(Topic ID: 141588)

NVRAM experience -- $1.50-$2.00 chips

By lyonsden

6 years ago


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There are 708 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 15.
#351 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Well, I ordered 20 FM1608-120-P IC's from aliexpress from "FU XING LCD" in mid-december at $22.50 per batch of 10 ($2.25 ea). They arrived yesterday (1/6). They were all stacked together, wrapped in plastic, and put into a small padded envelope.
With a neoloch tester, 10 chips tested good, 9 failed, and one had a broken leg.
20160107191319012_(resized).jpg

Stacked up like that, one ESD blast could go through numerous devices since they are electrically connected.

If you dont't think it is sitting right in the zif socket, stack on my SIP socket strips on the legs

#352 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Well, I ordered 20 FM1608-120-P IC's from aliexpress from "FU XING LCD"

The seller's business name is fitting in this case

#353 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Got another round of 1000pcs in. These look better than my last batch. So far each one i have read still had Ricoh copier stuff on them.
In my last round of 1000pcs i had maybe 5 bad ones out of the tube and only one report of DOA at a customer. Zero complaints otherwise.

Not to get into argument, but why post that here instead of the thread you have that's dedicated to what you're selling, where there's also a review about it there and the discussion on the "added value" (ie. guarantee for a length of time, testing before it goes out, etc) -- since this thread is mainly about other sources to import nvram directly & experience with what was bought.

Unless you want to post info on seller(s) you're importing from. At least they're shipping to you in tubes and not static-wrap lol.

#354 5 years ago

Here

Quoted from acebathound:

Not to get into argument, but why post that here instead of the thread you have that's dedicated to what you're selling, where there's also a review about it there and the discussion on the "added value" (ie. guarantee for a length of time, testing before it goes out, etc) -- since this thread is mainly about other sources to import nvram directly & experience with what was bought.
Unless you want to post info on seller(s) you're importing from. At least they're shipping to you in tubes and not static-wrap lol.

My best advice is to find a dedicated person who you can trust to shop the Shenzhen market for you.

#355 5 years ago

Basically, sharing knowledge and experience is the theme of this thread and both of you, Barakandl and Acebathound, have contributed greatly to this thread. When ordering in lots of 1000, I don't see to many people doing the same, and there are a good number of people who have benefited from the kits Barakandl has put together. However, it would be nice to know the supplier and if they were found on AliExpress/Alibaba or through some other means.

#356 5 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Basically, sharing knowledge and experience is the theme of this thread and both of you, Barakandl and Acebathound, have contributed greatly to this thread. When ordering in lots of 1000, I don't see to many people doing the same, and there are a good number of people who have benefited from the kits Barakandl has put together. However, it would be nice to know the supplier and if they were found on AliExpress/Alibaba or through some other means.

It is not a specific vendor. It is a middle man that shops shenzhen for me and I pay him for that service. Shenzhen is a "special economic zone". Which I assume means they cheat on the value of their money. If you buy electronic components from anywhere else, you are probably paying too much. You can get brand new in original manufacturer packaging from shenzhen, used pulls, remarks etc... You really need someone who you can trust though.

I give him lists of what I want and he tells me what is available. He is honest with what I get sent as we have an understanding the money stops if I end up getting bad components.

#357 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Here

My best advice is to find a dedicated person who you can trust to shop the Shenzhen market for you.

True. And that's the added value in someone doing as you are and reselling possibly better quality used chips (especially in terms of how they're packaged) and offering a guarantee that they will function properly. Eliminates the chance of getting something that doesn't work and having to go through the hassle of disputing an issue. But finding a good supplier is easier these days -- if you order something & it's crap, you don't order any more and dispute it.. move onto another seller. Not like it was 3-4 years ago when you were handing over money and wondering if you were going to get the item at all. Ebay and Aliexpress are both pretty easy to dispute things through and favor the buyer.

The key with Aliexpress is NOT CONFIRMING the order until you're happy.. since it's held in escrow and the seller will do what they can to make it right so they receive *something*. And don't accept a partial refund where the seller is then telling you they'll send an additional refund after that. Accepting any kind of partial refund essentially confirms the order & you're SOL on getting the rest of your money back. Mostly key for larger transactions, not the $10-20 stuff.

#358 5 years ago

Has anyone not received sockets from the Ebay seller that was linked earlier in this thread? The delivery window is listed until the 11th, so I have a few days left. I think it was a whopping $1.56 with shipping, so not a high $$ item if I don't get it.

#359 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

If you dont't think it is sitting right in the zif socket, stack on my SIP socket strips on the legs

Good idea---I should have both sockets and strips in my parts area.

#360 5 years ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

Has anyone not received sockets from the Ebay seller that was linked earlier in this thread? The delivery window is listed until the 11th, so I have a few days left. I think it was a whopping $1.56 with shipping, so not a high $$ item if I don't get it.

I've received components from both the EBay seller and one of the AliExpress sellers listed above.

#361 5 years ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

Has anyone not received sockets from the Ebay seller that was linked earlier in this thread? The delivery window is listed until the 11th, so I have a few days left. I think it was a whopping $1.56 with shipping, so not a high $$ item if I don't get it.

I received them also. They took the longest compared to my two separate orders of NVRams. I ordered them on Nov 12th I think I got them on Dec 26th

#362 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Good idea---I should have both sockets and strips in my parts area.

I ended up with a few more testing good in a socket. 15 good, 5 bad.

#363 5 years ago

I got my second order from a different seller. These were $21.38 for 10. All very nice, but all fm1608-120-P. These all seem to read fine in my GQ-4X. I was able to write to them to zero them out. Installed one in my JP. Worked perfect.
Same packaging as the other order. Almost same address, but all other contact info the same.

Also got some very nice sockets too. both styles round and dual wipe.

#364 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I ended up with a few more testing good in a socket. 15 good, 5 bad.

I wonder if the five bad ones are due to how they packaged the parts in plastic wrap.

#365 5 years ago

Well, I opened a dispute for the failed chips, and they rejected it. They wanted me to send them back to China. I figured it would be expensive, so I went through the USPS website just to see how much it would be--almost $43. Good grief.

Quoted from G-P-E:

I wonder if the five bad ones are due to how they packaged the parts in plastic wrap.

Who knows. It seems like it is similar to kitchen shrink wrap.

#366 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Well, I opened a dispute for the failed chips, and they rejected it. They wanted me to send them back to China. I figured it would be expensive, so I went through the USPS website just to see how much it would be--almost $43. Good grief.

Who knows. It seems like it is similar to kitchen shrink wrap.

I had the same issue with $25 worth of counterfeit voltage regulators. Lowest I could find was $19 to send them back. When the return time expired, I posted neg. feedback. This was an eBay purchase.

#367 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I went through the USPS website just to see how much it would be--almost $43.

That sounds like the priority international rate. First class international would be cheaper but probably not cheaper than what you paid for all 20 of them.

#368 5 years ago

any chance you would be willing to send me the bad nvram chips?
i would like to see what's up with them.

#369 5 years ago

Rub the imprint off of the failed ones and see if anything is below it. See if they are playing around with sending out remarks yet.

i have a few failed FM1608 if ForceFlow doesnt want to send any out.

#370 5 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

any chance you would be willing to send me the bad nvram chips?
i would like to see what's up with them.

Sure. I was trying again with the seller, so I'll probably wait to see how that works out first. The legs are good on three of them, and two have a broken leg. Feel free to shoot me a PM when you get a chance.

Quoted from barakandl:

Rub the imprint off of the failed ones and see if anything is below it. See if they are playing around with sending out remarks yet.

Ok, I'll check.

#371 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Rub the imprint off of the failed ones and see if anything is below it. See if they are playing around with sending out remarks yet.

Rubbing with my finger or an eraser doesn't have an effect on the text on the chip. Is there something else I should try? I'm no expert, but they don't seem like remarks to me since the chip still has texture to it and the ink seems to hold up.

20160110160604668_(resized).jpg

20160110160550601_(resized).jpg

#372 5 years ago

Those are questionable in a few places and here is my opinion and why....

The batch / date code is the same on every single one. In my experience getting used not remarked pulls from China, it is uncommon to see matching date codes / batch codes in more than a few in a row. All chips having the same date code can be suspect of remarks when buying used chips.

2nd. I think the font is wrong. I believe the "1" character should have a bar at the bottom and your picture does not. I found one of mine with a similar date code and I will include a picture.

It still could be legit though, hard to really say, maybe they changed the font in year 2005 at some point. I can dig through my new stock and look for some around that date and maybe see.

I have had luck sanding off imprints and finding stuff below. Inspecting the bottom side of the chip can tell too sometimes.

20160110_161705_(2)_(resized).jpg

#373 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Those are questionable in a few places and here is my opinion and here is why....
The batch / date code is the same on every single one. In my expierence getting used pulls from China, it is uncommon to see matching date codes / batch codes in more than a few in a row.
2nd. I think the font is wrong. I believe the "1" character should have a bar at the bottom and your picture does not. I found one of mine with a similar date code and I will include a picture.
It still could be legit though, hard to really say, maybe they changed the font in year 2005 at some point. I can dig through my new stock and look for some around that date and maybe see.
I have had luck sanding off imprints and finding stuff below. Inspecting the bottom side of the chip can tell too sometimes.
20160110_161705_(2)_(resized).jpg

All 20 chips have the same date code.

Photos of the bottom:

20160110163814717_(resized).jpg

20160110164222215_(resized).jpg

#374 5 years ago

The bottoms would push me more into thinking those could be remarked since how the bottom looks compared to how nice the top is. That being said, the underside imprint looks correct. You should see those two indents one with a country stamp (TH or S i think) the other with a number, I think I see the 07 stamp in the indents when i zoom in. I see that on my -P versions as well.

Just cuz it is remarked, doesn't mean it will not work.

bottom imprints zoom in from the FM1608 i pictured above. One say "07" probably some sort of manufacturing spot or batch number. The other says "TH" which probably stands for Thailand.

_2_20160110_170053[1]_(resized).jpg

_1_20160110_170053[1]_(resized).jpg

#375 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

The bottoms would push me more into thinking those could be remarked since how the bottom looks compared to how nice the top is. That being said, the underside imprint looks correct. You should see those two indents one with a country stamp (TH or S i think) the other with a number, I think I see the 07 stamp in the indents when i zoom in. I see that on my -P versions as well.

Nice info there Andrew (well really in the last few posts). Good if people are importing these chips themselves (or any type of chips really) to know what to look for & learn to be your own detective with the stuff. Probably best to make a sample purchase and figure out what is being sold before making a larger order thinking you hit gold.

#376 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

The bottoms would push me more into thinking those could be remarked since how the bottom looks compared to how nice the top is. That being said, the underside imprint looks correct. You should see those two indents one with a country stamp (TH or S i think) the other with a number, I think I see the 07 stamp in the indents when i zoom in. I see that on my -P versions as well.
Just cuz it is remarked, doesn't mean it will not work.
bottom imprints zoom in from the FM1608 i pictured above. One say "07" probably some sort of manufacturing spot or batch number. The other says "TH" which probably stands for Thailand.
_2_20160110_170053[1]_(resized).jpg
_1_20160110_170053[1]_(resized).jpg

04 and TH on the set of chips I recieved.

#377 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Well, I opened a dispute for the failed chips, and they rejected it. They wanted me to send them back to China. I figured it would be expensive, so I went through the USPS website just to see how much it would be--almost $43. Good grief.

Who knows. It seems like it is similar to kitchen shrink wrap.

In other hobbies the Asian sellers offer future credits or discounts to offset the need for returns. To keep their rep... Etc and keep us Buyers coming and not being scared of ordering

#378 5 years ago

Can someone post a summary of this thread? What are the right chips to get on Ali to put in what pinball systems? Are they just straight DIP replacements?

#379 5 years ago

There are some active links for aliexpress which will get you some of the lower priced NVRAM being discussed beginning at post #34 in this thread.

And yes, this is for 6264 style dip packages that are plug and play is SOME applications.

#380 5 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

True. And that's the added value in someone doing as you are and reselling possibly better quality used chips (especially in terms of how they're packaged) and offering a guarantee that they will function properly. Eliminates the chance of getting something that doesn't work and having to go through the hassle of disputing an issue. But finding a good supplier is easier these days -- if you order something & it's crap, you don't order any more and dispute it.. move onto another seller. Not like it was 3-4 years ago when you were handing over money and wondering if you were going to get the item at all. Ebay and Aliexpress are both pretty easy to dispute things through and favor the buyer.
The key with Aliexpress is NOT CONFIRMING the order until you're happy.. since it's held in escrow and the seller will do what they can to make it right so they receive *something*. And don't accept a partial refund where the seller is then telling you they'll send an additional refund after that. Accepting any kind of partial refund essentially confirms the order & you're SOL on getting the rest of your money back. Mostly key for larger transactions, not the $10-20 stuff.

It looks like my dispute was successful.

Keeping what you said here in mind, I held my ground, and eventually, they caved after a few days and issued the partial refund I was looking for to cover the bad/damaged chips I received.

The seller basically kept messaging me this several times trying to get me to cancel the dispute:

Friend, please cancel the dispute!!!!!
We can negotiate!!!!!!Make you satisfied!
Please believe me!
I only do the service!Let you buy the rest assured!!!!!

#381 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

It looks like my dispute was successful.

Good to hear! Thanks for the update.

#382 5 years ago
Quoted from hackbar:

Can someone post a summary of this thread?

I was hoping somebody would post a primer on the use of NVRAM, or possibly an entry for Pinwiki.

#383 5 years ago
Quoted from johninc:

I was hoping somebody would post a primer on the use of NVRAM, or possibly an entry for Pinwiki.

NVRAM (non-volitile RAM) is being used to replace volatile RAM. Volatile RAM can only store data if power is applied to the chip. If power is lost, so is the data.

Various game systems use different types of RAM, so adapters are needed to adapt the footprint and pinout of the 6264 NVRAM pinout to the RAM socket that the game system is using.

The NVRAM adapters typically list which RAM socket and/or game systems they are intended to support.

-1
#384 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

NVRAM (non-volitile RAM) is being used to replace volatile RAM. Volatile RAM can only store data if power is applied to the chip. If power is lost, so is the data.
Various game systems use different types of RAM, so adapters are needed to adapt the footprint and pinout of the 6264 NVRAM pinout to the RAM socket that the game system is using.
The NVRAM adapters typically list which RAM socket and/or game systems they are intended to support.

Buy the way: NVRAM-Adapter is a silly word, exactly said it is an adapter with NVRAM

#385 5 years ago
Quoted from johninc:

I was hoping somebody would post a primer on the use of NVRAM, or possibly an entry for Pinwiki.

Ok, I got the pinwiki article started. Feel free to go at it guys:

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=MPU_Battery_Replacement_Options

#386 5 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

Buy the way: NVRAM-Adapter is a silly word, exactly said it is an adapter with NVRAM

I don't think it's that silly. However, I've always been amused at the way smaller German words are sometimes compounded to form a new word. Fledermausmann is one of my favorites (which is literally translated as flying mouse man, aka Batman)

#387 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Ok, I got the pinwiki article started.

Great, thanks!

#388 5 years ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

Has anyone not received sockets from the Ebay seller that was linked earlier in this thread? The delivery window is listed until the 11th, so I have a few days left. I think it was a whopping $1.56 with shipping, so not a high $$ item if I don't get it.

I sent an inquiry through Ebay on the status of my order and they sent me a refund. Time to order sockets from somewhere else.

#389 5 years ago

Thought I would let you guys know that I bought some of these RAMs and more than half failed testing.

ebay.com link: 50PCS FM16W08 Encapsulation SOP28

I figured someone would get burned on these at some point. Turns out it was me.

Anyone want to point me to some cheap options for SOIC FM16W08 which will actually work?

#390 5 years ago
Quoted from Lindsey:

Thought I would let you guys know that I bought some of these RAMs and more than half failed testing.
ebay.com link » 50pcs Fm16w08 Encapsulation Sop28
I figured someone would get burned on these at some point. Turns out it was me.
Anyone want to point me to some cheap options for SOIC FM16W08 which will actually work?

That sucks! Good for the community to know though that there is some bad stuff out there, thanks for posting that!

Did you check if pin #14 was shorted to pin #28 on those?

#391 5 years ago

It was definitely a kick in the nuts for my first attempt at buying "cheap" FRAMs to end in abysmal failure.

Quoted from acebathound:

Did you check if pin #14 was shorted to pin #28 on those?

I just checked a few and the failed ones read the same as the ones which pass. They don't fail consistently. Some fail all tests, and some pass a few but fail others.

Here's the rig I'm using to test them:

FRAM_Testing_(resized).JPG

I thought it might be an issue with the ZIF sockets or something so I soldered a couple to 6264 adapters and tested them again. Same results. These chips are trash.

#392 5 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

That sucks! Good for the community to know though that there is some bad stuff out there, thanks for posting that!
Did you check if pin #14 was shorted to pin #28 on those?

Have you seen some fail in that mode? That is VSS to VDD. I know the NeoLoch ram tester will reboot itself if you try and test a chip that is shorted VSS to VDD.

#393 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Have you seen some fail in that mode? That is VSS to VDD. I know the NeoLoch ram tester will reboot itself if you try and test a chip that is shorted VSS to VDD.

Sure, but they were bad chips from the beginning. That was part of the reason I've cautioned against counterfeits for so long, especially for those creating products with the chips. Lindsey's post is a good reminder, there's probably a decent amount of good, working stuff out there that you can import.. but there's some duds too.

In my case these were chips I bought early-on in (2012/2013) and verified with RAMTRON to be legit via lot numbers. Also sent some samples to a counterfeit IC detection company for testing & the dies checked out. Not sure what was up. After finding out that's what the issue was a few times, I started checking them right out of the package & caught a few more that were shorted. I probably found 3-4 like that out of a hundred. Between that & the fact those imported chips still cost $3.50 or so up until a year or two ago (you were maybe saving $1.00 back in 2013 by importing).. the cost savings weren't worth the headache.

Today's market.. yeah it's a bit different. $2 or less for smd nvram if you import it, and from authorized distributors it's gone the other way.. as much as $8-10 in smaller quantities. Kind of sucks that it's basically forced just about anyone building them to consider using imported parts.

#394 5 years ago

What is a good option for a cheap ram tester . I bought a bunch of these but don't have a tester. What happened if you install a bad or shorted one into a game?

#395 5 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

What is a good option for a cheap ram tester . I bought a bunch of these but don't have a tester. What happened if you install a bad or shorted one into a game?

http://www.neoloch.com/products/Inquisitor.php

Or, someone posted the previous version in the marketplace:

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/ad/29713

Depending on the exact issue, the NVRAM could simply not work, or power could short through the chip and damage other chips on the board.

#396 5 years ago

Just got 10 DIPS's in from the previously linked vendor--all were 120-P. Packaging was crap as others have stated. Before testing I straightened any pins and ultrasonically cleaned the pins. Three out of the 10 failed (tested multiple times).

#397 5 years ago

I just got 20 in for AliExpress and of the 20 nvrams, one failed. they were packaged in a stack and shrink wrapped in the typical crappy manner. from what i've found i usually get one bad nvram per order. like they know they are bad, and they just throw one in to keep you on your toes. that's been my experience at least.

On the 20 cent nvrams, they never arrived. was running out of time and had to file a dispute. they have granted the dispute and are issuing a $7 refund. kind of didn't think that order would go through...

#398 5 years ago

Still haven't gotten my ~$2 from aliexpress. Shipped out from China 1-5 though. Ordered 20 of them so we'll see. May order more as 40-60 would probably be good for me for a long time.

#399 5 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

What is a good option for a cheap ram tester . I bought a bunch of these but don't have a tester.

I have one of these, works great. Make offer if interested. http://www.neoloch.com/products/NLT-28P-12LED-5S.php

#400 5 years ago

In case I missed it, where can I buy non-bootleg guaranteed or at least likely to work Nvram for a Ripley's whitestar? I can swing the $6.

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