(Topic ID: 196779)

NW Pinball Championships Controversy

By UNCgump

2 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Frax
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider


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    #16 2 years ago

    This whole thing is a clusterf...

    I can't even...both sides are at fault, for different reasons. Done.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballwife4life:

    I don't understand why some women feel that they need to be separate... Personally I don't get it... I would be more offended by not being able to play with the "men" and being sectioned off to the "women's".
    When I played at Pinburgh there wasn't a single moment where I thought OMG these "men" have an advantage. I can nudge and slide the machines just as well as any male.
    I get the "I am women hear us roar" movement, but come on... As far as the screaming of sexism in pinball I believe it depends on who you are around. In Michigan I do not feel that way at all.
    If men are judging you at a pinball event just smile and give them the finger

    Like seriously, can I give you a high five or something if you ever come to TPF?

    The even more janky thing about "Women's Tournaments" is that they *AREN'T* barred from participation in the regular full tournament if they choose to participate in the Women's one. So you simultaneously get cries of "EMAGERD MEN ARE AGGRESSIVE, RUDE, AND SEXIST" (oddly, these are the exact things that most women seem to go for when choosing who to date WTF) and the only solution to this is self-exclusion to a different tournament where men aren't allowed to play...

    But then they play in Main, Classics, etc as well (Wait a minute...with MEN?), and lay claim to sexism when things have to fit into a schedule to accommodate all this. If men were the problem in the first place, then why is overlap with other tournaments an issue? Also, as someone that's attended major tournaments before.....things ALWAYS overlap. There's a decided opportunity cost of playing in a Classics finals for me, because many times the finals run during the end of open qualification for the main tournament. I share the opinion that under good circumstances, finals from different groups shouldn't overlap...both for the sake of streaming and because we *all* would like to play in as many tournaments as possible (right?), but there's always going to be a "female penalty" if they're insisting to have these segregated tournaments. They're always going to be at a disadvantage in qualifying for the other concurrently running tournaments because they've expended time and money on qualifying for the Women-only one. Where's the line? At what point are TD's just going to become punching bags? At what point is everything just some sexist thing holding them down? This isn't professional sports. Women are allowed to compete with men here. Thanks to IFPA rules, you can't bar them from participating in the tournaments with men in them if they're playing in the Women's division....... there's a weird dual personality thing going on here.

    I guess I've been extremely fortunate. The women I've played with are very strong characters. They were intimidating to play against because they're *that good*. There was no reason for me to judge them as anything other than competitors, and IMO the best solution is to welcome everyone to every tournament, not to create an environment that exists as a wedge between groups, and to remove the people that act inappropriately. I've yet to have ever seen this be an issue in any tournament I've ever been to, which doesn't change the fact that it happens, but it's difficult to understand how these things happen with no personal experience.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballwife4life:

    then run your own tournament.

    I *have* run my own tournaments and leagues. I have, and will continue to, welcome any woman that cares to play, and to eject someone if there's an established case of sexism or ANY kind of harassment. I've never had a single complaint about my events, and when I was running them, women were showing up, whereas they did not to most others, so I'm pretty sure my handling of said events is just fine. (Any local women that feel otherwise and just didn't say anything at the time can be free to contact me privately, but I don't know that any of them post here..) I think the weekend league for our area is pulling in more women, but again, there's no separate division...I guess we just aren't dickheads to women. *shrug*

    What I *will not* do is run entirely separate divisions for players that feel like they should get special consideration because they don't practice, because they're born one gender or another, or because of lack of competitive motivation. I don't care if you come to play for fun or for competition. Everyone is equal in my eyes in that regard, and the final result, barring any major malfunctions, is what matters, and what gets submitted to IFPA. Fact is, in Dallas, we have *one* woman that consistently shows up for the league that I'm able to attend in the middle of the week. I can count....um........ 7 women that have ever showed up to local events and actively participated at one point or another. Any of the rest are not anyone I'd consider to show up for a tournament and want to play 99% of the time. Even out of those 7, it's more like... THREE that consistently will play, and my wife isn't even one of those three. LOL.

    If you want to call 8th-16th "b" then fine... but it's not going to be a completely segregated thing where you have no opportunity to learn from better players, or any chance to win more money than the person placing 3rd or 4th. =Þ

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