The last discussion on this topic that I can recall was here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nvram-gottlieb-system-3-success

On my games, I just remove the old battery and install a CR2032 holder and battery.

If NVRAM was available, I would go that route too, but unfortunately, none of the usual NVRAM folks appear to have it.

couple people in that thread said FM16W08 didn't work but Ingo said it did.

I see Ingo has a pullup 10K pull up on a /CE. I wonder if that 74HCT373 is not sitting high during reset causing the RAM to act up when the battery supervisor chip is removed causing the other people's attempts to not work.

I will try it and if I can make a FM16W08 work with a pullup resistor I will have nvram module boards made that plug into the dallas bat supervisor chip socket and the 6264 socket.

That dallas chip is probably going to be tough to find in the future since it's marked as obsolete. Plus it's around $5, which kind of stinks when it gets hit by battery damage. It would be nice to be able to get rid of it

FM16W08 isnt working right in gottlieb system 3. It boots up to garbage and then resets every few seconds with the LED blinking fast (nine times? probably a ram error code). Seems like you would have to use extra signals that is not available at the 6264 socket to get the /CE friendly to FM16W08 which would end up being a messy implementation. From the FM1608 data sheet.

-=-=-=-
FRAM Design Considerations

When designing with FRAM for the first time, users
of SRAM will recognize a few minor differences.
First, bytewide FRAM memories latch each address
on the falling edge of chip enable. This allows the
address bus to change after starting the memory
access. Since every access latches the memory
address on the falling edge of /CE, users cannot
ground it as they might with SRAM.

Users who are modifying existing designs to use
FRAM should examine the memory controller for
timing compatibility of address and control pins.
Each memory access must be qualified with a low
transition of /CE. In many cases, this is the only
change required. An example of the signal
relationships is shown in Figure 2 below. Also shown
is a common SRAM signal relationship that will not
work for the FM1608.

The reason for /CE to strobe for each address is twofold:
it latches the new address and creates the
necessary precharge period while /CE is high.

-=-=-=-

Maybe someone can whip up some simtek based adapters. I am not familiar with that chip. I probably won't mess with it.

Aw Thanks for checking.

As far as I'm aware, that LED doesn't give any useful diagnostic info--it doesn't have flash codes like other systems do.

I made these. I can sell a few if there is interest. Overseas shipment won't be cheap however. Drop me a PM for more info.

Notice the removal of the Dallas chip U6 and the 2 jumpers in stead.

WP_20180320_22_45_18_Pro (resized).jpg

Hey Marco! That's just a standard SIMTEK 6264 replacement right?

These Gottlieb Sys3 NVRAMs were on my agenda. Actually now that I look, the OP is the one that's asked me about them patiently over the last year

Luckily my wife's away this week so I can sneak some design time in. I have a single Gottlieb Sys3 game and would like to get this done before selling the game, which may happen by the Allentown show. So this is good timing. Plus I still have a bunch of SIMTEK parts I need to use up!

If the Dallas chip just needs a few jumpers like that, I don't see any reason why it would be worth the effort to make a special "larger" board that plugged into both the reset chip & the 6264 socket. Either way the board needs to be modified. If the Dallas chip was already in a socket then it would make sense or if there's some other more invasive modification that could be taken care of with a board that would also make sense.

Hi Wayne

Sure, these are 8k8 NVRAM's in Autostore mode. A few external parts are needed, that's why I made a small PCB. I started to experiment with these years ago, when FM1608 chips were suddenly hard to get here.

They run perfectly fine in Gottlieb system 3 games. They also run fine in WPC, Whitestar, Bally 2518 (with different 22p socket), Williams system3-7 games. In Data East games they have issues but they can run after a small modification in the chipselect/reset circuit. I prefer using Ramtron there if having them available here. Also, in system80 games and Zaccaria games they didn't run properly.

When using them is Gottlieb system 3 games the battery monitor Dallas chip is nog longer needed and can be replaced with just 2 jumpers. It is the only modification needed which is pretty easy. I don't see any advanteges using a larger pcb here covering the Dallas footprint.

Marco

Got some boards in using SIMTEK chips for Gottlieb Sys3 games to do away with the batteries on those games.

sys3nvram (resized).jpg

**THESE REQUIRE SOLDERING / MPU MODIFICATIONS**

1. Remove the Dallas 1210 chip marked "U6" on the board
2. Add two wire jumpers at the U6 footprint (see MarAlb's post)
3. Remove the soldered 6264 SRAM and install the 28-pin IC socket in its place

*** UPDATE: Think I have enough volunteers for testing these right now! ***

Thanks again to MarAlb on his efforts on getting to a solution!

-Wayne

Or, you could use the right part and not need a little adapter board:

STK16C68

Of course, they probably don't make the STK16C68 or STK12C68 in DIP28 any more... I haven't looked. This chip was from some leftover stock I've had for several years. You can also use ZMD U63764, which I know are long out of production. But I'm sure you can get the Chinese to scrounge up some pulls.

The STK12C68 part requires some additional components to function correctly. Some people have gotten away with putting those in WHITESTAR boards & possibly a few others without the supporting components, but it's asking for trouble in reliability because the parts ARE necessary on the STK12C68 chip. I seem to remember PinLogic had a 5101 NVRAM adapter that used a SIMTEK part and was missing the supporting capacitors & pull-ups (though obviously it worked in its application or wouldn't have been sold for long).

Would be nice to find the STK16C68 parts since those incorporate the supporting components, but I've not seen those available cheap anywhere. Here's some for $59ea or $35 if you buy more than 54x -- https://rcfreelance.com/p/ic/533780/stk16c68-w45/ Not exactly a steal

Sticking the SMD STK12C68 part that's available on a board with its supporting components is cheap enough cost-wise. I'll probably try and hit similar price-point to some of my other modules. Expecting lower volume in sales due to the MPU board modifications necessary & since Gottlieb Sys3 coin cells last a LONG time with the DS1210 chip, so this is just for people that ABSOLUTELY want to get rid of any and all batteries on their boards. I don't mind helping to make the option available. It can compete with low sales records on the Gottlieb Sys1 modules lol.

You probably don’t need the cap with the STK12C68 here, but since you have to make the adapter for the SMD part anyway, you might as well include it. Cheap insurance.

Yeah, I doubt demand will be very high. The lithium coin cells work well, and are safe. Mine still had the original cell, and the voltage was still solid (measured 3.2V). Only reason I installed the NVRAM was because I was curious, and bored.

I am not able to test, but looking forward to buying once available.

Thanks guys! I think I've got enough volunteers for some feedback.

For anyone I've been in contact with, all the packages are headed out today. Included a little instruction sheet, but the modifications are also noted earlier in this thread.

I’m gonna need some of these.

Okay, Stargate is now back together. It’s as dumb as a bag of pinballs, as expected. I set a couple of things for it to remember, then turned off and unplugged the machine for 15 minutes. I plugged it back in, turned it back on and the settings had been retained. I played a couple of games, saved some more stuff, and repeated the process. Everything worked great. chris Hibler was kind enough to do the install and testing on short notice, with quick turnaround. By my count, I’m going to need 5 more of these. Wayne, Thank you making these available. My collection will soon be completely battery free.

4C28FA20-D9BA-4BDF-9D5F-7B1B53AB6F36 (resized).jpeg

9C28D75E-A759-4030-8816-0486F55D1F2A (resized).png

A04A2979-D1BD-430B-8850-462308156AA3 (resized).png

Great to hear! You're the 2nd person to get this installed out of I think 4x that went out. Still waiting on some feedback from the couple of other people I sent modules out to. Glad to help rid machines of batteries any day

-----

In other news..
Antennaejim emailed me last night mentioning he had noticed some strange behavior during gameplay on his Lights, Camera, Action. May be totally unrelated, but he said scores/freeplay were working fine, but at one point the flipper buttons seemed to trigger pop bumpers & scoring. I'd imagine the scoring was due to the pop bumpers firing -- so it's more a matter of what caused the pop bumpers to fire if the ball wasn't near there.

For those testing, once you've tested freeplay, high scores, etc are holding when the machine is unplugged for a bit -- play some pinball! And let me know if you notice anything odd at all. I'm thinking Jim's problem is unrelated to the RAM, but that should be verified once a few more of these get installed for testing.

I finally got around to the install, sorry it took so long. Install was easy enough, or as easy as desoldering a 28 pin chip can be. I did end up having to cut the old one out. I like it when they fall right out!

On first power up I got an odd message, some sort of communications error. Then the screen said "printing". I should have taken a picture of it. It was also already on Free Play. I was able to get to the factory reset menu and it seems fine now. It defaulted to coin play like it should, then I set it to free play. I powered it down for a few minutes and it's still on free play. Thanks again!

Great to hear!

I also had an update from Antennaejim who told me he hasn't experienced any more odd behavior during gameplay on Lights, Camera, Action!

From what I'm hearing, these are working fine as expected. Thanks for the feedback all! I'll get some more boards ordered up and should have them on the site then sometime next month.

I still have a handful of boards from the first small run, so if anyone's interested in picking one up send me a PM.

The NVRAM appears to be working as planned in the Stargate. This one is going to be going into storage for a while, will be a good long term test.

NVRAM Modules for Gottlieb Sys3 machines are now available via shopping cart:

http://www.pinitech.com/products/gottlieb_sys3_nvram.php

Upgraded a Stargate with this NVRAM. Operation was a success.

Prior to that the game was booting with garbage on the DMD and the beep/reset issue. The NVRAM upgrade put it in the right language, but still doing the beep at startup if the machine was left on a while and then turned off and back on. Upgraded the game ROM to V5 which should solve that & seems to make Stargate less annoying as well lol. Some call-outs were pretty frequent on the V3 ROM and I definitely wasn't warming up to the game much. Just playing around with the V5 a bit, it definitely seems to have changed some things. I really should just default to upgrading the ROMs right away in games to get the best experience, but just kind of find I'm lazy about it

One area of caution on board modifications.. it seems they bent over the IC legs slightly on the solder side. Along with thin traces (reminds me of WPC) you'll want to exercise some caution removing the original RAM. I tend to snip the legs with micro-shear flush cutters and remove one pin at a time, then desolder the holes -- versus trying to pull an entire chip. I'm never fond of boards with bent over pins on the solder-side, I get why they did it, but it adds to the difficulty.

Really need 2 of theese.
No shipping to Norway ?

John Wart put one in my Freddy today - A)Works like a champ B)Seems to have resolved the infamous boot up screech (even though the battery was socketed and new - it'd still do it on occasion - so I thought, hell with that......so nice to have! - great job!

Pinitech Sys3 nvram works great.

If you don’t have pcb rework / soldering experience with a ESD safe setup, but you do want an NVRAM in your system3 board, don’t butcher your board trying this yourself.

Send me a query form on my website if you want it to come back correctly and neatly done.

I machine pin socketed the Dallas chip and used thick component legs to press fit the jumpers just to show a cool way that is quickly and easily reversible, but is permanent if left alone.

As seen in the picture, I use SIP machine socket strips for the NVRAM at U3 for best connectivity results.

Thank you,
Ryan
RB Pinball & Coin
www.RBPinball.com

F5EAF761-D492-4684-8C4E-7B7E81A23195 (resized).jpeg

The Pinitech Sys3 nvram works great.

If you don’t have pcb rework / soldering experience with a ESD safe setup, but you do want an NVRAM in your system3 board, don’t butcher your board trying this yourself.

Send me a query form on my website if you want it to come back correctly and neatly done.

I machine pin socketed U3 for better connectivity and U6 so I could use thick component legs to press fit jumpers. This is a cool way that is quickly and easily reversible, but is permanent if left alone.

Thank you,
Ryan
RB Pinball & Coin
www.RBPinball.com

43E5449B-A6D5-428F-86E2-A412ED2C63A2 (resized).jpeg

The Pinitech Sys3 NVRAM works great!

-RB Pinball & Coin

127304BF-5589-44EA-AB69-F2DCF31D6563 (resized).jpegFE9DD17A-CA95-485A-B9F3-04712084D490 (resized).jpeg