Just ask... Jared can't delete it on Pinside...

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And I disagree. I think Stern is quite capable of making an underwhelming dragon. I'd suspect they would do it as a bash toy, or a decorative piece.

It would be awesome to be wrong on this. Personally I'd love to see the ball swallowing interactive flying dragon everyone wants to crush TH, but come on, it's Stern. I love their games, but I'd say don't expect much more than the snake in MET, or less.

Welcome back to The Pinside. If you're going to say stuff like that, just use your real account. It's ok to have your name attached to your opinion. Just because people that disagree will pig pile on you doesn't make it less valid. In fact, having the balls to put your name on it makes it much more valid. Doing it like you just did means nobody would listen to it and makes you look like an asshat. Lots of folks love "throw away" games like XM. It is more correctly stated that you don't like XM (I don't either). But there are lots that do. As for SM, saying that is just obvious trolling. Learn to respect the games you don't like. Recognize the fact that there are great games that just don't suit you, but they are still great. And always use your real account.

I'm feeling left out. How is it that nobody has PMed me leaked playfield pics yet??? What's the world coming to!

While this is true, how good does it need to be before it is "good enough"? My TV is 65", and I watch it from about 11 feet away. Yes, Blu-Ray looks better on it. But I don't shun DVD. If that is the format I have it on, I'll still watch it. I wouldn't want to watch SD content on it, but DVD is good enough. Blu-Ray is better (both picture and sound).

Just like I can play a pinball machine from 1971 and have a freakin blast. It isn't the latest tech, but it is still good stuff. See that? It finally comes back to pinball. Now get off your butts and get some leaked pictures up here!!!

Even at the premium, I'd have to wait to play it first. I'm not a fan of SPIKE yet. There is something about the games so far that looks and feels cheap. So I want to know if it's just the games they have done, or is it just the way SPIKE games feel. It's a great theme for an epic pin. But the prices are so high now that I'd want to be sure about the game first.

Now that it's Monday, I'm giving thought to Stern doing it this way. On Friday before a long weekend officially say they are releasing GOT, but then giving no details about it purely to get 16 pages of speculation going. Personally I'm finding it a bit irritating that they are dragging it out this way. It's like announcing that you're going to have an announcement. I guess it ok if this game is epic, but if this is some cost cut piece of crap it will come off as insulting.

Completely different and irrelevant situation in this context. Unless you are saying that you like dribbling it out? This is a new way for Stern to announce a game and I was expressing my opinion that I don't care for it. I don't care for it from JJP either. But I don't see a reason to bring them into it.

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I don't know, that description had a lot of adjectives to live up to.

Well... oh who am I kidding, I don't like what has been revealed. I want to say something positive, but I just don't feel it. Maybe I can hold out hope that the gameplay is off the charts. If it is another generic mode "shoot the blinking shot" game it won't end up in my gameroom.

1500 posts? Khaleesi's milkshakes bring the boys to the yard!

The only downfall in that argument is that they now need to sell 50 more games to make up for the 5000 dollars I won't be sending them.

You can always make the argument that cutting $1 off of 1000 machines saves like... a thousand bucks. But we are talking $5000 machines. Removing and cost cutting in some areas doesn't have that much impact. I don't like the peg legs on my games when I work on them, but it isn't a catastrophe. And I have to admit I don't mind the snap latch lockdown bar (less "fitting" issues with it). But then snip off an entire playfield? Something that will probably be integral to the game like that? Remove the actual throne in game of F-ing thrones? There is a point of diminishing returns.

It has everything to do with steering people to the premium and the higher profit margin associated with that.

It isn't that I would complain, it is that everyone would complain. The $3600 $3900 $4100 $4300 $4600 $4995 game is the niche they own alone. Abandoning it would remove one of their main markets and the differentiation that makes them so critical to the industry. The 5k game is something everyone can point to, and only Stern is doing.

So Dwight Sullivan vs Keith Johnson? I think Dwight has only been the lead programmer on one game I really love (Getaway). That game has pretty simplistic (but cool) rules. His other work just doesn't float my boat. Yes, he was listed on a lot of games I dig, but wasn't the lead on them. On the other hand Keith tells massive stories in his games. He makes you part of a different world, and has proven his skill over and over.

In my opinion (and only my opinion), this is a matchup of a man and a boy. And I'm sorry if that sounds insulting to Dwight. He has been in this industry a long time, and has worked on a lot of games. I just think Keith is a freaking weirdo that can spin a yarn in his head and implement that into amazing gameplay. He knows how to give beginners, intermediates, and experts something to shoot for.

I played it, and I don't agree with your assessment.

I saw that differently. The sword knocks back the other balls before the post then releases the first. So it does look like it changes the movement of the balls.

Watch the video with Steve working on ST. Watch him working with David Thiel on the music. The guy is obsessed. He even had how he wanted the theme and was telling David over and over how he wanted it to sound until it was correct. And you can hear the theme he was bashing on the side of a game that is in ST now. Are you telling me that kind of maniacal obsession doesn't carry to the artwork on his game? I think it does.

Oh, they care. For quite a while Stern has stated that we (Pinside) are not their biggest set of customers. They have also said that overseas is a bigger market than the USA. So now we will see how long that holds true. Canada is not the only place the currency has flipped.

Serious question... Does Pinball Browser work on SPIKE games? It just seems odd they would redo the entire control system and still leave it open.

Well when a JJP lover (Panzer) posts where a JJP hater (Ballz) can see it, of course it will seem like that. But requesting either of them to not be who they are is just madness. The haters need to accept the love, and the lovers need to accept the hate. Welcome to the world. Pretty much every JJP thread has the opposite side from SilverBallz.

Well that sounds like horsecrap to me. You seem to hunt down every JJP thread to hate on it. By your own expression that is hate of JJP and not just Jack. I'm not asking you to stop, I'm just pointing out how it always sounds.

And as for:

It won't be. I'm also looking forward to it, but unfortunately it will not be priced anything close to what I'd consider to be "reasonable". It will be very expensive, which is where every manufacturer has priced their full featured games.

The only thing I'm worried about is being too much like Star Trek with the "shot the lit shot". It has the potential to be coded that way as I look at it. Add in some multiballs, and poof.

And I'm only saying I am worried about it, not that it will be that.

Ha! Nice typo by me!

Well this issue is only with mode based games. And my best example is LOTR. Yes, of course it is shooting the lit shot, but every one of them feels distinctive. As I'm attempting to Kill the Witchking, it's just a combo shot, but the sounds and dots always feel right. On Star Trek, it feels generic and random to me. Nothing ever cracks into that distinctive feeling. Just hey, over here next.

Games break down into a few catagorise for me. The "hit this a bunch of times, then hit it some more" (MB, Tron, IM). The quests (WOZ, LOTR). The big points games (MET, AC/DC). And the "shoot the lit shot" (Transformers, Star Trek, and it looks like GOT).

Each one of them adds some combination to make the game. Toss in some fun Multiballs and poof, it's a game. I like games in every catagory I listed. I was just looking for what is going to make GOT special.

I actually liked that aspect of it. If I unbox a game with some buds, it would sound similar. WTF was that shot. How did you start that mode. Fumble! You suck.

It isn't? I'm out!

In case you hadn't noticed, it's a completely different world from when LOTR was released. Technology has made it so we all see every detail. And twitter has taught us that everyone's opinion matters. Even a middle aged doof like me can express an opinion about the crappy art of a game that I've never played. And if I'm persistent and well regarded by a bunch of other middle aged guys, maybe it is respected enough to shape the thought of the world. It happens more and more, and it happens faster and faster. My classic example is Transformers. The public thought is that it was a failure. But every time I play it, I have fun. According to group think I shouldn't, but I do.

Right now all we have is artwork, and some grainy web video of play. We know for a fact that the programmers were working all weekend to pull the game into the shape it was in for that webcast. And seriously, the art isn't so great. But then again the art sucks on Tron too (sorry Centerflank). But I don't care because the package of Tron works. The game is a blast. Maybe this will be a good game, maybe it will be a boring game. I'll let you know after I play it. But until I can, I'll form my opinion on what I have so far.

Sorry, nobody is going to enter that market. Stern has the infrastructure and proven ability to execute, and they would crush anyone trying to get into that market. It would take someone with pretty deep pockets that could self fund their business, and the payback isn't a good risk for a return on that money. It just isn't worth it.

You could honor him by following him. ?

Finally! Our time is now!

They are not determining if the game sucks... they are determining if THEY think the game sucks for them. And it will happen to you too. After the years roll by you get to understand what you like and don't like in games. At first it is all unicorns and show-ponies. Every game feels like the best game ever made. And then one day you are playing a game and not enjoying it. There is something about that sound, or that shot that doesn't do it for you. Or hey, why can't I see the ball around that corner the time that shot, I hate that. And all of a sudden you realize you don't like movement of the ball you cannot see while playing. Or you hate left orbit shots that stop at a post. You get to understand that there are not that many rule sets in pinball. They are variations of a style, and it is the implementation that can make them great.

So what people are seeing is things that may not work for them. Maybe the upper playfield blocks the view of the ball on the ramp. Maybe the ruleset is just "follow the lights" like Star Trek. What folks are saying is they see something in the game that doesn't fit in with their sensibilities. It is also why Stern is normally careful to not release games in the same rule style one after the other.

As for me, I wouldn't say the game sucks. However, from the video I've seen, it isn't a game I would actively buy right now (even though I am a big fan of the show). But maybe it ends up being the greatest game ever, and if it is, maybe I'll look at it down the road. But nobody can determine where this game will end up over time.

Kaneda, I'm going to say this. Thanks for the review of the game now that you have played it.