(Topic ID: 218168)

Official "HARDTOPS" thread


By Skypilot

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,392 posts
  • 309 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Robotworkshop
  • Topic is favorited by 195 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“If we produce a Hardtop for this game would yo purchase it?”

  • High Speed 137 votes
    14%
  • Firepower 98 votes
    10%
  • Silverball Mania 47 votes
    5%
  • Time Warp 21 votes
    2%
  • Mata Hari 43 votes
    4%
  • Blackout 82 votes
    8%
  • Tri-Zone 16 votes
    2%
  • Swords of Fury 60 votes
    6%
  • Space Station 49 votes
    5%
  • Fathom 40 votes
    4%
  • Pinbot 106 votes
    11%
  • Eight Ball Deluxe 107 votes
    11%
  • Strikes and Spares 36 votes
    4%
  • Kiss (Bally) 40 votes
    4%
  • Supersonic 32 votes
    3%
  • Grand Lizard 62 votes
    6%

(Multiple choice - 976 votes by 572 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 1392 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 28.
#451 1 year ago

You should know those original BK jeweled inserts are unobtainium.

Excited for more Hardtop news!

#452 1 year ago

Me too. Keeping fingers crossed for Ebd.

#453 1 year ago

Funhouse please

#454 1 year ago

Flash was mentioned earlier, I would be in for 1 also

10
#455 1 year ago

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for including the extra strip of plastic with the FG hardtop. Was able to create fitted shims for each ramp and create a perfectly smooth transition

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#456 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Did you shop by physical size? Marco has multiple insert generic sizes and colors not attached to specific games.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=inserts

I own a BK. I would not put generic inserts into a game that came with such unique inserts to begin. I'd either fix them or go a different route. CPR used starburst simply because no one manufactures the jeweled inserts. They are unobtainium.

That being said, your playfield is way to nice to hardtop it. Good decision not to trash it.

#457 1 year ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for including the extra strip of plastic with the FG hardtop. Was able to create fitted shims for each ramp and create a perfectly smooth transition

I didn't get any extra with my BK hardtop so I cut away a lot of the material that sits under the apron and used that for shims. I also had to shim the outside shooter lane rail as the hardtop didn't extend across the shooter lane. Hopefully this is being addressed now. If not, get out your utility knife and a ruler!

#458 1 year ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

That being said, your playfield is way to nice to hardtop it. Good decision not to trash it.

Sadly, I do not have a BK. I was just trying to help find a solution because that is what I like doing.

#459 1 year ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

I didn't get any extra with my BK hardtop so I cut away a lot of the material that sits under the apron and used that for shims. I also had to shim the outside shooter lane rail as the hardtop didn't extend across the shooter lane. Hopefully this is being addressed now. If not, get out your utility knife and a ruler!

Oh gosh. Now that I think about it, that may have been what that extra strip of plastic was for LOL. Either way, I think it's a good idea to include extra strips of plastic for shimming.

#460 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Sadly, I do not have a BK. I was just trying to help find a solution because that is what I like doing.

Didn't mean to come across as an ass. My apologies.

#461 1 year ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for including the extra strip of plastic with the FG hardtop. Was able to create fitted shims for each ramp and create a perfectly smooth transition [quoted image]

You are welcome. I cut parts off of another prototype to do mine.I then realized this would make things much easier. I will talk to the guys at Outsidedge and see if they can include this strip on all dual level playfields.

#462 1 year ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

Didn't mean to come across as an ass. My apologies.

No..no. I did not take that in a bad way at all. No worries.

#463 1 year ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

You are welcome. I cut parts off of another prototype to do mine.I then realized this would make things much easier. I will talk to the guys at Outsidedge and see if they can include this strip on all dual level playfields.

I ordered one for my Black Knight over Christmas and they resume shipping on 10JAN. Here's hoping I get an extra strip with mine! Thanx.....

#464 1 year ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I ordered one for my Black Knight over Christmas and they resume shipping on 10JAN. Here's hoping I get an extra strip with mine! Thanx.....

Let us know if they add a shim strip for the ramps AND the extra long shim for the shooter lane!

Thanks!

#465 1 year ago

I sent an email, but thought I'd post here too.

If you already have a hardtop for a specific game, would it be possible to print different artwork on that hartop plastic?

Robert

#466 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

I sent an email, but thought I'd post here too.
If you already have a hardtop for a specific game, would it be possible to print different artwork on that hartop plastic?
Robert

This would be a great product for re-themes too! Obviously, due to license issue we can't be sent the original art templates to games, but what about a digital blank canvas template for those of us that can photoshop our own art for re-themes? Then would you be able to print original themes? Just curious. I think this would open the door for even more business.

#467 1 year ago
Quoted from TheCapn:

This would be a great product for re-themes too! Obviously, due to license issue we can't be sent the original art templates to games, but what about a digital blank canvas template for those of us that can photoshop our own art for re-themes? Then would you be able to print original themes? Just curious. I think this would open the door for even more business.

Exactly what I was thinking.

#468 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

I sent an email, but thought I'd post here too.
If you already have a hardtop for a specific game, would it be possible to print different artwork on that hartop plastic?
Robert

It's been discussed in prior threads with Outside Edge. I think he was open to the idea, but I would guess it's not an immediate priority.

#469 1 year ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

I didn't get any extra with my BK hardtop so I cut away a lot of the material that sits under the apron and used that for shims. I also had to shim the outside shooter lane rail as the hardtop didn't extend across the shooter lane. Hopefully this is being addressed now. If not, get out your utility knife and a ruler!

I made the suggestion to Outeredge when I did the BK prototype. Glad to hear it happened. In my case I was making new siderails so I just adjusted that right edge to be another .030" thicker but otherwise the upper playfield is just that tad too high. Also, the ramp edges. BK does have a nice "cross brace" at the top of the lower playfield Hardtop. You can cut that off and use the material, too.

#470 1 year ago
Quoted from comment23:

I think he was open to the idea, but I would guess it's not an immediate priority.

In the email I was sent, this was the response: "...the costs associated are usually wayyyy higher than an average person realizes."

I just asked if it was possible, not if he thought I couldn't afford it.

I'm rethemeing a game, and have generated artwork for that game as every "rethemer" would do. Our choice now is pretty much to either hand paint a sanded off playfield or make a sticker/decal to put down as an overlay.

It would be so much easier for us, and probably longer lasting, to send in our artwork to have it printed on an already available/designed/made hardtop plastic piece.

It would take maybe 15 minutes to import a file (to a specific format) and register it properly for printing. Even at $200/hr overhead, that only adds $50 to the cost of the product.

From all of the posts about decal/sticker failure after installing and from my own experience of the process to get one of these overlays down onto a playfield without stretching or wrinkling the thing, one should see nothing but positives with having a semi-custom hardtops available.

I'm not dissing the effort to needed make these current Hardtops. I think that the people that are making these Hardtops are doing a great thing and saving some games from the being parted out and/or to make some marginal looking games beautiful again.

I just think that perhaps the next step would be to maybe offer some semi-custom work on an existing product.

Robert

#471 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

In the email I was sent, this was the response: "...the costs associated are usually wayyyy higher than an average person realizes."
I just asked if it was possible, not if he thought I couldn't afford it.
I'm rethemeing a game, and have generated artwork for that game as every "rethemer" would do. Our choice now is pretty much to either hand paint a sanded off playfield or make a sticker/decal to put down as an overlay.
It would be so much easier for us, and probably longer lasting, to send in our artwork to have it printed on an already available/designed/made hardtop plastic piece.
It would take maybe 15 minutes to import a file (to a specific format) and register it properly for printing. Even at $200/hr overhead, that only adds $50 to the cost of the product.
From all of the posts about decal/sticker failure after installing and from my own experience of the process to get one of these overlays down onto a playfield without stretching or wrinkling the thing, one should see nothing but positives with having a semi-custom hardtops available.
I'm not dissing the effort to needed make these current Hardtops. I think that the people that are making these Hardtops are doing a great thing and saving some games from the being parted out and/or to make some marginal looking games beautiful again.
I just think that perhaps the next step would be to maybe offer some semi-custom work on an existing product.
Robert

I personally don’t care about any of this and prefer they focus on making hardtops that save existing games from the dumpster.

#472 1 year ago
Quoted from radium:

I personally don’t care about any of this and prefer they focus on making hardtops that save existing games from the dumpster.

Rethemes are taking games that would be parted out and made useable again, albeit with different artwork.

#473 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

In the email I was sent, this was the response: "...the costs associated are usually wayyyy higher than an average person realizes."
I just asked if it was possible, not if he thought I couldn't afford it.

So, I guess you found your answer. Yes, it is possible but really expensive.

I know that for the first HardTop it took him at least 6 months to get something ready to prototype. Also remember that many of these folks working on building HardTops have day-to-day jobs outside of this, so sometimes it's not "buying someone's time" as it is as "actually having time to do it."

My thought would be that if you are looking for an immediate solution, a HardTop probably isn't the right product for you at this exact moment.

It would be awesome to see HardTop re-themes, but like I stated I don't think it's a roadmap item as there are so many outstanding titles that need original artwork at this time.

#474 1 year ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

I'm rethemeing a game, and have generated artwork for that game as every "rethemer" would do. Our choice now is pretty much to either hand paint a sanded off playfield or make a sticker/decal to put down as an overlay.

If you have a local Signs!Now shop, they can print anything you want on plastic .

Maybe get a blank overlay from OutsideEdge and have S!N print your artwork.

#475 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If you have a local Signs!Now shop, they can print anything you want on plastic. Maybe get a blank overlay from OutsideEdge and have S!N print your artwork.

Thanks for the info. I sent in a request to see if they could print on one of these"

ebay.com link » Playfield Protectors For Pinball Machines M S

Robert

11
#476 1 year ago

Outsidedge will be including a filler strip on all dual level playfields.

#477 1 year ago

Sorry if this topic has already been discussed but here is my question:

Could you guys offer the hardtops WITHOUT adhesive. I would rather have this product not adhered to the playfield personally. If removing the adhesive adds risk to the artwork underneath getting scratched maybe you could add a simple laminate on the back instead of adhesive. Anyway, please offer this!

Thank you

#478 1 year ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

Sorry if this topic has already been discussed but here is my question:
Could you guys offer the hardtops WITHOUT adhesive. I would rather have this product not adhered to the playfield personally. If removing the adhesive adds risk to the artwork underneath getting scratched maybe you could add a simple laminate on the back instead of adhesive. Anyway, please offer this!
Thank you

I agree. I would buy one for a game of mine if it did not have adhesive.

#479 1 year ago

The registration would all be slightly off, hence why you sand off the art first. Sounds like you guys would do better with one of those full playfield clear protectors.

#480 1 year ago

Need a Funhouse...

#481 1 year ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

Sorry if this topic has already been discussed but here is my question:
Could you guys offer the hardtops WITHOUT adhesive. I would rather have this product not adhered to the playfield personally. If removing the adhesive adds risk to the artwork underneath getting scratched maybe you could add a simple laminate on the back instead of adhesive. Anyway, please offer this!
Thank you

Quoted from snyper2099:

I agree. I would buy one for a game of mine if it did not have adhesive.

Or you could just stick the hardtop to a clear mylar, laminate, or what ever other thin plastic and then put in your game.

#482 1 year ago

Don’t peel the paper off the sticker .

#483 1 year ago

I am voting for a Gorgar.

#484 1 year ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

Sorry if this topic has already been discussed but here is my question:
Could you guys offer the hardtops WITHOUT adhesive. I would rather have this product not adhered to the playfield personally. If removing the adhesive adds risk to the artwork underneath getting scratched maybe you could add a simple laminate on the back instead of adhesive. Anyway, please offer this!
Thank you

No, They will not. They have researched the product and have found this application does not work. Sorry

#485 1 year ago
Quoted from Pbgixxer:

Don’t peel the paper off the sticker .

That will probably work. Might just have to carefully cut the backing off from the insert areas.

Quoted from catboxer:

The registration would all be slightly off, hence why you sand off the art first. Sounds like you guys would do better with one of those full playfield clear protectors.

I don’t have a problem removing the original insert art or even sanding and clear coating the entire playfield to ensure no registration issues. My biggest problem is that when you look at the games that have a hardtop installed, the clear insert areas get dusty(ghosted looking). This is because those areas are essentially a small pocket and I would like to be able to clean them out periodically(every year or two let’s say).

Quoted from Skypilot:

No, They will not. They have researched the product and have found this application does not work. Sorry

Would you mind elaborating on why that wouldn’t work?

#486 1 year ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

My biggest problem is that when you look at the games that have a hardtop installed, the clear insert areas get dusty(ghosted looking). This is because those areas are essentially a small pocket and I would like to be able to clean them out periodically(every year or two let’s say).

What is getting into the "pocket"? And where is it coming from?
I suppose if it was really a problem you could treat a clear insert like you do a star rollover.

-1
#487 1 year ago
Quoted from 64bsstp:

What is getting into the "pocket"? And where is it coming from?
I suppose if it was really a problem you could treat a clear insert like you do a star rollover.

I would guess that the ball rolling over causes the protector to touch the clear coated insert underneath and eventually causes the dust. I have seen a few of these installed and I’ve seen this and that’s why I would rather just not have the product adhered to the playfield as this could be cleaned out every time you shop out the game if it wasn’t.

#488 1 year ago
Quoted from Pbgixxer:

Don’t peel the paper off the sticker .

Just realized that the backing is cut around the inserts already so this should work fine. Thanks for the suggestion.

#489 1 year ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

I would guess that the ball rolling over causes the protector to touch the clear coated insert underneath and eventually causes the dust. I have seen a few of these installed and I’ve seen this and that’s why I would rather just not have the product adhered to the playfield as this could be cleaned out every time you shop out the game if it wasn’t.

#490 1 year ago
F55ABD44-177C-43C4-8180-E752B32516D3 (resized).jpeg
-2
#491 1 year ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

I would guess that the ball rolling over causes the protector to touch the clear coated insert underneath and eventually causes the dust. I have seen a few of these installed and I’ve seen this and that’s why I would rather just not have the product adhered to the playfield as this could be cleaned out every time you shop out the game if it wasn’t.

Not sure if my above statement isn’t clear but what I am saying is that I’ve seen multiple hardtop installations with noticeable dust between the hardtop and inserts including the examples that were in the sellers booth at pinball shows. This makes me “guess” that the dust is being generated after the hardtop was installed. I honestly think this is an awesome product and I’m considering using one myself, I just think I’d rather not stick it down to permanently collect this dust.

#492 1 year ago

Put down the jewelers glasses and walk away!

#493 1 year ago

Boy I hope they do one, otherwise I guess I'll be playing a white wood (Just need to clear and pop out those star inserts and then I am ready!)

Quoted from desertT1:

[quoted image]

high speed sanded (resized).png
#494 1 year ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

Boy I hope they do one, otherwise I guess I'll be playing a white wood (Just need to clear and pop out those star inserts and then I am ready!)
[quoted image]

I’m a buyer of 2 as soon as they are available.

#495 1 year ago

Anybody with a Hardtop have pictures of this dust?

#496 1 year ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Anybody with a Hardtop have pictures of this dust?

Pic 24 in the gallery, you can see a few specs in one of the inserts. Not sure if that’s what you’re looking for, as that looks like a prepping issue.

#497 1 year ago

hey sky pilot do you know if they got the go ahead on Ebd. I've got a hardtop on a frontier no dust problems.

#498 1 year ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Anybody with a Hardtop have pictures of this dust?

Im not trying to be a picky complainer here. I pretty much immediately noticed a ghosting effect on one of the games the seller brought to the Allentown Pinfest in 2018(I believe it was a space shuttle). I wish I took a picture of it, but I didn't. It seemed most logical based on my observations at that show and my conversations with the seller that it was a bit of dust generated in the pocket between the hardtop and insert. The topic came up because I was simply asking, in this thread, if they could offer the product without the adhesive. I thought(and still think) if I install one of these I would rather not stick it down. I have since realized that I could just simply not remove the adhesive backing but I would still rather just buy the product without adhesive at all. Also I am wondering if the inserts that are painted over have adhesive or not. I know there is no adhesive in the areas of somewhat transparent inserts but what about the totally painted over ones. Unfortunately I cant find all that many detailed pictures of the product online to verify what areas have adhesive and what don't.

#499 1 year ago

I've done 3 of these for customers, and no dust has appeared.

#500 1 year ago
Quoted from tjc02002:

Im not trying to be a picky complainer here. I pretty much immediately noticed a ghosting effect on one of the games the seller brought to the Allentown Pinfest in 2018(I believe it was a space shuttle). I wish I took a picture of it, but I didn't. It seemed most logical based on my observations at that show and my conversations with the seller that it was a bit of dust generated in the pocket between the hardtop and insert. The topic came up because I was simply asking, in this thread, if they could offer the product without the adhesive. I thought(and still think) if I install one of these I would rather not stick it down. I have since realized that I could just simply not remove the adhesive backing but I would still rather just buy the product without adhesive at all. Also I am wondering if the inserts that are painted over have adhesive or not. I know there is no adhesive in the areas of somewhat transparent inserts but what about the totally painted over ones. Unfortunately I cant find all that many detailed pictures of the product online to verify what areas have adhesive and what don't.

To be fair; the seller of the product at the Allentown pinfest told me that the game(space shuttle) had the hardtop for a while and had been played a lot and that was part of why it might have had the effect we were seeing.

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