don't need to sand the old playfield entirely to whitewood either. Just those areas the Hardtop graphics will not cover. That includes that little bit of open area typically around rollover switches. If you have an orbital sander it's fairly simple to just do the whole thing. Those areas and the shooter lane needs some clear before the Hardtop goes on.
Quoted from mof:Thanks I had no idea (I thought sanding was enough -- something most people can do) -- doesn't that rather limit who is an ideal candidate for this solution, since not everyone has the space/equipment/skills to shoot clear.
-mof
I sanded mine down with 1200 grit and didn't clear anything. Looks fine to me but ymmv.
I also only sanded and polished the inserts -- didn't want to go through the hassle and unknowns of clearing the playfield. I documented my restoration here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/firepower-hardtop-restoration
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