(Topic ID: 38023)

J114 pics req? Odd hack: separate happ power supply in the cabinet...

By Mocean

8 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by zhu808
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

edit: I'm trying to undo this hack, but the molex/harness headed into J114 and the Z connector have been cut in such a way I'm not sure what is supposed to go where. The manual supposedly has errors. Does anyone have a picture of what the cable connector should look like?

Thanks!!

Hi All,

I picked up a nice Roadshow from a super nice seller locally. When we were going over the machine, I found something that I didn't expect to see, and I was puzzled for a little while there.

The short version is that someone added a "Happ Power Pro" power supply to the cabinet and spliced it into the power box molex for power and ran its +5v lines directly into the CPU/WPC-89/Fliptronics board interconnect (using wire nuts). I played a few games on it while I was there and it did work just fine. I haven't powered it on since I brought it home because I just feel funny about it.

In my usual "once over" I found lots of over-fused fuses (5A where 3A should be). The most insane was the 3/4A SB fuse for the switch matrix which had an 8A fuse in it (!!). The area around that fuse almost looks scorched, too...

Anyway, I have oodles of questions about this hack that I haven't seen anywhere else before. Pictures are attached for the curious.

1. has anyone seen this before? I'm guessing this was done because the +5V leaving the driver board was bad, but... is this as rare of a hack as I think it is?

2. Is it safe? The power pro's 5v 15amp connection is connected to the driver board, and those lines run like 3 or 5amps if I'm not mistaken... perhaps the over-fusing was intentional?

3. If I were to undo this (which I'm eager to do, and really have to before I ever try to sell this thing), I have a currently untested WPC-89 -1 (populated flipper relay) to drop in, what should I do to make sure that replacement board is good, and how likely am I to kill that board with this machine

Thanks!

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#2 8 years ago

the rest of the relevant pics...

2013-01-27T15-42-55_31.jpg 2013-01-27T15-42-54_18.jpg 2013-01-27T15-42-55_35.jpg

#3 8 years ago

I'd get it out of there, and fix what ever the reset issue was before you sell it or keep it.

I've seen it before, and wonder why they put more effort into that than finding and curing the real problem.

LTG : )

#4 8 years ago

WTF!!!! That is one hell of hack job

#5 8 years ago

Probably an operator who has tons of vid spares in the shop and no WPC spares and no time to wait for a repair, so they tell the shop tech, hack it, ship it..... Dead machines make no money.

But yeah, major hack. I'd put reversing it on the top of the todo list during resto.

#6 8 years ago

I should add that the machine is pretty clean otherwise. There's not a lot to deal with other than this (raised inserts, dozer opto).

This might be a naive question, but can I play it as is or should I not?

Does anyone have a good reference for bench testing a WPC-89? I'm tempted to snip out this power supply and see what happens, but I'm guessing nothing exciting other than a typical non-working game missing 5v (no CPU at a minimum).

I see what happened with F115 now. Someone misread it as F114, and tossed the 8A NB in the wrong location. It sure looks toasty there, no?

Thanks!

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I'd get it out of there, and fix what ever the reset issue was before you sell it or keep it.
I've seen it before, and wonder why they put more effort into that than finding and curing the real problem.
LTG : )

Thank you.

I take that to mean 'fix it right away'. I guess I'll have to undo this wiring mess and pull the board. Drag.

#8 8 years ago

F115 gets toasty like that due to the heat of the triacs. Some alcohol on a swab will clean it up nicely.

Road Show is a WPC-S, not a WPC-89.

One of the voltages at the driver board is out of spec. I'd guess it's the +5. Use your DMM and check the test points and report back.

Could also be a wiring problem between the CPU and Driver causing the drop - likely J210, or the connector across from it.

All of this, you can fix, have no fear

#9 8 years ago

I've seen this many times.

As operators got out of pinball they have less experience in fixing their power supplies.

Those video game power supplies are piled sky high in every operator's warehouse, so someone somehow though that would be an easier fix.

There is probably one of those in every Galaga/Ms Packman in the world.

You can leave it for now, but I'd do a proper fix at some point.

#10 8 years ago

Thank you for the very specific tips and words of encouragement.

Quoted from johnwartjr:

Road Show is a WPC-S, not a WPC-89.

Perhaps I was unclear. Although RoadShow is WPC-S, my understanding is that the driver board is still considered WPC-89, and that the driver board in the roadshow (which ends -3) could be replaced with my untested spare WPC-89 power driver board (which ends in -1 and has the flipper relay populated).

Thanks!

#11 8 years ago

Well that's one way to have a stable 5V to the CPU and no reset.....

That looks like a JAMMA power supply and some have an adjustable 5V pot on them. The game likely had a reset issue and that was "the fix".

I have a nice Road Show and it was the one game I almost lost my mind fixing. I purchased my machine not working with a known reset issue. No problem. Nothing hacked up and the boards looked clean. In my case it was a combo of the thermistor in the power box, the infamous "Z" connector and standard bridges and caps.

The part that made me want to torch it is I had multiple solenoids firing randomly and I socketed and replaced U4 (I think) and figured I nailed it. Nope. I spent a LOT of time tracing wires and logic probing legs of chips until I found the real problem. There was a bridged data line that ran under U1 from a piece of small wire or solder blob that made intermittent contact.

Its easier for a bad component to burn up or not work at all and the random problems will drive you nuts. The fix was cheap but the time to catch it was a long one!

1 week later
#12 8 years ago

Does anyone have a picture of what J114 is supposed to look like? Mine has been really hacked up (wires cut) and I've read (here:http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/roadshow-has-lost-5-volts-i-think) that the manual is wrong about J114.

I know this is a silly request, but this is my first fliptronics machine and I'm not used to the extra connections here.

Thanks!

#13 8 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Well that's one way to have a stable 5V to the CPU and no reset.....
That looks like a JAMMA power supply and some have an adjustable 5V pot on them. The game likely had a reset issue and that was "the fix".

This got me thinking... aside from the idea of having a funny looking "brick" in the bottom of your cabinet, is it really such a terrible idea to feed your low voltage DC requirements with a modern regulated switching power supply? I would think it would be much more stable and might improve the longevity of various components...?

#14 8 years ago

My GI lights (backglass specifcally) dim /significantly/ when I hit the left flipper, so in my case this isn't great.

In general though, if you consider building your own machine from PinballController driver boards, those boards do not supply power and instead you just use an appropriate external power supply to provide 12v and 60v.

What's in that case is not terribly different than what's on the williams driver board, I suspect....

#15 8 years ago

Unless you want yer guts to look factory Leave it. it works. Not gonna hurt anything as is.

#16 8 years ago

I bought and sold my TOTAN with a switcher installed, looked strange when you lifted the playfield but it worked great (I bought it from a retailer who said he had completely 'shopped' the machine). The only issue was that I think it was plugged into the service outlet so it was always powered on, unless I unplugged the machine. Not really an issue I guess, other than shortening the life of the switcher.

#17 8 years ago

You can always make the service outlet switch on with the power switch if you want to.

I do this when I have a powered sub amp inside games I'm restoring.

Most sub amps say they "turn off" when they have 15 mins of no signal, but it seems they like to stay awake in pinball machines.

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Does anyone have a picture of what J114 is supposed to look like? Mine has been really hacked up (wires cut) and I've read (here:http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/roadshow-has-lost-5-volts-i-think) that the manual is wrong about J114.

Sorry to bump myself here, but I'm still looking for an image to help. I'm just trying to figure out what has been cut of and spliced.

Thanks!

#19 8 years ago

We use these to power bill acceptors on route games. Pretty handy.

#20 8 years ago

Bump for change of title which might help:

I'm trying to undo this hack, but the molex/harness headed into J114 and the Z connector have been cut in such a way I'm not sure what is supposed to go where. The manual supposedly has errors. Does anyone have a picture of what the cable connector should look like?

Thanks!!

#21 8 years ago

Send me a Pm with your email adress and i'll send you some pictures of my roadshow's guts tomorrow.

#22 8 years ago

Sent. Thank you in advance!

8 years later
#23 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can always make the service outlet switch on with the power switch if you want to.
I do this when I have a powered sub amp inside games I'm restoring.
Most sub amps say they "turn off" when they have 15 mins of no signal, but it seems they like to stay awake in pinball machines.

How?

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