(Topic ID: 141588)

NVRAM experience -- $1.50-$2.00 chips

By lyonsden

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 708 posts
  • 116 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by harig
  • Topic is favorited by 128 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

hs (resized).png
ram (resized).JPG
Untitled (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
04C6865A-9064-4994-8FF7-8F959B036B78 (resized).jpeg
D0A29810-8035-453B-8038-D3B24F43A09F (resized).jpeg
C34151AD-9662-43CB-8066-7A5216B7A07F (resized).jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
Untitled (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
9F6095BC-2380-4BAB-A602-400CA3165D48 (resized).jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
Ice-Cold-FreezeOtto (resized).jpg
Knipex (resized).jpg
IMG_6122 (resized).JPG

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider lindsey.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#94 8 years ago

System 11 and 11A use 6116 (24 pin RAM). System 11B and 11C can use either 6116 or 6264 (28 pin RAM).

For System 11 and 11A you'll need to use a 6116 adapter or convert to use 6264 using stacked sockets, etc...

If you have an 11B or 11C which uses 6116 and want to convert to 6264, install a 28 pin socket and move the jumper from W5 to W6.

#96 8 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

I like the sound of this, since I have quite a few 11B and 11C games. It would still be great to see a nice install post of someone doing this, complete with results. I can assure you it would get at least one upvote.

I'll get some pics later today. I've been using a System 11 MPU to test my 6116 and 6264 adapters for years so I've got one sitting here set up for both

#117 8 years ago

Here are some Eagle and Gerber files for a single sided 6116 to FM1608 DIP adapter. Should be a pretty easy board to etch at home. That might be a good option for some people.

6116 to FM1608.jpg6116 to FM1608.jpg

Gerbers:
http://pinforge.com/6116_To_FM1608_DIP/6116%20To%20FM1608%20Gerbers.zip

Eagle Files:
http://pinforge.com/6116_To_FM1608_DIP/6116%20To%20FM1608%20Eagle%20Files.zip

If you see an error, feel free to point it out.

#121 8 years ago

Here's one with the bypass cap added. There should be one on the MPU PCB, but it doesn't hurt to throw one in there.

You could install the cap on the bottom of the PCB, in the case of the DIP cap, there is enough room for it to not interfere with anything when installed, or use a socket and install either cap (SMD or DIP) under the socket.

6116 to FM1608 With Bypass Cap.jpg6116 to FM1608 With Bypass Cap.jpg

Eagle Files:
http://pinforge.com/6116_To_FM1608_DIP/6116%20to%20FM1608%20Eagle%20Files%20With%20Bypass%20Cap.zip

Gerbers:
http://pinforge.com/6116_To_FM1608_DIP/6116%20to%20FM1608%20Gerber%20Files%20With%20Bypass%20Cap.zip

#122 8 years ago

And one with an LED because everyone loves LEDs. Pads for SMD and DIP parts.

6116 to FM1608 With Bypass Cap And LED.jpg6116 to FM1608 With Bypass Cap And LED.jpg

Eagle Files:
http://pinforge.com/6116_To_FM1608_DIP/6116%20to%20FM1608%20Eagle%20Files%20With%20Bypass%20Cap%20And%20LED.zip

Gerber Files:
http://pinforge.com/6116_To_FM1608_DIP/6116%20to%20FM1608%20Gerber%20Files%20With%20Bypass%20Cap%20And%20LED.zip

Feel free to use these files for your own use. If people want to put together some kind of group PCB order or something, go ahead, but would prefer that these not be made and sold for profit by anyone.

I would also suggest that someone vet the designs before going forward with creating PCBs. I did these designs quickly to help you guys out. It's not improbably that there's an error

#124 8 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Definitely. And nice work. Thanks for designing these and making them available for hobbyists to use. If you want to make sure that people abide by your "not for profit" wishes, please add a license file to your zip file.
This license may work (but I haven't read it carefully): https://opensource.org/licenses/NPOSL-3.0

Thanks! I'll do that.

#134 8 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

Thanks for sharing this, Lindsay.
What do you think about a design like this?
A bit more complicated to solder, but the FM1608DIP has the same axis as the 6116-socket.
FM1608 top 6116.JPG

Cool stuff! I like the size. I've been designing most things for efficient assembly lately and trying to find a balance between PCB cost and assembly time. Sometimes making things smaller makes them a lot harder (for me) to assemble. In this case the main thing was to keep it single sided so people could etch them at home.

#135 8 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

I am guessing on the adapter above pin 1 is on the upper left and pin 24-28 upper right. ??
No need to really make pcb for a couple jumpers. Some perf board will work fine.
Thanks in advance.

That's right.

A hand built adapter or stacked sockets would be a good option for a lot of people. Etching PCBs is going to be a good option for people who need a bunch of them. I wouldn't consider it for one or two either.

#137 8 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I think they have to be double sided unless you want to solder machine pins from the top side. That might be difficult for someone with limited practice.

That was my thought too. If you made the boards single sided you would need to use machine pins or solder the RAM directly to the adapter. Neither of those options are that difficult. Personally, I would probably just solder the RAM to the adapter, if I were using the ~$2 RAMs and etching my own boards. I'm not planning to do either of those things at this point.

You could also make a double sided board with the files I provided. If you had any of those PCBs made by a board house into a two sided board, you would have the through-hole pads on both sides and you could solder in a dual-wipe socket much easier. I also included the bottom layer in the gerber files so the option is there even for people etching their own, which was the whole point in the first place.

Quoted from barakandl:

You will figure it out after assembling a couple.

Agreed. I've done many revisions of these stupid RAM adapters over the years and learned what works for me. Like offsetting the DIP packages the way I did. In this case that made the board slightly smaller, and allowed me to route the traces the way I wanted. I could have moved them closer together, but then assembly gets tougher. It's a balance.

#138 8 years ago

The easiest option for most people is going to be just buying a dedicated 6116 adapter from one of the many people selling them.

1 week later
#264 8 years ago

I used to order from EPROM Man 10 or so years ago, but gave up on him once eBay got bigger and there were other options. I've purchased several hundred EPROMs from him. Imagine EPROMs wrapped like the picture Clay posted, but the legs are all bent and they're dirty. That's pretty much EPROM Man.

#265 8 years ago

Ugh... I double post so much.

1 week later
#291 8 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Never hurts to hedge yourself.. worst case you sit on them a few years while everyone else sells cheap. I'm sure plenty more people are hitting up these $2-3 chips though -- and that's causing some of these Aliexpress vendors that only have a few hundred at a time to sell out quicker.. doesn't seem like you can link a seller there for long before the listing goes inactive.

I bought a huge supply of the SOIC parts when RAMTRON sold to Cypress. I cleaned out most of the suppliers because I knew the price was going to go through the roof, if Cypress made them at all. It hasn't been worth it to put them in RAM adapters so I've saved the "genuine" parts for reproduction MPUs. People seem to be cool with buying adapters made with grey market parts so I'm just going to do that and lower my prices to match or beat the "competition" while still selling through resellers and offering stuff that no one else is selling. So, look forward to that in January. The challenge of selling through other people is it's tough to adjust the pricing later. That's the whole reason I haven't been able to keep up with the price drops over the last couple years. I'm going to ensure that doesn't remain an issue in the future.

#296 8 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Lets dance! I bought a few of these NOS from a board house and i don't intend to get stuck with them.
20151220_124143.jpg

Looks familiar. Haha! Cool!

Quoted from barakandl:

I don't think we have seen the bottom of the NVRAM game just yet.

I agree, but I don't think you have to worry about me personally too much as competition. Anything I do with NVRAM adapters at this point will be more for fun than anything.

I'm not really interested in the dance at this point. The only person I need to compete with is myself. If I want to blow out a bunch of these to make a point to myself I'll do it. I never know what I'm really going to end up doing from day to day. If it were truly a competition I would just give them away for free because I hate losing.

#298 8 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Haven't convinced myself to do this, but yeah it's really the only way to compete in an nvram product.

Agreed. That, and streamlining assembly. We can nickle and dime the parts, but efficient assembly is where you're going to actually generate a profit. This is true for any PCB. It could easily reach the point where hand assembling them isn't cost effective. Unless you really want to work cheap.

Quoted from acebathound:

I'm much happier designing new innovative stuff than getting sucked back into any more drama. It's been a real time sink over the years. Good riddance

I feel like I can do both at this point. Design new stuff and still sell the odd NVRAM adapter. It's just that I have to sell them cheaper now for anyone to buy them. I'm cool with that up to a point. As long as I don't have to ship them out a piece at a time, I can deal with it. The drama is what is it. Nothing in pinball is profitable enough to really give that much of a shit about it.

2 weeks later
#336 8 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I created a new 5101 adapter for people that like to DIY. All through hole components. Jumper out and 7400 installed = dual CE operation. Jumper in and 7400 out = single CE operation. Might offer them up as kits for people buying their own FM1608.

Looks cool. The only thing I would consider is connecting the inputs and outputs of the 5101 in parallel on the PCB. It's not strictly necessary because these pins should be connected on any MPU that this adapter would be used with, but I'm not sure that the adapters will be able to be tested in the NeoLoch RAM tester with the layout you're using.

#339 8 years ago

Not trying to steal your thunder, but here are some routing ideas. Should be the equivalent circuit with no vias. You would have to mount the bypass cap on the bottom. There should be room. Or use SMD. Both pads are there.

5101_Adapter_DIP_RAMTRON_(resized).jpg5101_Adapter_DIP_RAMTRON_(resized).jpg

1 week later
#389 8 years ago

Thought I would let you guys know that I bought some of these RAMs and more than half failed testing.

ebay.com link: 50PCS FM16W08 Encapsulation SOP28

I figured someone would get burned on these at some point. Turns out it was me.

Anyone want to point me to some cheap options for SOIC FM16W08 which will actually work?

#391 8 years ago

It was definitely a kick in the nuts for my first attempt at buying "cheap" FRAMs to end in abysmal failure.

Quoted from acebathound:

Did you check if pin #14 was shorted to pin #28 on those?

I just checked a few and the failed ones read the same as the ones which pass. They don't fail consistently. Some fail all tests, and some pass a few but fail others.

Here's the rig I'm using to test them:

FRAM_Testing_(resized).JPGFRAM_Testing_(resized).JPG

I thought it might be an issue with the ZIF sockets or something so I soldered a couple to 6264 adapters and tested them again. Same results. These chips are trash.

#444 8 years ago

If you're paying $2 for a 40 pin ZIF, you can be pretty sure it's not genuine 3M.

#447 8 years ago

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/3M-Electronic-Solutions-Division/240-1280-29-0602J/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs%2fSh%2fkjph1tjJZclYmfaNPlb8CZLyMrOg%3d

I just bought a TL866 Universal Programmer because every damn time I work with a new programmable IC it seems like I need another damn programmer, but the whole thing wasn't too much more than just the ZIF socket from Mouser.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
9,000
Machine - For Sale
Richfield, OH
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
Other
5,900
Machine - For Sale
Anderson, SC
$ 22.50
$ 1,059.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
Pinball Machine
From: $ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
From: $ 30.00
Cabinet - Toppers
+CY Universal
Toppers
From: $ 40.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RamMods
Toys/Add-ons
$ 225.00
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
(Alt) Translites
$ 25.00
Playfield - Plastics
ULEKstore
Plastics
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
Pinball Machine
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
Armor and blades
$ 26.50
$ 250.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
Interactive
6,300
Machine - For Sale
Sanford, NC
$ 1.00
Lighting - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
9,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Eau Claire, WI
$ 250.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
Interactive
$ 12.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
UpKick Pinball
Toys/Add-ons
$ 5.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
Protection
$ 299.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 20.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
Decals
$ 130.00
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
Plastics
From: $ 9,499.00
Pinball Machine
Paradise Distribution
Pinball Machine
$ 19.95
Lighting - Led
Mitchell Lighting
Led
$ 63.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
Eproms
£ 58.00
Lighting - Led
PinballToys
Led

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider lindsey.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nvram-experience?tu=lindsey and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.