When installed by a professional in a socket, there is no reason not to use NVRAM. That said, a properly installed remote holder far from the board is also fine.

I have two games without NVRAM and both have remote battery holders with 8 foot wires that extend to the coin box; there's zero risk to the boards this way. If either game needed board work, I would have a professional install a socket then, but I don't see a reason to do so now.

Marc

Nvram all the way, no need for a "Professional " to do it if its a simple plug and play, socketed ram game. If the ram is soldered and your not comfortable desoldering it and installing a socket, just change your batteries yearly... Many other things will break on your games long before the Nvram fails, and since they are now a little over $2 a piece (shipped from china), its a no brainer...

NVRams can fail but normally last up to 30+ years. Batteries can fail too. Difference between the two is the battery fails and leaks it can cause a lot more problems than if a NVRam fails.

I mean that whole "change on a regular basis" part is the pain, isn't it? The only drawback is that the clock doesn't run with NVRAM.

The whole "batteries leaking that are 6 months old" is a pain.

Batteries leaking in a remote holder is a still a pain in the butt to deal with. Might not ruin a PCB, but still makes a mess. NVRAM all the way =D.

I use a cr2032 battery and holder in most of my games. I do have a large inventory of NVrams now, but haven't had the need to really use them. it costs about 25 cents to put a cr2032 (including the socket) in a game. that's pretty inexpensive. and the cr2032's, at least in my experience, do not leak. they last years too, haven't had problems with that either. But as the cr2032's die, i may switch to NVram (but not on WPC games, i need a real time clock in those, which NVram doesn't allow.)

With the price of NVrams down, i think it's great to use them. But when they were $8 to $30 each, it's just not a practical solution for me personally. But then again, i have 200+ games that are solid state and need something...

The main time CR2032 like to leak is when they can kill your laptop.

IMG02803-20131010-1054_zpsa0c12e47_(resized).jpg

I still don't get why this question keeps coming up, it really is a simple answer!
NVRAM is the superior and less risky option and guards against possible brain fade if you do forget when the batteries were last changed.
If the Ram fails that's no big deal is it? so you have to change your desired settings and you lose that mega high score, sure not the end of the world. I understand the argument about having a remote battery holder that keeps the batteries away from the boards but for my peace of mind GET THOSE SUCKERS OUTTA THERE FULL STOP.

People are hoping for reassurances that it's maybe kinda sorta OK to still have batteries in their machines.

Other than a handful of Real Time Clock machines, there is only one correct answer.

i've seen coin batteries leak too. but all the ones i've seen leak were 20 years old. i'm sure it happens but i haven't experienced it to any extent.

the bottom line is all about cost. if you have one game, or maybe three, fine knock your self out with NVram. but i have over 200 machines that use batteries. sorry i'm going with the 25 cent coin battery option. Even at $2 each, putting in NVram would be expensive, much less the $8 to $30 nvram route that most people have access. 25 cent batteries (including the holder!), makes it pretty hard to beat a cr2032 coin battery.

if you have half a brain, batteries are fine. it's people that aren't detail oriented and can't find the keys to their games, much less change the batteries (and have deep pockets), that i suppose NVram works well. Most of the time battery damage is caused by ignoring battery changes (or game storage with batteries left installed), and failure to mount remotely. as long as you're on top of that, batteries are fine. NVram is cute, but it's expensive. and on some games, it's invasive (WPC where the RAM is not socketed.) Again, it's hard to deny a coin battery in these situations.

Would there be an issue installing a NVRam and a remote battery holder in games that have midnight madness mode? Batteries die you lose the time but keep the score and the settings? Or would it not work?

I know it's extra unnecessary steps and it seems the cr2032 option would be best in those cases. Just wondering what would happen.

Time stops when you turn off the machine (otherwise you'd get a time and date not set error every time you powered it on). You'll get midnight madness at some random time.

So the batteries won't keep the time when the games off still. That would make it even more silly to have both lol.

I didn't realize you were asking if you could have batteries and NVRAM at the same time and keep your time. One of the smart people who knows how the real time clock advances will have to tell you Seems a little redundant to have NVRAM if you're going to keep your batteries fresh for the clocks?

Yea I know it's a little redundant . I'm kind of just asking about it in theory.

Having the batteries in with an NVRAM shouldnt hurt anything. Hard to say how much current the NVRAM will consume in that state, it might drain the battery fast because it is not intended to be battery backed up. The 5v version, FM1608 NVRAM might also not be happy with 3v from a coin cell and the data could corrupt.

I think there's a place for both.

Depends on what your skills are, how many games you have to outfit, etc.

Installed by a professional, there's really no 'risk' to NVRAM. A few games with midnight madness mode might not be a good fit, but at that point, it becomes a random mode that pops up once every 24 hours you play your game. And, I've had a few WPC CPUs over the year that don't retain the score real well, either. The RTC can drift.

I've cleaned up a lot of games where people tried to install NVRAM and damaged traces. Now, I'm sure there are people who aren't qualified to do a lot of things out there that are doing them - and sometimes, they do an OK job, sometimes it ends in disaster, and everything in-between.

I've spent lots of time cleaning up battery leakage, too.

CR2032s don't leak unless they get wet. But, either do lithium AA cells. So, if your board has a good battery holder, and the RAM is soldered in, you could just put 3 lithium AAs in it fairly inexpensively.

CR2032 wins for cheap. NVRAM wins for safety. A remote holder falls in between.

I'm sorry dude, i'm not being an arsehole BUT if you have the cash to have 200 machines in your collection then the extra cash foldies to change them from battery to NVRAM is a piss in the ocean !!!

I would hope that the chip would go into standby mode at that voltage, where it would consume just a few uA. The datasheet I looked at didn't explicitly say what the low voltage behavior was....

Hey, he doesn't have 200 machines. He has 200 machines... that use batteries.

Well because the collection didn't show up over night and the number of the keeps going up all the time. There's enough work to do on games there without have to spend forever changing RAM.

I sure don't want 200 games, but my modest collection of 50 is being converted over to NVRAM - as even 6 month old batteries will explode with a vengeance:

https://sb.pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sending-battery-damaged-mpu-back-to-energizer

If it helps, here's what I'm doing. In my keeper games, I've put NVRAM in them. I have a few games that have moved batteries or button batteries but I plan to convert to NVRAM over time to avoid any issues if I plan to keep for a while.

that is really the bottom line. we have nearly every WPC game made (aside from popeye!) and just doing that would be a time costly and expensive work. there's limited time. each game gets a coin battery (or remote battery) when it came in through the years. but to go back and change that to nvram, it would be time consuming (de-soldering each ram), potentially invasive (if you tear a trace)... and what is the advantage?

like i said, if you have a coin battery or remote battery system installed, you're 99% the way to safety. to spend the time/money to get that last 1% (and you loose "midnight madness" on some games to boot), it's just not worth it (in my opinion.)

Now as new games come in, if the CPU board has to come out for some reason, and the desoldering pump is warmed up, sure, that game may get a nvram.

50 + plus games and they are all getting changed to NVRAM this year. I always changed my batteries in my pins every Christmas. Just pulled all of my games and had 2 games with leaking one year old batteries. One was on the board and the other was in a remote holder.
I'm done with batteries. NVRAM all the way from here on.--------------------------------->Scott

I like making bulk deals =D

Popeye is a worthy game for your museum, Clay.

You don't loose midnight madness, the clock in the game will just not be right. Just set the pinball clock to 1145 when you turn it on and you will midnight madness every time you play it. I own several games with midnight magic and I hardly get it anyway becouse I really do not play my games at 12 midnight anyways. Other than tz becouse it shows the actual time in the Playfield clock, I have time and date set to off on all my games, so who cares if the time and date is not correct. Pinball is all about the high score and not for telling you the time and date. I have my cell phone for that.

If I remember correctly on ToM you get MM no matter what time it is. The right loop advances the clock 1 hour till you get to midnight.

Anyone got a link for the inexpensive nvram chips?

Check out this thread
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nvram-experience/page/7#post-2866377