(Topic ID: 277423)

Official Avengers Infinity Quest owners thread. "Pinsiders Assemble!"

By CoolCatPinball

3 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 12,640 posts
  • 927 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 hours ago by Thot
  • Topic is favorited by 388 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Of the Avengers featured on the inserts, who is your favorite?”

  • Hulk 139 votes
    21%
  • Iron Man 126 votes
    19%
  • Captain America 75 votes
    11%
  • Black Widow 51 votes
    8%
  • Thor 71 votes
    11%
  • Black Panther 35 votes
    5%
  • None of those weakling, THANOS! 157 votes
    24%

(654 votes)

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#6501 2 years ago

Is there some kind of setting that makes the disc easier to spin? I have been grinding away at this game taking about 10-20 full rotations to unlock anything. I went to my friends house and played his premium and you barely had to rotate the thing to unlock it or start the reality gem battle. I can’t find anything in the settings, maybe I have a failing switch or something?

#6502 2 years ago
Quoted from Aniraf:

Is there some kind of setting that makes the disc easier to spin?

I believe it uses some sort of proximity sensor to count a rotation, maybe that needs to be adjusted? I'm not sure of the proper way to do that though. I thought I may have seen something explaining it but I cant seem to find it.

#6503 2 years ago
Quoted from shaub:

I believe it uses some sort of proximity sensor to count a rotation, maybe that needs to be adjusted? I'm not sure of the proper way to do that though. I thought I may have seen something explaining it but I cant seem to find it.

Yeah, it is really weird. I am scrutinizing it now. It seems to get more letters the slower it spins. If I rip it, there is a good chance I won’t even get one letter. I might have to mess around with it or email Pablo.

#6504 2 years ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-avengers-infinity-quest-owners-thread-pinsiders-assemble/page/37#post-5924744

check out this post or search for "sensor" in this thread, a handful of posts relating to the disc and sensor have come up before. I dont believe mine is centred but I havent noticed any problems.

#6505 2 years ago
Quoted from Aniraf:

Yeah, it is really weird. I am scrutinizing it now. It seems to get more letters the slower it spins. If I rip it, there is a good chance I won’t even get one letter. I might have to mess around with it or email Pablo.

Look at page 3 of this pdf to see the disk adjustment procedure. (Click the picture to open the 3 page pdf)

Spinning Disc Adjustment.pdfSpinning Disc Adjustment.pdf
#6506 2 years ago
Quoted from awesome1:

Look at page 3 of this pdf to see the disk adjustment procedure. (Click the picture to open the 3 page pdf)
[quoted image]

Perfect, I’ll check tomorrow. Ty for all the help everyone!

#6507 2 years ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Random question about strategy: If you get a super jackpot in Black Order MB and then at some point after that use the Soul Gem to keep BOMB going do you have to get another super JP to avoid losing the Soul Gem or does the first SJP you get mean you won’t lose it if you don’t get another SJP?

Finally got round to downloading latest code and gave it a whirl last night.

I had earned the Soul Gem and then reached BOmb. Drained down to 1 ball, and while the grace timer was counting down used the Action button for an the add a ball. Then managed to make the SJp but when I drained down to single ball play I had lost the Soul Gem (got it back by completing Battle Royale).

On the same game I activated the change gems late in the game (I had 5 gems) as the ball came from the side ramp it jumped the up-post (Pro). As I was trying to both keep the ball alive and place the gems where I wanted I ran out of time. When I got control back of the ball I looked to see where the gems had been placed and the Time Gem was nowhere on the playfield, and there were 2 unlit shots.
I then lit, started (It only offered me that mode as an option) and completed the last gem mode and when I came to place it there were 2 available spaces.
After placing it, I then got Battle Thanos lit - which awarded 1,000,000 indicating that all 6 gems were indeed collected.
What happened to my Time gem in that interim period?

#6508 2 years ago
Quoted from WJxxxx:

Finally got round to downloading latest code and gave it a whirl last night.
I had earned the Soul Gem and then reached BOmb. Drained down to 1 ball, and while the grace timer was counting down used the Action button for an the add a ball. Then managed to make the SJp but when I drained down to single ball play I had lost the Soul Gem (got it back by completing Battle Royale).
On the same game I activated the change gems late in the game (I had 5 gems) as the ball came from the side ramp it jumped the up-post (Pro). As I was trying to both keep the ball alive and place the gems where I wanted I ran out of time. When I got control back of the ball I looked to see where the gems had been placed and the Time Gem was nowhere on the playfield, and there were 2 unlit shots.
I then lit, started (It only offered me that mode as an option) and completed the last gem mode and when I came to place it there were 2 available spaces.
After placing it, I then got Battle Thanos lit - which awarded 1,000,000 indicating that all 6 gems were indeed collected.
What happened to my Time gem in that interim period?

A couple quick thoughts, and my apologies if you thought of these already....just the first things to come to mind.

Are you sure you collected the Super Jackpot on Black Order and not just a Jackpot? This one definitely confused me at first. I finally managed to hit the upper loop shoot and thought I had it. Nope, that's just the jackpot. After that you have to spell strange, PLUS hit the Captain America shot to get the Super Jackpot. I find this sequence almost impossible to do during a multiball as it requires either dumb luck, or some really good flipper staging skills to pull off. I'm sure better players than me can do it regularly, but I think I have only gotten an actual Super once in all the time I have owned it, and I'd like to think I'm not a completely terrible player.

As for the Time Gem, it sounds like you might have found a bug (edited my reply about this after re-reading your post and realizing you had 2 available placement spaces on your last gem...weird).

#6509 2 years ago

I brainstormed a few adjustments that I think the game could use, what are your thoughts?

1. Add an adjustment for "Lose Gems Permanently: Yes/No". This would keep the same core gameplay where the stones reside with the black order or thanos if you lose them, but allow you to do the gem quest again to try for it more times.

2. Add difficulty adjustments for each of the gem quests. On an easier setting, these adjustments would reduce the number of shot sequences you have to do in the gem quests, or open up more shots that do damage. An alternative to this would be to add in a feature like "Upgrade" on GotG that when activated turns on more shots that count toward completion. Maybe that could be tied in with levelling avengers?

3. Since the Avengers are a team, add a real co-op mode where everyone of the human players are trying to collect the same set of gems against thanos. Right now the social aspects of the game seem very focused on competition and not really on the social aspect as much.

I'm fully expecting the "play better" argument, but the singular focus on the competition aspect of the machine takes it to an unfortunate level. Arguments that say this would take dev time they don't have, etc... aren't really valid because they can spend the time to add harder difficulties, why can't they add easier ones?

#6510 2 years ago

Those are not bad ideas.
What I do not like about the game is the possibility of choosing which gems you want to get first.

To me this makes the game repetitive because I would try to work and practice on a specific gem and try to build a strategy.
It takes all the randomness of the game away, because the only way to build a strategy is by practicing to see if it works.

Now the game adds to layers to it, gem selection and gem placement.

This means that someone more experienced, will find shortcuts or better strategies = boring and unfair. It is like knowing the answers before taking a exam.

Modes should be random, not selectable.

This will make each play different! fought in random orders and not in an order that can be selected by the player= random, fair and fun
I think the only input should give is the gem location, and that is already excessive.

Everything else is too much. The game is overly complicated and its repetitiveness in search of a ‘strategy’ is something I am not interested in when I play pinball.

The game needs more randomness in my opinion. It tries too hard to be a ‘make your own adventure’ but it actually backgires making it very repetitive and predictable.

Get 2 gems, get soul gem, defend gem, rinse and repeat.

At the moment it is my least played pin and I only have 2. I find Stranger Things to be leaps and bounds more fun.

I will probably put it on the chopping board soon if the next Stern is a title I like.

#6511 2 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

A couple quick thoughts, and my apologies if you thought of these already....just the first things to come to mind.
Are you sure you collected the Super Jackpot on Black Order and not just a Jackpot? This one definitely confused me at first. I finally managed to hit the upper loop shoot and thought I had it. Nope, that's just the jackpot. After that you have to spell strange, PLUS hit the Captain America shot to get the Super Jackpot. I find this sequence almost impossible to do during a multiball as it requires either dumb luck, or some really good flipper staging skills to pull off. I'm sure better players than me can do it regularly, but I think I have only gotten an actual Super once in all the time I have owned it, and I'd like to think I'm not a completely terrible player.
As for the Time Gem, it sounds like you might have found a bug (edited my reply about this after re-reading your post and realizing you had 2 available placement spaces on your last gem...weird).

It was definitely the SJP.

FWIW I think completing Black Order is far harder than completing Battle Royale (I can't recall a time when I haven't completed BR having got to it). Having to hit the side ramp for the JP to even light the disc for spins is tricky enough in mb, then to have to hit the tight CA shot can be so frustrating - especially as you can't use the mind gem on it.

#6512 2 years ago
Quoted from WJxxxx:

Finally got round to downloading latest code and gave it a whirl last night.
I had earned the Soul Gem and then reached BOmb. Drained down to 1 ball, and while the grace timer was counting down used the Action button for an the add a ball. Then managed to make the SJp but when I drained down to single ball play I had lost the Soul Gem (got it back by completing Battle Royale).
On the same game I activated the change gems late in the game (I had 5 gems) as the ball came from the side ramp it jumped the up-post (Pro). As I was trying to both keep the ball alive and place the gems where I wanted I ran out of time. When I got control back of the ball I looked to see where the gems had been placed and the Time Gem was nowhere on the playfield, and there were 2 unlit shots.
I then lit, started (It only offered me that mode as an option) and completed the last gem mode and when I came to place it there were 2 available spaces.
After placing it, I then got Battle Thanos lit - which awarded 1,000,000 indicating that all 6 gems were indeed collected.
What happened to my Time gem in that interim period?

Yeah neither of those scenarios make much sense. Seems like you should have kept your Soul Gem for making the super and it's odd that there were two spots unlit but it still apparently somehow had kept track of you possessing the other gem since it gave you the 1B bonus. Did you happen to see if all the gems were lit at the bottom of the screen? Might be good to send an e-mail to Stern's bug report so they can check it out. Well done getting the gems and 1B bonus though!!!

#6513 2 years ago

Co-op could be implemented in some interesting ways. I know it's more Dwight's style than Keith's, but a character selection could add an interesting twist, even if only in a co-op mode. Have the collectible Avengers be the character choices. Maybe have the one you picked start automatically leveled up to "collected" (or some different minor perk each). Other players would have to pick different characters. Would add some different strategy to what gems you go after when, and how to place them.

As for the complaint of too much freedom of choice and placement, I respect your opinion, but personally disagree. I love trying out different strategies and the intricate ways the gems can work together and with different Avenger levels. That said, you can absolutely play the game the way you describe. The first gem that comes up in the selection screen is always random. Just hit the button and play that one without choosing. That way you can get the randomness you desire. Heck, when I'm just playing around, I end up doing that a lot and it keeps me from always playing a certain order. Placement is still your choice, but if you just go with the flow and let it hit whatever it's going to hit, you can get the randomness you desire. Just a thought! That said, every game isn't for everyone, and if the more randomness of Stranger Things is more your style, that's totally understandable. I love that game too. Maybe check out BK:SoR...that has a similar randomness to which monster you will battle each mode. Good stuff.

#6514 2 years ago
Quoted from WJxxxx:

It was definitely the SJP.
FWIW I think completing Black Order is far harder than completing Battle Royale (I can't recall a time when I haven't completed BR having got to it). Having to hit the side ramp for the JP to even light the disc for spins is tricky enough in mb, then to have to hit the tight CA shot can be so frustrating - especially as you can't use the mind gem on it.

I thought you were supposed to be able to use mind gem on the BOMB super. There was a note in the 1.00 code Read Me that said: "Black Order Multiball - fixed an issue where Mind Gem would not spot Super Jackpot shot".

I haven't been able to pull it off yet, but I've been trying to play so I have Mind Gem at Level 1 when I get to BOMB so I can use it on the inner loop JP and the the CA SJP. But I always seem to overshoot and get Mind Gem to Level 2 or I drain and it goes back down to collected right as I'm about to start it (and I can't seem to power it up again to Level 1 without hitting it into the hole accidentally before I get it back to L1). So I guess if Mind Gem isn't really available to collect the SJP I need a new plan

#6515 2 years ago

Has anyone changed the flipper coils out for something stronger? Any recommendations? I have them turned up all the way and they seem a little weak.

Love this pin. Its not leaving my collection.

#6516 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Those are not bad ideas.
What I do not like about the game is the possibility of choosing which gems you want to get first.
To me this makes the game repetitive because I would try to work and practice on a specific gem and try to build a strategy.
It takes all the randomness of the game away, because the only way to build a strategy is by practicing to see if it works.
Now the game adds to layers to it, gem selection and gem placement.
This means that someone more experienced, will find shortcuts or better strategies = boring and unfair. It is like knowing the answers before taking a exam.
Modes should be random, not selectable.
This will make Each different and the gems should be fought in random orders and not in an order that can be selected by the player.
I think the only input should give is the gem location, and that is already excessive.
Everything else is too much. The game is overly complicated and its repetitiveness in search of a ‘strategy’ is something I am not interested in when I play pinball.
The game needs more randomness in my opinion. It tries too hard to be a ‘mke your own adventure’ but it actually makes it very repetitive and predictable.
Get 2 gems, get soul gem, defend gem, rinse and repeat.
At the moment it is my least played pin and I only have 2. I find Stranger Things to be leaps and bounds more fun.
I will probably put it on the chopping board soon if the next Stern is a title I like.

I see what you're saying but I think it's all in how each person approaches it, and I think the good thing about the game is that it can be played many different ways by different people with no real wrong answer in what strategy to use. I fall into the habit of trying to get Mind Gem first, but I like to play it in single ball play and save my portal locks to use on other gems. So if I end up having a portal lock for my first gem quest I switch it up and go for a different gem instead.

Lately I've started to sprinkle in going for the Captain Marvel binary multiplier more, and also placing the power or reality gem on CM and using it in combos. I've also started to let balls drain at the start of multiball and use manual plunge to get them into the pops to build up the Captain America level.

But yes it's very easy to fall into a habit of trying to play the game the same way every time. That's just human nature. But in the past couple weeks I've had a lot of games over 600M (including two over 1B) where I didn't even make it to Battle Royal and used different strategies so I think there are a lot of ways to approach it.

#6517 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

What I do not like about the game is the possibility of choosing which gems you want to get first.

To me this makes the game repetitive because I would try to work and practice on a specific gem and try to build a strategy.
It takes all the randomness of the game away

Yeah, this nags at me too. I do appreciate that it seems to select a random quest when you start one? So if you don't look at the screen and just hit the button you can at least get something random. I find I enjoy the game much more when I take whatever random gem it defaults to rather than choosing my own, because if I do I end up choosing the exact same gems and playing the same modes with the same positionings every time

Quoted from EaglePin:

But yes it's very easy to fall into a habit of trying to play the game the same way every time. That's just human nature. But in the past couple weeks I've had a lot of games over 600M (including two over 1B) where I didn't even make it to Battle Royal and used different strategies so I think there are a lot of ways to approach it.

There are different ways to approach it, but for a single person's playstyle, whatever it may be, I feel like they're always going to get stuck in some 'optimal' (for them) path of how they try to play it. The game could do more to prevent that, it's not just some unfightable aspect of human nature.

#6518 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Those are not bad ideas.
What I do not like about the game is the possibility of choosing which gems you want to get first.
To me this makes the game repetitive because I would try to work and practice on a specific gem and try to build a strategy.
It takes all the randomness of the game away, because the only way to build a strategy is by practicing to see if it works.
Now the game adds to layers to it, gem selection and gem placement.
This means that someone more experienced, will find shortcuts or better strategies = boring and unfair. It is like knowing the answers before taking a exam.
Modes should be random, not selectable.
This will make Each different and the gems should be fought in random orders and not in an order that can be selected by the player.
I think the only input should give is the gem location, and that is already excessive.
Everything else is too much. The game is overly complicated and its repetitiveness in search of a ‘strategy’ is something I am not interested in when I play pinball.
The game needs more randomness in my opinion. It tries too hard to be a ‘mke your own adventure’ but it actually makes it very repetitive and predictable.
Get 2 gems, get soul gem, defend gem, rinse and repeat.
At the moment it is my least played pin and I only have 2. I find Stranger Things to be leaps and bounds more fun.
I will probably put it on the chopping board soon if the next Stern is a title I like.

I partially agree with the sentiment behind what you're saying, but there are so many tutorial videos from top players out there who have already done the ground work to find the 'optimal' point scoring strategy that you don't have to put in the hours to trial them all yourself.

The same could be said for many games, GoT & WPT stand out for me in that players select the same strategy as each other the majority of the times. Personally I don't follow these routes at all when I play them.

By making the selection of modes random, I think it would actually hinder the casual player, rather than helping them. Those people with the time or access to a machine could put the time in to learn the optimal strategy for whatever mode comes up and in whatever order - rather than currently only learning a single strategy they are comfortable with in a limited time.

I also disagree that more experienced players who find better strategies makes it unfair on others. Is it unfair if I practice more than you to become better?

IMHO there is nothing worse than not having a choice and being forced to play whatever mode is forced upon me, in whatever game I'm playing, but we all have our own opinions.

#6519 2 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

Co-op could be implemented in some interesting ways. I know it's more Dwight's style than Keith's, but a character selection could add an interesting twist, even if only in a co-op mode. Have the collectible Avengers be the character choices. Maybe have the one you picked start automatically leveled up to "collected" (or some different minor perk each). Other players would have to pick different characters. Would add some different strategy to what gems you go after when, and how to place them.

Seems like co-op might even work well enough without needing each player to select a character. Just make it so all gem possession and placement carries over to each player from ball to ball and that could be fun enough for progressing through it.

#6520 2 years ago
Quoted from Jecco74:

Has anyone changed the flipper coils out for something stronger? Any recommendations? I have them turned up all the way and they seem a little weak.
Love this pin. Its not leaving my collection.

Maybe try waxing your playfield. I'd played it a ton but it was the first time I'd waxed this machine and I was blown away at how much faster the game was afterwards. Also of course try lowering pitch if you have it set way up.

#6521 2 years ago
Quoted from WJxxxx:

I partially agree with the sentiment behind what you're saying, but there are so many tutorial videos from top players out there who have already done the ground work to find the 'optimal' point scoring strategy that you don't have to put in the hours to trial them all yourself.
The same could be said for many games, GoT & WPT stand out for me in that players select the same strategy as each other the majority of the times. Personally I don't follow these routes at all when I play them.
By making the selection of modes random, I think it would actually hinder the casual player, rather than helping them. Those people with the time or access to a machine could put the time in to learn the optimal strategy for whatever mode comes up and in whatever order - rather than currently only learning a single strategy they are comfortable with in a limited time.
I also disagree that more experienced players who find better strategies makes it unfair on others. Is it unfair if I practice more than you to become better?
IMHO there is nothing worse than not having a choice and being forced to play whatever mode is forced upon me, in whatever game I'm playing, but we all have our own opinions.

that is exactly my point.
I am not interested in following other peoples strategy, that not only makes the point of selecting a path moot but makes it boring as you tend to repeat the same path over and over.

Putting the hours to become better can be done and should be done like it always has been done in pinball, with skill and ball control by following the games randomness and not by manually triggering a sequence through an options menu that could lead to bigger rewards in a shorter ball time.

This puts a less experienced player at a huge disadvantage and it has nothing to do with actual pinball skill, it is simply exploiting the scoring system through the ruleset and taking the easiest path or better strategy. To me, manually selecting modes is the equivalent of removing the glass and pushing switches with my fingers.

It is not fair unless all players know the strategies available and that is not what pinball is about.

Pinball should be an approachable game that can be learned in matter of minutes/hours, not months.

#6522 2 years ago
Quoted from Jecco74:

Has anyone changed the flipper coils out for something stronger? Any recommendations? I have them turned up all the way and they seem a little weak.
Love this pin. Its not leaving my collection.

Get the pinmonk flipper fan kit. It fixes this problem. The coils get hot after a few games and lose power, the fans keep the coil cool.

#6523 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Yeah, this nags at me too. I do appreciate that it seems to select a random quest when you start one? So if you don't look at the screen and just hit the button you can at least get something random. I find I enjoy the game much more when I take whatever random gem it defaults to rather than choosing my own, because if I do I end up choosing the exact same gems and playing the same modes with the same positionings every time

There are different ways to approach it, but for a single person's playstyle, whatever it may be, I feel like they're always going to get stuck in some 'optimal' (for them) path of how they try to play it. The game could do more to prevent that, it's not just some unfightable aspect of human nature.

Yep I agree players will gravitate toward a path that fits their play style, but I think the good thing about this game is that it offers choices and variety that accommodate a really wide range of styles so a lot of players can enjoy it however they want to attack it. No game is going to appeal to 100% of players. I think the best thing a game can do is give players a variety of good, fun choices for what to go after with balanced scoring so that it's really up to the player to choose how to proceed. The variety & choices are there if they want them and if they don't want them then they can play it the same way each time and there isn't anything wrong with that either.

#6524 2 years ago
Quoted from WJxxxx:

Finally got round to downloading latest code and gave it a whirl last night.
I had earned the Soul Gem and then reached BOmb. Drained down to 1 ball, and while the grace timer was counting down used the Action button for an the add a ball. Then managed to make the SJp but when I drained down to single ball play I had lost the Soul Gem (got it back by completing Battle Royale).
On the same game I activated the change gems late in the game (I had 5 gems) as the ball came from the side ramp it jumped the up-post (Pro). As I was trying to both keep the ball alive and place the gems where I wanted I ran out of time. When I got control back of the ball I looked to see where the gems had been placed and the Time Gem was nowhere on the playfield, and there were 2 unlit shots.
I then lit, started (It only offered me that mode as an option) and completed the last gem mode and when I came to place it there were 2 available spaces.
After placing it, I then got Battle Thanos lit - which awarded 1,000,000 indicating that all 6 gems were indeed collected.
What happened to my Time gem in that interim period?

I had a somewhat similar issue with 1.00 code, just before 1.01 was released.

I won the Mind gem by successfully completing the “Marksman” Hawkeye Challenge. I had also previously successfully completed the “Amateur” and “Pro” Hawkeye Challenges.

The Mind gem was my 4th gem collected, but the gauntlet continued to only have 3 lights out and blue mind gem lit.

On my next Gem quest, I could still choose the Mind gem (even though I already had it), I didn’t choose it, but chose one of the 2 remaining gems. Unfortunately I didn’t make it too much farther this game to see what happens if I collected the 6 gems and if the game would correctly know I had the Mind gem, but it did show on the display as collected – not sure that I actually got a chance to use the Mind gem at all before my game ended.

IMG_0412.jpgIMG_0412.jpg
#6525 2 years ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Yep I agree players will gravitate toward a path that fits their play style, but I think the good thing about this game is that it offers choices and variety that accommodate a really wide range of styles so a lot of players can enjoy it however they want to attack it. No game is going to appeal to 100% of players. I think the best thing a game can do is give players a variety of good, fun choices for what to go after with balanced scoring so that it's really up to the player to choose how to proceed. The variety & choices are there if they want them and if they don't want them then they can play it the same way each time and there isn't anything wrong with that either.

That's not my point though. The game should keep it fresh for those players too. If it provides 100 balanced paths for 100 types of players, that's great, but I'm only one type of player, so I'll only see that one path, and it gets boring quick.

#6526 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

that is exactly my point.
I am not interested in following other peoples strategy, that not only makes the point of selecting a path moot but makes it boring as you tend to repeat the same path over and over.
Putting the hours to become better can be done and should be done like it always has been done in pinball, with skill and ball control by following the games randomness and not by manually triggering a sequence through an options menu that could lead to bigger rewards in a shorter ball time.
This puts a less experienced player at a huge disadvantage and it has nothing to do with actual pinball skill, it is simply exploiting the scoring system through the ruleset and taking the easiest path or better strategy. To me, manually selecting modes is the equivalent of removing the glass and pushing switches with my fingers.
It is not fair unless all players know the strategies available and that is not what pinball is about.
Pinball should be an approachable game that can be learned in matter of minutes/hours, not months.

Many pinball machines have rules that allow the player to choose modes even if not by direct choice - by hitting the pops or slings to change the next available mode.

Many "modern" games have deeper rules that take more play and time invested to understand and formulate strategies.

Sounds like you may prefer earlier pinball, like System 11 era where the rules are much more shallow and you can understand them all after a handful or so games. I still enjoy games like that as well, but "completing" a game multiple times in the same game only keeps you wanting to play that game so much...

#6527 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

that is exactly my point.
I am not interested in following other peoples strategy, that not only makes the point of selecting a path moot but makes it boring as you tend to repeat the same path over and over.
Putting the hours to become better can be done and should be done like it always has been done in pinball, with skill and ball control by following the games randomness and not by manually triggering a sequence through an options menu that could lead to bigger rewards in a shorter ball time.
This puts a less experienced player at a huge disadvantage and it has nothing to do with actual pinball skill, it is simply exploiting the scoring system through the ruleset and taking the easiest path or better strategy. To me, manually selecting modes is the equivalent of removing the glass and pushing switches with my fingers.
It is not fair unless all players know the strategies available and that is not what pinball is about.
Pinball should be an approachable game that can be learned in matter of minutes/hours, not months.

Yeah but then wouldn't we be getting back to the style of games that were build in the past, which were absolutely fun games but which weren't as deep? I get what you're saying, but it seems like it applies way more toward competitive pinball than stepping up and playing a game for fun or owning a machine at home that's going to hold interest for a longer time because of it's depth.

But even in competitive pinball aren't there going to be times where someone hasn't played a machine as much as the opponent and so is at a bit of a disadvantage, even for an older less complex game? And how would you ever eliminate that except by making all games much more simple in rules or by (*shudder*) making them all very, very similar in rules. It seems like making a game so it's easy for a person to step right up and not be at any disadvantage to someone who's played it before might just result in that game not holding interest very long for a decent segment of the market.

#6528 2 years ago
Quoted from LargemouthAss:

Get the pinmonk flipper fan kit. It fixes this problem. The coils get hot after a few games and lose power, the fans keep the coil cool.

I added these to mine also. I found that after playing for about 45 minutes to an hour straight my flippers were losing power and since adding these fans that doesn't happen anymore.

#6529 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

That's not my point though. The game should keep it fresh for those players too. If it provides 100 balanced paths for 100 types of players, that's great, but I'm only one type of player, so I'll only see that one path, and it gets boring quick.

Not everyone likes the same style/ rulesets of the same pinball machines... that's what makes this hobby great, one persons favorite may be someone else's least favorite. Just have to find the games you enjoy.

-2
#6530 2 years ago
Quoted from awesome1:

Many pinball machines have rules that allow the player to choose modes even if not by direct choice - by hitting the pops or slings to change the next available mode.
Many "modern" games have deeper rules that take more play and time invested to understand and formulate strategies.
Sounds like you may prefer earlier pinball, like System 11 era where the rules are much more shallow and you can understand them all after a handful or so games. I still enjoy games like that as well, but "completing" a game multiple times in the same game only keeps you wanting to play that game so much...

Nope, I do not prefer that era... I enjoy them for what they are.
Choice is great, but the choice should be at random... selected randomly every time, not by player but by the computer. You still have your 'multiple paths' and multiple ways to play it, but randomly. To me that is way more fun that a selectable option.

Otherwise, as already mentioned before, the player tends to follow one path and it defeats the purpose of 'choice'

#6531 2 years ago
Quoted from awesome1:

Not everyone likes the same style/ rulesets of the same pinball machines... that's what makes this hobby great, one persons favorite may be someone else's least favorite. Just have to find the games you enjoy.

And as previously stated, the more play types a game can cater to the better. Hence why this is an issue

#6532 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Nope, I do not prefer that era... I enjoy them for what they are.
Choice is great, but the choice should be at random... selected randomly every time, not by player but by the computer. You still have your 'multiple paths' and multiple ways to play it, but randomly. To me that is way more fun that a selectable option.
Otherwise, as already mentioned before, the player tends to follow one path and it defeats the purpose of 'choice'

If true choice is available (with similar potential for big scores from many different ways of playing) and the player only tends to follow one path then I don't see that as being the fault of the game or something the game needs to correct. I guess I look at it this way:

1) If it's designed so the first mode shown to play on the screen is random, then the player can either press the button to play that randomly selected mode or make a choice to change it. But either way, with it designed this way both styles of player can get what they want.

2) If it's designed so the mode to play is only randomly chosen by the computer then there really isn't any "choice" involved for the player. Players who like completely random computer selection will be happy but players who want a bit more freedom & strategy won't like it as much and they won't have any option to play the way they would prefer.

So #1 enables both styles of play while #2 limits it to only one style. I think why limit it? Again though, it's all personal preference and some games are more suited to what someone likes than others. No game will appeal to 100% of players so it's good that there are a lot of machines with different layouts and rule sets to choose from.

There are definitely games out there that many people like that I don't like, but I wouldn't suggest changing the rules on those games. I'd just find a game I like better.

-2
#6533 2 years ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

If true choice is available (with similar potential for big scores from many different ways of playing) and the player only tends to follow one path then I don't see that as being the fault of the game or something the game needs to correct. I guess I look at it this way:
1) If it's designed so the first mode shown to play on the screen is random, then the player can either press the button to play that randomly selected mode or make a choice to change it. But either way, with it designed this way both styles of player can get what they want.
2) If it's designed so the mode to play is only randomly chosen by the computer then there really isn't any "choice" involved for the player. Players who like completely random computer selection will be happy but players who want a bit more freedom & strategy won't like it as much and they won't have any option to play the way they would prefer.
So #1 enables both styles of play while #2 limits it to only one style. I think why limit it? Again though, it's all personal preference and some games are more suited to what someone likes than others. No game will appeal to 100% of players so it's good that there are a lot of machines with different layouts and rule sets to choose from.
There are definitely games out there that many people like that I don't like, but I wouldn't suggest changing the rules on those games. I'd just find a game I like better.

#1 is unfair and a way for someone with understanding of the rules to cheat the scoring system.

#6534 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

#1 is unfair and a way for someone with understanding of the rules to cheat the scoring system.

Someone with an "understanding of the rules" SHOULD have an advantage, I'd hardly call that "cheating."

I like options so I wouldnt mind an randomly select Quest option in the settings but Id NEVER turn it on personally. I like when games have different approaches to selecting modes. TMNT is actually really good (now) in my opinion. Modes are selectable but semi-random because the targets that change the mode get hit inadvertently. With Avengers though, the directly choose your Quest approached suits the ruleset perfectly.

-4
#6535 2 years ago
Quoted from shaub:

Someone with an "understanding of the rules" SHOULD have an advantage, I'd hardly call that "cheating."
I like options so I wouldnt mind an randomly select Quest option in the settings but Id NEVER turn it on personally. I like when games have different approaches to selecting modes. TMNT is actually really good (now) in my opinion. Modes are selectable but semi-random because the targets that change the mode get hit inadvertently. With Avengers though, the directly choose your Quest approached suits the ruleset perfectly.

no, let me be clearer:
2 players knowing the rules, one has a better strategy = advantage.

If you remove the strategy factor, which is achievable by selecting what modes you play, you even out the playfield to just the rules. The advantage is then removed.

#6536 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

no, let me be clearer:
2 players knowing the rules, one has a better strategy = advantage.

If you remove the strategy factor, which is achievable by selecting what modes you play, you even out the playfield to just the rules. The strategy factor is then removed.

But "strategy" is knowledge of the rules + a plan. Strategy exists with modes selectable or not. For example, do I go for Gem Quests or Super Modes? Do I start a Quest with a Portal lock or stack Thor?

Randomizing the mode selection just moves strategy decisions related to Gem Quests to be more on the fly, reactive rather than proactive. Which, frankly, I believe benefits the person with more game knowledge even more than making them selectable because they would more prepared to adjust on the fly.

#6537 2 years ago

One of the major differences between the really high level players and the just good players is strategy and rules knowledge. The top tier guys take the time to learn the rules inside and out. That is one of the things that separates them. If you want that "advantage", you have to put in the work, whether that be deep gem placement knowledge, or knowing how to max out a spinner and up your bonus on an EM. That has always been a part of being competitive. If you do not care about competition, then the "advantage" aspect is moot...just have fun.

Again, all different strokes for different folks. This game is a bit unique that you aren't just stuck with either random or select. Most games it's one or the other. If you still aren't cool with that...maybe this just isn't the game for you. Nothing wrong with that...tons of great options are out there for all play styles!

#6538 2 years ago

Is there any game that doesn't reward strategy with an advantage? Even in basic games this is true. Granted the strategy gap may not be as wide in games with flatter rulesets, but this is not something new to this or other modern games. Even in old games: stacking multiballs, bringing multiball into certain modes, performing XYZ to light the spinner, etc.

#6539 2 years ago

Yeah I don't know that I agree with taking away mode choice or the strategy within. My suggestions for adjustments are all based on making specific gameplay achievements easier to attain, or more fun to grind on at least.

#6540 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

My suggestions for adjustments are all based on making specific gameplay achievements easier to attain, or more fun to grind on at least

I definitely like the idea of difficulty options, not sure that I'm in favour of personally using the adjustments you suggest but Im certainly in favour of adding adjustments to allow people to set their machine more in line with what they want, while retaining the core gameplay that is.

#6541 2 years ago
Quoted from shaub:

I definitely like the idea of difficulty options, not sure that I'm in favour of personally using the adjustments you suggest but Im certainly in favour of adding adjustments to allow people to set their machine more in line with what they want, while retaining the core gameplay that is.

Yeah, I love the core game, rules concept, and the layout is stellar. I tried to be careful thinking through my suggestions so they wouldn't change any of the stock behavior or any of the core game story. Just hoping for some ways to make the game a little more explorable for me and my family.

#6542 2 years ago

I can't wait to see the variety of strategies the top players will use during competition with AIQ.

Thats what makes this game so great, there's no 1 way to play this game.

#6543 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

no, let me be clearer:
2 players knowing the rules, one has a better strategy = advantage.
If you remove the strategy factor, which is achievable by selecting what modes you play, you even out the playfield to just the rules. The advantage is then removed.

Sorry, but this doesn't really make any sense. ALL games (not just pinball) have strategy. Chess, football, table tennis, Black Jack, whatever... everyone knows the rules of the game, but each player/team has their own strategy.

#6544 2 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

One of the major differences between the really high level players and the just good players is strategy and rules knowledge.

It’s accuracy and stamina more than anything.

#6545 2 years ago

Taking away choice of gems takes away additional strategy. If I have one or two portal locks, or a diff. Multiball ready, I might change what quest I take.
Getting random quests shoved down your throat just so that someone that didn’t take the time to learn strategy can have a better chance is not really a good idea and hinders the great choice making this game has.
Pretty sure KME would want this game with those choices left in, I’m sure other options were considered, and rejected for reasons.
Sounds like you should sell...

#6546 2 years ago
Quoted from awesome1:

Sorry, but this doesn't really make any sense. ALL games (not just pinball) have strategy. Chess, football, table tennis, Black Jack, whatever... everyone knows the rules of the game, but each player/team has their own strategy.

You just made my point: if you are playing chess, The other party adds its randomness the to the gameplay i.e. you do not get to choose your adversary nor his moves.

#6547 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

It’s accuracy and stamina more than anything.

Bingo. And a good strategy will help someone with good stamina and accuracy a lot quicker. You want to make your points early in the game, not at the end when you are crushed.

#6548 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

You just made my point: if you are playing chess, The other party adds its randomness the to the gameplay i.e. you do not get to choose your adversary nor his moves.

But they don't randomly pick that you have to move your pawn, rook, queen, etc... you get to choose. Similarly in AIQ you can choose which gem quest to go on, the game doesn't decide for you.

There is plenty of randomness in pinball regardless... "The Ball is Alive!"

#6549 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Bingo. And a good strategy will help someone with good stamina and accuracy a lot quicker. You want to make your points early in the game, not at the end when you are crushed.

There are lots of games that are a slow burn. Shots get more valuable as you go on.

When you’re playing the tops in the world, you need to have the where with all to score 30 billion on B66, 200 million on xmen, 400 million on Spider-Man, etc. I

I just don’t have that kind of stamina yet. They are ready to go for those types of games at all times. The average to good player might be up for a game like that once in a lifetime.

95% of pinball games have easy enough rules that you’re on the same level as the best in the world in one session. Other aspects of skill are way more important than rules knowledge and strategy.

#6550 2 years ago

I'm gonna go ahead and say that I like my pinball rules to lack randomness and let the physical nature of the game provide it.

Avengers is fundamentally built around picking which Gem to fight for in order to build strategies utilizing their specific powers, so forcing a player to play a random one would contradict this basic element of the game. As it is, LOSING a gem quest provides plenty of opportunity to put a kink in a player's strategy and require you to adapt on the fly.

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