In case you hadn't noticed, it's a completely different world from when LOTR was released. Technology has made it so we all see every detail. And twitter has taught us that everyone's opinion matters. Even a middle aged doof like me can express an opinion about the crappy art of a game that I've never played. And if I'm persistent and well regarded by a bunch of other middle aged guys, maybe it is respected enough to shape the thought of the world. It happens more and more, and it happens faster and faster. My classic example is Transformers. The public thought is that it was a failure. But every time I play it, I have fun. According to group think I shouldn't, but I do.

Right now all we have is artwork, and some grainy web video of play. We know for a fact that the programmers were working all weekend to pull the game into the shape it was in for that webcast. And seriously, the art isn't so great. But then again the art sucks on Tron too (sorry Centerflank). But I don't care because the package of Tron works. The game is a blast. Maybe this will be a good game, maybe it will be a boring game. I'll let you know after I play it. But until I can, I'll form my opinion on what I have so far.

Well put. I too have enjoyed Transformers a lot and never understood why it got so bashed.

1000% agree. FOUR (!) characters duped on cab and head. WTF? F Stern. Freaking cavalier.

I think they move the guys in the video mode

I like it too. That dragon is looking really cool. A new translite would make it awesome.

Appeal to Authority

You and I went over this already:

When someone says something in public, other people have the right to call them out on what they said. That's what I did to Ritchie; that's what you did to me in response to me doing it to Ritchie. It only makes sense that if you're going to argue against someone's claim you provide any evidence if you have it.

Steve Ritchie's claim was that my design wouldn't fly through approvals. I refuted that it wouldn't at least be somewhat in the ballpark by showing some evidence: all the HBO-sanctioned material I used to build up my cabinet.

I'm sure the reality is that Ritchie's statement was just a clever deflection to the person he was responding to that said that they liked my design. It allowed him to avoid saying that he did or didn't like the design and changed the subject to its approval viability. Something of a conversational sleight of hand.

Yes, they could have. Try and find another HBO Game of Thrones product that is of similar or lower quality than the pinball machines. I haven't yet, and believe me that I've been looking. If anyone finds one, please share it.

Why? I may not be buying anymore, but I still want to play it, and when I play it I want it to be the best experience possible. This is why I'm complaining about the video mode. I still intend on playing it one day, even if right now it looks like an Atari 2600 game. The worst thing I can do at the moment is sit idly by and not say something about it looking like a turd. If no one says anything negative about it, it might end up like that in the final product, because Stern doesn't know people aren't happy with it.

And repeating what I said before:

That premium with a full highly polish chrome armor including chrome door would look awesome

I think it's unfair to compare anything with a game that no one has played, hasn't been released, and has very early code. I love LOTR. Will GOT be better or worse? Who knows? I'm liking what I'm seeing, but I have no clue what playing it will be like. It would be hard to surpass LOTR, but I can't say it will or won't until it is complete and I play it.

THE WALKING DEAD
FEAR THE WALKING DEAD
and now we will have.......wait foooooooor iiiiiit........GOT THE DEAD

Let's see.....how long have you been posting here.....

ebay.com link: Stern Game of Thrones Premium Pinball Machine FREE SHIPPING New in Box GOT

WAIT WHAT? You mean I can get the premium in a week?

I'm surprised that "Vastly different from the Pro model" is part of the official Stern copy on these. I'm pretty sure the stripped down Pros and lack of upgrades on the LEs are just a big marketing ploy and the whole plan was to sell tons of Premiums.

they say they are official stern distributors I called and they said they will deliver them in 3 weeks........riiiiiiiight

Who decides SR saying it wouldn't make it through approvals is an extraordinary claim? You? Based on your google-fu? Internet expertise at its finest. And what evidence is Ritchie supposed to supply? The details of their licensing agreement with HBO? Recorded meetings? Written statements from the HBO licensing people? I choose to take him at his word as he has earned it. Why would he have to justify and prove his comments to you or anyone else on the internet?

Really? Do they have the right to determine that the "reality" is their statement is just a clever deflection? Again, where do you get to decide this reality and in the same paragraph say Ritchie is lying or trying to deflect some truth? Same google-fu?

See, I said possibly. I also said "I don't know" because I am not involved with HBO, their licensing or this pinball machine. Neither are you. Your certainty is once again based on some game of thrones graphics you pulled of the internet.

Thank goodness we have you here.

People keep throwing out this argument that those of us that don't like something should just be quiet. Why? Things are changing because people are complaining. I don't think that premium playfield would have looked any different if it wasn't for the complaints. I'm not saying it's any better (maybe a frog's hair better) but I do appreciate Stern listening. And the next game they make, maybe they will put a little more thought into the art.

Whoever commented on Facebook about also changing the DMD display out for a blue colored one is right too. That's a great mod for the premium, having a blue (or white) display.

I hope I don't come off this way. I think people should speak up when they don't like something. The forums are here to talk about pinball, both the likes and the dislikes and criticism is important as without it things won't improve.

However one can say "I don't like this because of this", without saying "these guys are so lazy/incompetent/full of crap, I could do so much better". One is being critical in a constructive respectful way, the other is not. At the end of the day, the team who have worked on this pin have put in a lot of time and effort and are worthy of some respect imo. If someone disagrees with that, and thinks that even basic respect isn't warranted, then I wish they would keep it to themselves.

It's been proven that speaking up makes a difference. So anyone complaining about it will just have to deal, because criticism is not only people's right, it's helpful.

Just get over it. If you like the game and the art then enjoy it.

Art is one of the reasons I've never wanted a Tron Pro or ACDC Pro, regardless of quality of game play. They need something substantial to overshadow the poor art decisions like the lighted ramps in a Tron or a lower playfield on ACDC. Customers have had to come up with solutions for Pro models like Eli's Ramps or Angus Face decal, but GoT Pro is missing an entire upper playfield... tough to replace that much.

Being a fan of the show and seeing those HD Pics, the LE looks pretty bitching. Plus, the pf actually looks better in person (videos) than the photoshopped rendition. This game is directly on course where STLE was 2 years ago and ACDC 2 years before that. So let's all take a chill pill and watch the king run the control console and give us yet another epic stern title.

I don't think that's true. At one point I knew which one it was but forgot =)

Like SMVE comic art. Could be the great comeback.

I have to admit that when I saw the pictures, I also thought they were looking pretty good. It made me want the LE. I like the Premium but I'm wondering whether the lighter colored play field will actually go better with the theme and modes of the game. After all, only part of the books/show take place in the north. I just don't think I can justify the cost of the LE, especially when I plan to put the pin in between two others so the sides won't even be visible. Anyway, this talk of art is exhausting me. The game looks awesome to play. I just want to try it out.

The LE cabinet and back box pictures are the best of all models IMO.

How are some people so sure Stern changed the art on the premium because of the complaing on pinside. Seems to me this was their plan all along. A winter themed cabinet with a desert looking play field would really make no sense.

Agreed until you went to the coindoor. Yuck.

Chainmail on one and radial effect on the other makes no sense. That's what was changed.

You forgot the clunky game play too!

Lol using the pinside top 100 as a basis of comparing pins is comical these days at best!

Yeah, I like the LE cab and back box pics the best too, and I like the side rails. The difference in cost between the LE and Premium (especially in CDN) is too much for me to justify just for the art though.

Of course he doesn't have to provide any evidence of his own, nor does he owe it to the Internet to provide it, but that doesn't mean the Internet isn't allowed to dispute his claim. I disputed it; based on his merits, I made an extraordinary claim, so I was compelled to provide evidence to support that claim, which I did. Get it?

I don't "get to decide this reality". I postulated that Ritchie deflected onto a more nebulous topic (approval viability) so that he could avoid saying something negative about the design, which would have come off as unprofessional, or positive about the design, which would have bad implications for Stern and the product he helped produce. So responding positively or negatively would have been bad for him. No Google necessary to figure that out; this is just using my brain.

And what do I find on the Internet? Tons and tons of better designed products that also went through the HBO approval gauntlet and passed. What are you saying? That I can't compare Stern's products with theirs, see a difference in quality, and assume that Stern wasn't allowed to make their games look as nice as the rest of the GoT merchandise? I wasn't involved in the approval process, true, but I think I can safely guess (but I can't know, right?!) that HBO wanted Stern to build the best looking product possible and didn't tell them to crap it up a little because it looked too good.

Indeed, because like or not, I and the rest of us Pinsiders that aren't settlers are the ones that compel Stern into making better products. Remember #wheresthethrone? Don't be surprised if more suggestions, like replacing the silver shield, or putting Ygritte on the translite make it into the Premiums. Or better than Atari 2600 graphics make it into the video mode because of critiques like mine.

Exactly.

This is called tone policing. This is what the Urban Dictionary says about tone police:

Tone police are people who focus on (and critique) how something is said, ignoring whether or not it is true.

They will discard a true statement simply because they don't like how it was presented. This attitude is prevalent among emotional midgets, mental midgets, liberals and wimps.

They tend to be intolerant of any statement that isn't couched with empty platitudes and butt-kissing, while thinking themselves a model of tolerance. They are often also hypocrites.

Tone police: "You might be right, but since I don't like how you said it, I demand you apologize!"

Sounds about right.

No, its called having some class. Here is what the urban dictionary says about class:

Something MEN have and BOYS don't. Respect.

XXVII - I take your point. But I think the biggest hole in your argument, which I otherwise agree with, is you stuck a big piece of fan art on the side. It was rad fan art, but not from HBO. And it would be easy to look at your mockup, and see that, and say "nope".

I have a man crush on old SR...but I agree with you. HBO is not Disney..I bet you could have put a decapitated head on that cab and they wouldn't have given 2 shits about it.

Yeah, I agree. I didn't know it was fan art when I made it, but I realized it since then. I even mentioned this in the original post paul complained about:

In any case, this is an easy fix. Instead of the cool 3D sigil, it could have just as well been the flat grey one from the official artwork. That'd still look nice and on theme.

Those 3D ones are bad ass though, I wouldn't be mad at all if all three versions of the game just had those on them instead of headshots. For fan art they were really nicely thought through and rendered.

Haha, okay. Now you're reminding me of the "slit your throat neck" fedora wearer:

Ha! Warm and fuzzy? No. But, it's just a pinball machine, after all. Hard to capture everything.

I've only recently started watching the tv show. I have read all the books. In my opinion, the tv show is a pale comparison to the books. It is a quality show, but no where near the quality of the books. So, when I think of a pinball machine that can only be a pale comparison to a tv show which is a pale comparison to the books . . . well, I don't think we can expect it to capture everything. Like all pinball machines, this is going to come down to gameplay and code. The theme is secondary. Again, I just want to play it. It is the most unique Stern layout that we have seen in a long time -- in terms of the Premium/LE. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy more than the art.

People are influenced by repetition.

As soon as something is released there are lots of varied opinions, however there are always a handful of people who regurgitate their slant over and over and over, and that's what many people remember for better or worse.

Some people will be swayed by comments without even knowing if it is even true or what it even means. People will say X is good or bad based on what they read online or someone told them.

Here is an interesting example: Do a pinside search on the word "gradient". That word is barely a blip on the pinside search engine until Game of Thrones was announced. Now it is the buzzword for banging on the GoT artwork. The vast majority of pinsiders have never even used the word gradient in a post until GoT was announced.

I'm not debating whether or not the gradient discussion even applies to GoT, but it is amusing how often the word is being used as part of the lexicon to complain about GoT art.

Thats not a fedora, its a (winter) cap to keep (snow) from getting in your hair, my lady friends where them and shower caps, you can even wear a swim cap in a pinch.

Lol, that would be me!

That's because most people are sheep.

They want to be told what to do and told what to like.

Your "gradient" example is a perfect example.

rd

Just wait until ebola, SARS, Y2K, cell phone tumors, artificial sweeteners, H1N1, Charlie Sheen, west nile virus, Toyota Gas Pedals, ice ages, heat waves, killer bees, Kim Kardashian, and (naturally) the Game of Thrones pinball art all show up as promised and bring about the end of days...

You'll wish someone had mentioned them at least once...

onoz_omg2-1.gif

Simon Cowell knows this.

Now google "Pinside bevel & emboss" I have let my nerd rage spit fire for several years about this. First of all, no need for all the peons throwing spears at me when I complain about horrible art created by Stern. At least people are learning what is good and what is bad. The point is, it came up because it is bad. It is 2015 and pinball needs to be better than this.

Don't let pinball deteriorate and become trash. Don't listen to people who think ART and PINBALL are two different things. Like (lowepg) for example who do not think ART is important. Who do not think ART is an impacting factor to pinball's future. WHO do not think that ART can influence the gameplay and how you enjoy pinball. If you love this hobby... Art is F**king important.

But that's the word for it. If you didn't know the word before, once you learned it would you not use it? And really, is it an exotic word?

Someone in this thread even thanked me for providing some design language that described how they felt, but didn't know how to put into words.

I feel the same way when say herg explains the LED OCD. If he says that the right term is pulse width (probably got that wrong!) and not current for describing brightness then I'll use that term instead, because I appreciate people educating me.

I know I post a lot, and that's because I read a lot. I'm here to learn. I've also been using Photoshop for 24 years, I make a living with it every day. I'm not a design know-it-all, or the best designer out there. But I know me a little Photoshop. So I have an area of expertise that I can share back. Not because I'm smarter, it's just that in my field it's a basic thing. You say gradient.

So good for you if you now know that that's a radial gradient, mapped between light and dark grey, with several transition points.

A gradient is just a transition, or a ramp. You can see how ramp and the topographic meaning of gradient relate, same root. If you imagine a transition from dark to light, and back to dark, repeat. Now wrap that around into a circle, so you almost get a sunburst look.

Layer that with a little radial blur and some noise (or a bunch of other similar techniques) to give yourself a little metal texture and "tooth" like the grooves of a record and drop some spark stock art on top of it.

It's the same trick all the brushed metal icon designers have been using ever since Apple made it popular.

There are hundreds of sets like these.

If you don't mind it then cool! But it's a gradient, it's a cheesy technique that's already been overused for years, and since they changed it on the Premium it's obvious that HBO didn't demand it or something.

Some of us found that disappointing, because it felt rushed, or like someone didn't care, or wasn't given the time, or whatever. I'm not pointing fingers, because I don't know why. But the end result is what it is. So let's call it by the right name.

Gradient.

That's not being a sheep, that's being smart and using words that are clear and precise. IMHO.

/tone_police mode OFF

Here's the difference:

He's SR. Who the #%^$ are you?

Get it?

Your mockup based on someone else's fan art was an interesting post, but thats all it was....

Your 6-part posts (where you find the need to even quote yourself for commentary (??)) are starting to get a bit desperate and sad. Get over it.