o-din is gonna convert that Tron LE into 15 EMs.
I'm looking for nice examples of early 80s Bally pins, but I dunno, California is so huge, even if someone in The Bay offered me a deal I don't think I could hack that drive to get it.
You're a year early!
edit: lol too slow!
Get LOTR. It's just a straight up better game. And it has hard but obtainable goals, so you can feel like you "beat it" and then move it on if you want.
Quoted from o-din:
My daughter won't play the DMDs. She only likes the old EMs with the two inch flippers. Wonder where she gets that from.
My 7 year old daughter's favorite game is The Shadow. Only one in my collection she really plays, except for Abra Ca Dabra which is in my office, and not the garage.
On topic, sorry: This thread rules, what a great idea. Especially as there are people in more central CA who aren't super far from LA or The Bay, especially if you can meet someone half way.
Who hasn't driven an hour and a half for a pin?
Hey o-din I'm going to try and roll out with Kyle tomorrow, so hopefully see you then.
Edit: Shit, I guess it's already today, not tomorrow.
Quoted from o-din:
I want to thank Hana9so and Aurich for stopping by on Saturday and picking up Solar City. That helped free up a little cash and some space. It was a lot of fun. Too bad you guys couldn't stay a little longer, but you are welcome to come back and take the Big Daddy challenge anytime!
Oh I'm gonna get that 1000! My 849 isn't cutting it.
HEP is as HEP does.
Too rich for my blood, but it I was a filthy rich bastard I'd pay him all day long to do work for me.
As long as I was filthy rich I'd have a lot more space too, and there would be a whole wall of HEP 80s Ballys.
Did anyone get that super cheap Sinbad that was on CL last week? Looked like a good deal, but the pics weren't very clear.
I keep getting invited out to Banning to help out on the weekend, but I just don't have the time these days. But I'll definitely make it out for the actual expo if I don't go out earlier.
Quoted from Rarehero:
Crazy - I was just in a store yesterday, talking to the salesman….pinball came up in the conversation - and he said "Ya know what game I loved back in the day that I'd love to get - Klondike! Can you find me one of those!?". I told him I'd keep my eyes peeled.
You're just the man these days when it comes to hooking up random people with pinball favors!
My Metallica isn't going anywhere! But I know you're kinda feeling over it. I'll say this, RBION is a cool game, and it's not easy. The fact that you have to actually complete the modes, not just start them, to earn letters means it's no gimme.
RBION is about right, sometimes lower, FT feels right, Congo should be that, but for some reason people seem to think they can ask more than $3k for it now. I'm sure not buying at that price, maybe someone else is.
Quoted from chrisjens2:
Ok, has anyone used this person who advertises pinball repair? The ad sounds like a really good deal. He says he'll fix any issue plus complete shop out for $300. Also includes pickup and delivery!
It's gotta be better than whoever keeps running that "I FIXED PINBALL" ad.
Quoted from chrisjens2:
You can have your pick first, I'm not greedy. Plus I'm always at work and the deals go quick!
If I remember correctly, you wanted Medusa #1 or Fathom #2?
I'm actually just enjoying the hunt still, I need to get some more time on games. But yeah, Fathom and Medusa are definitely high on my interest list, I'd probably just grab one if an opportunity came along.
Until then I'll just keep an eye out. Still waiting for the right wedgehead to go next to my Abra Ca Dabra too, hoping to find a Centigrade 37, or possibly Jacks Open or Atlantis. Guess I'm in the mood for that era, mid 70s to early 80s.
Meanwhile Metallica still gets a ton of plan, so not looking to just live in the past.
I was in Murrieta recently, League play was at Belcito's house. He has some nice pins. About an hour and a drive from me though.
I do keep considering selling mine. I'll be honest though, I still have room for one more pin. I don't think I'm going to until I'm out of space and want something enough to give it up. I really do love owning it, I just don't play it as much lately, been either playing modern Sterns or EMs for a while.
Offer still open to come by and play it sometime though.
I am on the hunt for another pin, but in no real rush, waiting for the right game to come along. Don't want a pin just to get something new, want something I have some emotional attachment to. Maybe if I find that nice Fathom or Medusa or Centaur or something.
Quoted from RTS:
Posting the craigslist ad on pinside definitely provided greater exposure, and may have been the impetus for the seller knowing his pricing mistake. Not sure if posting the ad here was really helpful to pinsiders as much as it was to the seller.
Nah, that response (wasn't to me, I didn't try and get it) was from before being posted here.
Quoted from CactusJack:
Not in my opinion. One of their weakest offerings of the time.
Yeah, agreed, but any System 11 for $160 is a deal for sure still. Who knows what he actually got in the end though. I wasn't personally interested in it, and I'm at the point where I have to want the game to go get it, deal or not.
I guess we'll know soon if one of the flippers nabbed it, because it will show up for $1500+ with a Windex wipedown in a couple days if so.
What does good condition mean? Specifically the playfield wear.
Personally I wouldn't bother to LED it, it really doesn't add any value, and for a title like Sorcerer especially.
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:
I'm wedding dress shopping today though so you'll have to be patient
Every conservative's nightmare has come true! First we allowed gay marriage and now people are marrying their pinball machines!
Congrats, that's awesome.
You still holding onto that Flash Gordon?
I just closed the deal on the Flash Gordon, turns out I was the first to contact him. Seller is a collector friend of a friend, so I know he's a solid guy.
I'll probably keep it until I find another 1980 Bally I want more, like a Fathom or Medusa, but we'll see. Haven't even picked it up yet, so not going to plan the sale already.
lol, I just noticed you have my Sparky as your avatar.
Quoted from rotordave:
I got NimblePin here.
What!? I didn't know he was going to NZ. I can see the pants in the photo though, so I believe you!
I have to evaluate how much work it needs, I don't have a ton of restore time right now. We set up a time to look at it so I can make a call. If I pass it doesn't sound like he'll have any trouble finding someone who does.
rvdv is a great seller, and has some really crazy pins. You guys should pick up some of these games you don't see too often, some of them it might be your only chance. Never know!
Quoted from MrArt2u:
Buy it! It is one of my favorite pins in our collection! Stupid fun but still damn FUN!
When Kyle and I were there last time he loaded up the multiball on it, and then we cracked up as one after another the pin unloaded them, straight down the middle. He didn't get to flip at a single one.
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:
I'm a pretty busy dude at this point
You're all gonna get murdered by someone in a hockey mask at Camp Crystal Lake, so no point in stressing all the small stuff, right?
Did I tell you I picked up Flash Gordon? No need to take you up on your kind offer now. I want to know what all you have hiding in that storage unit though! I bet it's a pinball hoarder's paradise.
I'm surprised you still have that Strange World man, what happened to the people who were coming to see it?
Good lord, is that retarded Facebook shit coming here too? Why are you people downvoting that Echo Park post? You realize Adam was just shit stirring for no reason and that no one actually associated with the businesses in question is mad?
Quoted from jasonbar:
My Twilight Zone in Los Angeles: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-twilight-zone-bally-1993-2000
I love the game, but it's had some nagging electrical gremlins. I'm about to move, probably to a smaller home, so let's see if there's purchase interest. Can't take on a trade now. Will consider discussing a loan/repair arrangement if you can work out the kinks & want to hold it for a while while you do so...until I've settled in a new home.
lol. I was actually offering up Kyle as the guy to do the fixing, since there's nothing on a WPC he can't get working.
Is Atlantis still acting up? I could probably get it up and running, but now that I'm on Alien I don't have much in the way of pin tinkering time.
Quoted from jay:
I'm assuming this is talking about the Corona or Lake Elsinore flippers. I got what I thought was a very fair trade (A nice enough cftbl for a flawless huo johnny and $400) from one of them... maybe David?
I don't have a personal problem with the brothers. The other one? Yeah ...
Quoted from Jvspin:
To be fair to Lisa, she had if for sale here for quite a while before she finally let it go to the flipper.
To be doubly fair to Lisa she can sell her game to whoever she pleases. If she wants to call up Evan or David and say "take my game for $x?" and they say yes, it's no one's business but hers.
Quoted from Nintendoguy1982:
I'm def new to the whole pin thing as far as pricing goes. And it sucks for a lot of us trying to branch into this hobby especially since I'm way more familiar with arcades. Every time I see these pins on Craigslist for sooo much money and they still have issues or they are falsely advertised. I keep hearing about the pinball "Bubble" too. And the last thing I want to do is drop 4000 to 5000 on a machine that isn't gonna hold its value. Sounds like there are a few good guys in these forums though. So thanks for that.
People bitch about the price police, but it's actually pretty helpful to watch sales threads and get the general consensus on pin prices. The crowd tends to be pretty right.
I've hit capacity, can't fit another pin without letting one go.
I don't have any deals lined up at the moment, so not really feeling any pressure to sell anything, but there are some possibilities out there that are getting me to think about it. (Not Kiss! )
I'd probably look to move my Star Trek Premium if that happened. I bought it NIB, has my translite and decal package all installed, and a custom lightboard behind my translite that interacts with the game flashers etc. Also has a shaker motor installed. I have Zitt's pop caps, but haven't installed them yet.
I'll make a real sale thread later if I actually need to move it with more urgency, but in the meantime just throwing it out on this thread if anyone's looking for one. Shoot me a PM if you want to chat or check it out or anything.
Quoted from o-din:
Same here! With the announcement of the new Kiss, I get the feeling that a new Ted Nugent machine with ten of his greatest tracks is just around the corner. It never hurts to be ready....
I'm definitely not looking to invest in any new games. I might have a lead on an ACDC, that would work, can't think of anything newer that I'd put money into right now.
Heh. I've slowed down on my collecting, but I still pick up figures sometimes. My wife just bought me the Black Series Jabba from Comic-Con after I complained that the store version got totally gimped by leaving out all the extras. Have to find a spot for him.
I have some interest in Star Trek, I have to actually decided what I'm willing to let it go for. Probably should have done that before I posted.
I have to side with the No Fun Police™, this is a really useful thread, that's stayed on topic and helped a lot of people, and I'd personally prefer it didn't get swamped with useless band posts.
Quoted from bicyclenut:
I just bought a Abra Ca Dabra and feel I scored a great deal, but needs a little work
Did you buy Kyle's Abra Ca Dabra with the faded backglass? That one was in pretty good shape, minus the missing red.
I highly recommend the Webb Abra Ca Dabra backglass if you're looking for a new one, looks awesome. Have it in my machine.
Looks like I might be selling my Scared Stiff, working on a deal now that puts me over capacity. It's a clean game, was restored at one point by Treasure Cove. Has some minor flaws, but nothing major. Tasteful LEDs, all the major mods like the dancing boogie slings with the real floppy puppets, not the crap new ones, lit skull pile, backboard graphic, glow in the dark plastics (have the originals too), and a really nice high-end custom eyeball shooter that I made. Minor fade on the sides of the red, but not too bad.
Oh, and of course has the ColorDMD installed, can't forget that. One of the best ones they've done so far IMHO, looks awesome.
Probably going to put up a for sale thread in a bit, and list it at $6k, but if anyone local is interested before that shoot me a PM.
Wish I had more space, love owning it, but I'm just not playing it, and I'm at the point where every game has to justify the space it takes up.
Quoted from wonderpuddle:
Hey man, good luck with the sale. I'll be watching closely to see what the current market value of SS is, as I may eventually sell my own Scared Stiff (or maybe Champion Pub) to free up space if Spooky announces a Rob Zombie pin or if I decide I have to have a Big Lebowski once they start shipping.
Great game. But I get having to let things go. I just sold my Pinball Magic after swearing for 15 years I'd never let her go, but she was getting less play than everything else I have right now.
Yeah, I hear you. It's probably the most beautiful pin I own. It's got an amazing, interactive, multilayered backbox. The sound is probably the best in pinball, as far as most awesome custom callouts in a game. Humor, awesome horror theme that matches awesome art. It's just full of pinball class, represents an entire era to me. I really do love it.
But I want to be the kind of collector who plays his games, not hordes them away to enjoy looking at. So if I'm not playing it, then I probably need to consider letting it go. I loaned it to rarehero for a couple months, and I took his Monster Bash. Was a good test to see if I'd miss it, because now that it's back, I'm still not really playing it.
I'm having trouble letting go of Scared Stiff. Going to delay posting a sale thread for now. If you're interested you can PM me, but going to hold off on actively selling it. But, I do have to let something go, out of space.
So I'm going to list my Sky Jump soon. I have a little over $700 into it, but I'm going to just ask the flat $700. Couple pinprick flakes on the backglass, but it's really nice otherwise and already sealed I believe. Playfield is really clean except for the minor wear around the black keylines on the inserts that all EMs have. Obviously all working like clockwork.
Apron has the original webbing, which is pretty sweet. I put brand new legs on it after I bought it, old ones were rusted crap.
I'll take some pictures later, but if anyone is looking for a sweet wedgehead lemme know.
Quoted from cleland:
Aurich, that is tempting and I've been wanting to add an EM/Wedgehead to my lineup but the timing is not good.
Hobby is all about timing right? Rob had wanted it if I was every going to sell it, but he's bought too many games recently.
It's a great game, doubt I'll have too much trouble moving it.
Just had a call about Sky Jump, I'm holding it for a friend who's going to try and look at it by middle of next week. So he's got first dibs now, if he passes for any reason I'll update. Until then I have the guard cats on duty.
Quoted from rolandthoms:
if you’re coming to CAX or are in the SF bay area, i have a whitewater (WH20) i may consider letting go. Would sell for a little less than i bought it. $4800. PM if interested. I would rather you come take a look (rather than post pictures). Color DMD. Just bought all new mountains (one was broken)
Dang, that didn't last long!
This is the CA thread, no need for drama. Everyone have a hit of this blend of Girl Scout Cookies Platinum and Sour Diesel, sit back for a moment, and imagine that you live in Kansas for a minute. (Sorry Kansas.) Breathe in.
Now exhale, look around, and realize you live in the best place in the world, fucked up and warted and all. You have to be half insane to stay here, but you're definitely too crazy to want to live anywhere else.
Let people cast their nets, work their deals, and don't throw salt in their game. Just no need. Buyers and sellers will work it out, and everyone will have something they wanted, and it's not going to affect you in any real way.
I'm gonna go play Tron and Flash Gordon, because I feel like having my ass kicked repeatedly and then asking for more.
If anyone knows where I can buy a Medusa let me know. Or if anyone is interested in trading for a nice Abra Ca Dabra, new plastics and backglass, repainted cabinet, clean playfield, with cash as needed on top. If I don't trade it then I'll offer it up for sale if I find my Medusa, but a couple people have dibs I think.
Thanks man. I know that one, he's in Denver, he's listed it for sale here. Unfortunately he also wants $2200 for it, which will be $2600 with shipping, and that's steep for a Medusa, not to mention one that I can't examine in person from a seller I don't know.
I can be patient. I have a possible lead, but until it either pans out or happens I'll just keep hunting inside CA. Appreciate the heads up though!
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:
Really Gang, Cute. To much time in cyberspace. It's called caps lock, oops. That bored?
If you're going to try and sell people a $5k Fish Tales you might not want to act grumpy and confrontational, just saying. Your prices are on the ridiculous side, so starting fights isn't going to do you any favors.
If a Mati Hari comes up in SoCal I might not be able to resist it just to stick my Silver Bullet backglass in it and pretend.
Quoted from RobertWinter:
I don't think you can do that. I believe they moved the score displays on Silver Bullet to better accommodate the artwork.
But I'd love to do the same thing. I really wish Silver Bullet was a kit conversion...
Right, they're low down now, I'd have to convert the Mathi Hari backbox. But that's not a huge deal, just drilling new holes and relocating displays and wiring.
Nothing like a little snarky note on CL! Let's be honest though, you're not moving a Data East Star War "fast" @ $3600.
Quoted from frogman70:
What would anyone else on here do?
That's easy, just ignore it. Someone making a bitching fake ad on Craigslist means nothing to anyone. Either they want your Star Wars pin or they don't. I think you priced it maybe a little high, but the photos show it really nice and clean, so maybe it just means waiting for the right collector. I just don't see $3600 as a "fast sale". Doesn't mean you're trying to rip anyone off.
Personally though I think the DE Star Wars doesn't really have a ton of collector appeal, as in to Star Wars fans, not pinball people. Speaking as a Star Wars collector myself the biggest turnoff is the horrible fake MIDI music.
So you're kind of left with trying to sell a nice Data East pin. That can take time, the brand doesn't make people jump. All there is to it.
Quoted from Saleen42:
Looking to pick up an em pinball in SoCal
What do you have?
That's pretty vague, any more details? Price range? Single player or multiplayer? This is your first post, so kind of assuming you're new to pinball. Let us know what you're working with and we can help you out.
Quoted from Eskaybee:
hah, that reminds me of when i told Rare Hero my working hours. He's like you wake up at 4:30....in the morning!?! WTF is wrong with you. lol.
yea, i go to bed at 9:30pm. is that freakishly early too?
All I know is when Jay left it was 9:30pm and the other people had to be kicked out at 2am.
I'm at my desk by 7:30am, so it's not like I have late morning starts. But I have trouble going to bed before midnight, have to generally force it when I really need to.
Quoted from frogman70:
I agree but if u tell me one thing and hours later do the opposite, In my book you have no honor.
It's not about whether or not you were justified. You called him names. Now he's retaliating. There's no mystery here. Cause and effect.
Everyone has had sellers flake on them. It's lame but it happens.
Quoted from rotordave:
We will be going to 82 on Thursday night after 8 sometime, if anyone wants to come along for some beersies and pinball. I believe some "nimble folk" may be heading up from the OC (subject to work schedule etc...)
I'll come out if I have time, but I'll see you and Molly and Nimble at Expo if not!
Quoted from krazy53:
Me and a buddy are driving down from Napa (Northern California) to the Anaheim area (So Cal) next Friday (October 16th) and have an enclosed trailor and can transport 3-4 pins down. We have blankets, straps and wrap. If you need transport let me know.
Nice offer! Unless MrBellMan gets desperate enough to sell me his Medusa I don't need it, but maybe someone else does, so thumbs up.
Quoted from MrBellMan:
Close to desperate... You never know.
If you actually get desperate I'll give you buyback rights on anything.
Quoted from RobertWinter:
A Medusa you say? Hmm...
I've missed out on 3 so far, one of these days I'll grab it. Have to sell my Fireball II to make space, one Bally in, on Bally out sounds about right though.
Quoted from m34est:
I would love to have this pin, but the wife gave a firm "no". Someone needs to buy this quick to remove my temptation -- and maybe sell it to me when you are done with it.
If Jay gets it you'll probably see it back up for sale in a bit when he's done with it, he likes to rotate his pins. Unless he's really attached to that one I guess.
Quoted from practicalsteve:
Guess I wont be playing it there this year!
You never know, if he doesn't sell it locally before then I bet he takes it up to PAGG to move it.
Kyle's games are always super clean though, he's someone you can actually trust when he says "shopped" so it might not last that long.
Quoted from Delta9:
This radical is very clean sat under a blanket for 20 years then i went ape shit on it very fun pin custom leds through out inner mirrors pinball refinery flashers interactive under cab lighting plus speakers flame polished ramps cleanest radical ive ever seen complety rebuilt flippers flipper bats superbands new glass new rubbers custom shooter led skateboard wheel that spins not installed but i have it few more mods
No fade or nicks scratches cab is mint
Haha, I'd love to play it. That's not my personal style, if I bought your game I'd make it look stock again, but I bet it's fun to play with it going nuts.
But the price of re-doing the LEDs + shipping just puts it too out of reach. Good luck man, if you were local I'd be tempted!
I'm probably going to take Karl's EBD, which means I'll be listing my Fireball II. Repainted cabinet, flawless backglass, playfield is pretty clean, no wear. Come by and play it. Moving center post, multiball, speech, drop targets, one of the more rare early Bally solid states, you know you want to help me make room.
I'll take more pics and document it but if you're interested let me know. $1300, but open to offers.
More volunteers in Banning would be super helpful. I was just out there last weekend, we got a lot done. More to do still though!
Quoted from iwantansi:
I'm a little torn on the whole volunteering thing...
On one hand, its totally awesome that there is this great collection of games that is available for us to play.
On the other hand, they're getting free skilled labor... and then charging the public to come in and play games... its a business thats asking people to work for free(you may get free/reduced entrance fee).
I hear you. But just some quick facts:
1) Anyone who is volunteering isn't paying to get in, and can bring a plus one.
2) Right now they're operating at a loss, the goal is just to get to the break even point, so that they can keep it sustained, and share the collection with everyone.
I get your points. But where else can you visit a collection like that? When we were out working last weekend we probably got 15 games back up and running. If more people could come out and help like that we'd make a serious dent in the work. And everyone would benefit from playing them.
At some point I'm going to sell my Mystic, Eight Ball Deluxe, and Medusa. I really enjoy them all, but with limited space I'll probably move on from my early Bally stage. But Flash Gordon? That one is staying.
Quoted from doomid:
i just make all efforts to buy games at a food price
Buy Costco sell Whole Foods eh?
Everyone loves to buy low and sell high. Plenty of people do it. But this is a friendly thread, where we keep things in the community. We all know $1900 for an incomplete HMM isn't a good price. No need to get all worked up about it, but come on. You don't know where to get the other mirror blade? No one does, there isn't a stack of NOS HMM mirror blades sitting around. It's a novelty game that's fun to own for the cheese factor, and that's all there is to it. It sells for an according price.
Keep it positive folks!
Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:
Issue is, California is the size of Sweden and you are located on the opposite side of it from me If the price is right I can do Pilot Air Port-Port if you can strap it down on a pallet.
This goes for anyone I guess... But the price needs to be right in order for me to justify the shipping on this one.
I used the guy who does trips up and down the state, was $175 door to door.
I'm actually trying to cut back to 8 for now, the space for 2 I have in my office is being turned into candy cab space.
Of course I'm cheating, since two of my pins are out on loan to other locations.
Quoted from ibjames:
I'm having a hard time with the forums, is there a CA thread that isn't afor sale thread? Also, I'm looking at making a first purchase, Dredd or Demolition man? The left side of demolition man is useless right?
Just bring this thread back to life:
The real question is why isn't Stern just replacing the bad ones? They did it for things like the Metallica magnet board. Rob, call your distributor, and see what they can work out with Stern. They should make it right, you have a new game, you shouldn't have any issues selling it, Stern needs to fix it if there's an issue.
Help the guy out instead of creating drama folks. Anyone know if there's a service bulletin or anything from Stern? Is this just hearsay or is it documented somewhere?
IMHO Fathom and Centaur are overpriced games. They're the Monster Bash of the Bally solid states, wonderful art and theme, lots of fun, and not worth the money for the gameplay. They're collector games.
But, that said, they go for the prices they do because people will pay it. If you want one that's what they cost. Centaur is probably the last Bally SS that I'd still like to own that I haven't yet, but I doubt I'll ever pony up that kind of cash for one.
Good luck with the sale Robert, sure someone will bite.
Quoted from fireball2:
What he said. The sounds on Centaur get old fast also. That said, a super shweet one is prolly worth 3K+ in this day and age.
Eh, I love the sounds, it's part of the appeal. It is what it is, it's a great looking pin, with art like nothing else, and it's a good player, if not the best of the era. It's just that it's a collector's game, and that comes with collector prices. I spent a little over $2k to get my nice Medusa, I don't mind paying for quality games and I love Bally solid states. But that's my personal ceiling for games of that era, because I play my games, not just display them.
Plenty of people having higher ceilings than I do, it will sell.
Quoted from Squeakman:
Aurich, how are you liking you Medusa? I piked one up cheap and shopped it, but it needs some work and I can't play it just yet. I'm already thinking about trying to trade it for a Flash Gordon.
It's a very cool pin, but it's honestly a bit of a "gimmick" game. Quirky rules, different layout, great art, it's more in that same collector realm really compared to Flash Gordon, which is IMHO one of the best solid states of all time.
My Medusa is in really nice shape. Super clean playfield with mylar removed, it's a looker and I do enjoy that part of it. But I'll probably move it at some point because the pins I don't play a lot don't earn their keep, I'm not a museum.
Right now in Bally solid states I own Medusa, Flash Gordon, Mystic, and Eight Ball Deluxe. Flash Gordon would be the last to go. Centaur I think is the only remaining one I'd like to have, but the price is just hard to swallow as I said. As much as I love the early solid states they don't have the depth and value of DMD games, so once you're in that price point it's hard to stick with older titles if you're a player.
Quoted from mann0mann:
Trying to use that to supplement what I can't play locally. Not sure if that's a good idea or not?
Great idea, just keep it mind it's nothing like the real thing, and way easier. But for learning rules it's great.
Getaway can be found for $2k no problem, but you're going to get a routed game with some wear and insert ghosting etc if all the ones I've seen at that price are any indication. Cosmetic stuff only.