(Topic ID: 141588)

NVRAM experience -- $1.50-$2.00 chips


By lyonsden

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 months ago by pencilneck
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There are 695 posts in this topic. You are on page 14 of 14.
#651 10 months ago

My last batch of 1608 were defective as well. Same ebay seller.

#652 10 months ago
Quoted from Astill:

My last batch of 1608 were defective as well. Same ebay seller.

I'm pretty sure I bought from him a few years ago and they were all good. But this time out of a set of 10. 5 would lock the cpu on boot up, 2 would read ram failure and 3 work but won't save data after turning off the game. Got refund from him and ordered from a set of 10 from this seller. Won't get them for a month but will post back if they're good.
ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Dip 28

#653 10 months ago
Quoted from Astill:

My last batch of 1608 were defective as well. Same ebay seller.

I had a bad batch of 20 ordered in may this year also from the same seller.

#654 10 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Just a FYI. Finally ran out of my old stock of nvram. Bought from same ebay seller (after a couple years) and this time all were bad. Did get a refund but still sucks. If anyone else got from them and they worked let me know.
ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Fm1608 120 P Fm1608 64kbit Fram Nvram Dip28

Quoted from Astill:

My last batch of 1608 were defective as well. Same ebay seller.

Quoted from cudabee:

I had a bad batch of 20 ordered in may this year also from the same seller.

Guess it's safe tp say DO NOT BUY FROM THIS EBAY SELLER!!!!!!!!!!!! adeleparts2010

pasted_image (resized).png
#655 10 months ago

I ordered mine in 2017 from the same reseller and they work perfectly fine in my WPC/WPC95 and DataEast machines.

#656 10 months ago
Quoted from lucky1:

I ordered mine in 2017 from the same reseller and they work perfectly fine in my WPC/WPC95 and DataEast machines.

Same with me. I ordered 20 of them around same year and they all worked in W-system 11 b-c, WPC all and Stern whitestar.
Guess they changed suppliers.

#657 10 months ago
Quoted from Borygard:

There's one fantastic reason to try and save it, and it's the best reason of all... If you can't remove an IC on a board you're working on in one useable piece, you shouldn't be doing board work.

These are my thought exactly; in fact the game should be 100% operations with the original RAM you removed installed in the socket you added to the board...if you can't achieve this than maybe you should consider sending it out.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/55#post-4860527

#658 10 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

These are my thought exactly; in fact the game should be 100% operations with the original RAM you removed installed in the socket you added to the board...if you can't achieve this than maybe you should consider sending it out.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/55#post-4860527

I can remove it in one piece but why when its so much easier to clip the legs off the old chip? I will never use the original chip again. Even if the nvram went bad id get another nvram.

#659 10 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Same with me. I ordered 20 of them around same year and they all worked in W-system 11 b-c, WPC all and Stern whitestar.
Guess they changed suppliers.

That's unfortunate...I also had ordered several dozen of the 256Kbit chips a few years back and they all worked perfectly.

#660 10 months ago
Quoted from Mitch:

I can remove it in one piece but why when its so much easier to clip the legs off the old chip? I will never use the original chip again. Even if the nvram went bad id get another nvram.

It defines a level of board repair skill that most people just don't have anymore. There is more to board repair than just removing the IC, you also have to not overheat the board which can cause damage to the board itself. Having the RAM still function after its removed means you did not exceed any temperature thresholds when removing the part.

Quoted from Mitch:

its so much easier to clip the legs off the old chip?

I actually disagree that lead clipping is easier than removing the part intact. If you have professional level desolating skills and equipment, its actually easier to remove the part intact and you will also never accidentally sever a trace with your clippers.

#661 10 months ago

I just use a chainsaw and a blowtorch....Key is to have at least three Heady Toppers first. Looks professional when finished, every time.

No one buys from Aliexpress anymore?

#662 10 months ago
Quoted from Irishbastard:

I just use a chainsaw and a blowtorch....Key is to have at least three Heady Toppers first. Looks professional when finished, every time.
No one buys from Aliexpress anymore?

I keep a nice, 24oz 'ball-peen' IC installation tool in the garage. Sounds like you can use one of those.

#663 10 months ago
Quoted from Irishbastard:

I just use a chainsaw and a blowtorch....Key is to have at least three Heady Toppers first. Looks professional when finished, every time.
No one buys from Aliexpress anymore?

I was going to ask if anyone has tried sellers on Ali. It has been a few years since I purchased these, and the last batch I bought of 20+, all were good (or perhaps one was bad -- I can't remember.) . I still have about 10 left, but just purchased another 10 from this seller: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32596337719.html

I'll report back when I get them and have a chance to test them.

#664 10 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I actually disagree that lead clipping is easier than removing the part intact. If you have professional level desolating skills and equipment, its actually easier to remove the part intact and you will also never accidentally sever a trace with your clippers.

Any "pro" knows the right way to snip IC legs... there's no way to damage the PCB if you're doing it right. I have a Pace desoldering station, but I still snip and pluck when replacing a common component. It's safer (less heat, and no chance of pulling a top-side trace) and I can actually do it faster. But then again, I've replaced hundreds (maybe thousands?) of RAM chips this way. The important thing is that you do what you're comfortable with, and can perform safely. If I'm working on someone else's board, I'm not taking any risks that may cause me to have to do additional work.

And yes, I am quite familiar with botched NVRAM installs from people who think they know how to use a soldering iron (I am the guy behind scoresaves.com). I occasionally repair failed installs from customers. You'd be shocked and appalled at what I've seen....

#665 10 months ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

I was going to ask if anyone has tried sellers on Ali. It has been a few years since I purchased these, and the last batch I bought of 20+, all were good (or perhaps one was bad -- I can't remember.) . I still have about 10 left, but just purchased another 10 from this seller: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32596337719.html
I'll report back when I get them and have a chance to test them.

I've bought well over 50 NVRAM chips from AliExpress. I've never had a single chip fail. I have had one or two that ended up with broken legs as the packaging of these is typically nothing more than stacking them up and wrapping them, then placing in a small padded envelope.

#666 10 months ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

Any "pro" knows the right way to snip IC legs... there's no way to damage the PCB if you're doing it right. I have a Pace desoldering station, but I still snip and pluck when replacing a common component. It's safer (less heat, and no chance of pulling a top-side trace) and I can actually do it faster. But then again, I've replaced hundreds (maybe thousands?) of RAM chips this way. The important thing is that you do what you're comfortable with, and can perform safely. If I'm working on someone else's board, I'm not taking any risks that may cause me to have to do additional work.
And yes, I am quite familiar with botched NVRAM installs from people who think they know how to use a soldering iron (I am the guy behind scoresaves.com). I occasionally repair failed installs from customers. You'd be shocked and appalled at what I've seen....

I used to repair a lot of video game boards. Did hundreds of Mcr and Atari boards sets. Those I would always pull the chips out in one piece. Never had a problem. With any pinball board like Got system 3, Williams system 11 or WPC boards I'm cutting the legs off one side of the chip. Chips are cheap. Boards are expensive.

1 week later
#667 9 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

I'm pretty sure I bought from him a few years ago and they were all good. But this time out of a set of 10. 5 would lock the cpu on boot up, 2 would read ram failure and 3 work but won't save data after turning off the game. Got refund from him and ordered from a set of 10 from this seller. Won't get them for a month but will post back if they're good.
ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Dip 28

Well good news.only took 11 days to get my nvram and so far I tested 3 of the 10 and all good. Came to $1.95 each. From EBay.
ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Dip 28

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#668 9 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Well good news.only took 11 days to get my nvram and so far I tested 3 of the 10 and all good. Came to $1.95 each. From EBay.
ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Dip 28[quoted image]

For sure a remark with the 2019 date code but if it works and only $2 that is a steal. With a remark they could be the older RAM chips with the brown out issue where there is less compatibility tho.

Has anyone else noticed the 2005 and earlier chips act up in some systems? In WMS 3-7 and bally -35 if you power cycle the game twice quickly before the 5/12v goes all the way flat the next boot up will get a ram failure and possible corruption.

ones that look like this seem the best. The case and imprint is always 2006+ from what I have seen. These always work in bally / wms 3-7 games.
pasted_image (resized).png

ones that look like this are older and get the failure to boot if you power cycle twice in some systems before the 5/12v collapses all the way in wms 3-7 and bally -35 type mpu boards. They still seem fine in WPC, WhiteStar and DE/Sega boards.
pasted_image (resized).png

There is a third type made in china from early 2000s that looks even different that I can't find a picture of easily. They have the same symptom that the above one does.

I assume it is related to this note in the data sheet but I have had the power cycle twice quickly ram failure with up to a 2005 date code.
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#669 9 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

For sure a remark with the 2019 date code but if it works and only $2 that is a steal. With a remark they could be the older RAM chips with the brown out issue where there is less compatibility tho.
Has anyone else noticed the 2005 and earlier chips act up in some systems? In WMS 3-7 and bally -35 if you power cycle the game twice quickly before the 5/12v goes all the way flat the next boot up will get a ram failure and possible corruption.
ones that look like this seem the best. The case and imprint is always 2006+ from what I have seen. These always work in bally / wms 3-7 games.
[quoted image]
ones that look like this are older and get the failure to boot if you power cycle twice in some systems before the 5/12v collapses all the way in wms 3-7 and bally -35 type mpu boards. They still seem fine in WPC, WhiteStar and DE/Sega boards.
[quoted image]
There is a third type made in china from early 2000s that looks even different that I can't find a picture of easily. They have the same symptom that the above one does.
I assume it is related to this note in the data sheet but I have had the power cycle twice quickly ram failure with up to a 2005 date code.
[quoted image]

What is brownouts?
I’m only using them for system 11 and Stern whitestar so should be good then.

#670 9 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

What is brownouts?
I’m only using them for system 11 and Stern whitestar so should be good then.

I have not tested system 11, but you may want to try power cycling twice quickly and see if you get a RAM failure with an old date code chip. WMS 3-7 is effected and sys 11 uses the same PS as sys 7 in a lot of games. Stern White Star works fine with the old date code chips and power cycling quickly.

I assume a brown out is when a write or maybe read happens when the Vcc is below the working voltage.

Also noticed that when I use a Bally SDB with a switcher power supply the old date code chips work fine if you power cycle the game quickly. Its only the linear power supplier that get a ram failure and possible corruption when you power cycle twice quickly.

Here is the 3rd FM1608 chip package flavor that also seems to have the power cycle quick issue. I think these are the oldest date codes in this package. Year 2000.
pasted_image (resized).png

#671 9 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

These are my thought exactly; in fact the game should be 100% operations with the original RAM you removed installed in the socket you added to the board...if you can't achieve this than maybe you should consider sending it out.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/55#post-4860527

I don't see anything wrong with clipping the legs, especially if there's a lot of board corrosion. I generally will remove them and keep them usable just in case. But if people feel more comfortable clipping the legs then I'd rather them do that than destroy a board trying to take it out in one piece.

#672 9 months ago

I bought these, and to be fair I’ve only used one of them (in a WPC game), and it’s working perfectly.

ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Fm1608 120 P Fm1608 64kbit Fram Nvram Dip28

#673 9 months ago

Receive my 10 NVRAM from the AliExpress link on the first post. All tested good. Appear to be pulls with the legs cleaned and straightened. No idea on the dates given the post above. Photos below are of how they are packed and maybe a shot that lets the date codes be read.

D0A29810-8035-453B-8038-D3B24F43A09F (resized).jpegC34151AD-9662-43CB-8066-7A5216B7A07F (resized).jpeg04C6865A-9064-4994-8FF7-8F959B036B78 (resized).jpeg
#674 9 months ago

Poorly packaged in cellophane wrap -- nearly as bad as white packing peanuts for static discharge.

Tooling holes are clean. Clean tooling holes means the parts have probably not been blacktopped and remarked. These are probably originals....used but originals. Varying date codes such as these is also indicative of used but original parts. Rough tooling holes tend to be a part that requires a second look. Rough tooling holes are sometimes originals and sometimes are indicative of the parts being 'blacktopped' or repainted.

#675 9 months ago

Your pictures shows you have all the newer ones which is better since they don't seem to act up in some systems if you power cycle twice quickly. Best I can tell only seems like old bally and WMS games are effected. Most people are probably not going to be trying to use a dip28 nvram in those systems anyways.

I see an FM1608M in there. Anyone know what that M suffix means as it does not seem to show up in the data sheet? It also has a different dye revision letter in front of the date code. Also have one FM1608B in there which are faster but shouldnt matter in any pinball application.

When I read the data off of these used pulls most indicate in readable text that they came out of a Ricoh Aficio copy machine NVRAM modules. Like this thing I found searching in google.

pasted_image (resized).png

#676 9 months ago

Last time I pulled data off from this vendor they were from Ricoh copy machines. Also, the last three orders from them were packed the same way. Stacked chips wrapped in cellophane. Not the best, but for $17 for 10 chips (including shipping), I don't have higher expectations.

Here is a link to the vendor: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32596337719.html

#677 9 months ago

I have a bunch of these chips I bought back in the day I just found (and lost again.... have to look for them) but they weren't cheap. At $2/pop wouldn't matter since it's cheap, although at this point I just use the surface mount nvram adapters that weebly and others sell.... not worth my time to roll my own adapters (although I did not know they were a direct replacement for wpc rams? 6264 replaced with a 1608?) - I'll have to convert my remaining WPC games over when I find the chips again.

#678 9 months ago

I bought about 100 of these from AliExpress about 5 years ago... All of them have read Ricoh copiers when I hook them up to programmer.

#679 9 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I see an FM1608M in there. Anyone know what that M suffix means as it does not seem to show up in the data sheet? It also has a different dye revision letter in front of the date code.

I'd guess M is for Military grade. Usually can handle more extreme temps, etc.

#680 9 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

I have a bunch of these chips I bought back in the day I just found (and lost again.... have to look for them) but they weren't cheap. At $2/pop wouldn't matter since it's cheap, although at this point I just use the surface mount nvram adapters that weebly and others sell.... not worth my time to roll my own adapters (although I did not know they were a direct replacement for wpc rams? 6264 replaced with a 1608?) - I'll have to convert my remaining WPC games over when I find the chips again.

FM16W08 surface mount based NVRAM modules have 100 trillion R/W endurance where the FM1608 dip28 only have 1 trillion endurance too. You can measure the /CE frequency and get a good idea how long they should last but on a used pull you do not know how much endurance is left in the chip. I am guessing the endurance figure is a conservative number and they would not get much of workout in those Ricoh NVRAM modules but you just don't know.

#681 9 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

FM16W08 surface mount based NVRAM modules have 100 trillion R/W endurance where the FM1608 dip28 only have 1 trillion endurance too. You can measure the /CE frequency and get a good idea how long they should last but on a used pull you do not know how much endurance is left in the chip. I am guessing the endurance figure is a conservative number and they would not get much of workout in those Ricoh NVRAM modules but you just don't know.

These are all brand new chips.... bought years ago.

#682 9 months ago
Quoted from acebathound:

I'd guess M is for Military grade....

Military parts would have MIL-M-38510 part marking - radically different from what is marked above (plus they would be ceramic). Non-military parts but still screened for military use would be marked with "883" at the end for MIL-STD-883 screened.

In this case, "M" is simply the die revision for 1608 parts. Revision "M" was a common die revision for these parts.
Normally, Ramtron does not put the die revision on the part marking.

#683 9 months ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Military parts would have MIL-M-38510 part marking - radically different from what is marked above (plus they would be ceramic). Non-military parts but still screened for military use would be marked with "883" at the end for MIL-STD-883 screened.
In this case, "M" is simply the die revision for 1608 parts. Revision "M" was a common die revision for these parts.
Normally, Ramtron does not put the die revision on the part marking.

datasheets say the letter before date code is the dye revision. The FM1608M says revsion A where the FM1608 all usually have revision M.

Untitled (resized).png

Measured 31000 Hz in a bally game attract mode. Assuming worst case where every access is in the same row (which more than likely is not) FM1608 endurance would be about a year straight powered on 24/7. FM16W08 would be 100 years.

3 weeks later
#684 8 months ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Last time I pulled data off from this vendor they were from Ricoh copy machines. Also, the last three orders from them were packed the same way. Stacked chips wrapped in cellophane. Not the best, but for $17 for 10 chips (including shipping), I don't have higher expectations.
Here is a link to the vendor: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32596337719.html

Bought from the same vendor and got mine today wrapped in cellophane. All 10 passed in my NeoLoch

#685 8 months ago
Quoted from CanadianPinball:

Bought from the same vendor and got mine today wrapped in cellophane. All 10 passed in my NeoLoch

I can use these in other projects too so I bought 50. They came in cellophane wrap too. Unfortunately about a dozen failed testing. On the bright side they were cheap enough that it was still worth it for the rest.

#686 8 months ago

Has anybody got a good/trusted ebay source/link for cheap nvram 6264? i want to put one in my Sega Goldeneye and I believe it's just plug and play by popping out the old chip and putting the nvram 6264 in so looking for a cheap source of them. Thanks

#687 8 months ago
Quoted from Johno75:

Has anybody got a good/trusted ebay source/link for cheap nvram 6264? i want to put one in my Sega Goldeneye and I believe it's just plug and play by popping out the old chip and putting the nvram 6264 in so looking for a cheap source of them. Thanks

Why does it have to be ebay and not just pinitech, weebly, anypin, etc.?

#688 8 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Why does it have to be ebay and not just pinitech, weebly, anypin, etc.?

becase I was looking to get the cheap $1.50 - $2.00 chips

#689 8 months ago
Quoted from Johno75:

Has anybody got a good/trusted ebay source/link for cheap nvram 6264? i want to put one in my Sega Goldeneye and I believe it's just plug and play by popping out the old chip and putting the nvram 6264 in so looking for a cheap source of them. Thanks

How many do you need? Best I can do is $10 each in small quantities.
(to clarify, my chips are not ferroRAM)

#690 8 months ago
Quoted from Johno75:

Has anybody got a good/trusted ebay source/link for cheap nvram 6264? i want to put one in my Sega Goldeneye and I believe it's just plug and play by popping out the old chip and putting the nvram 6264 in so looking for a cheap source of them. Thanks

Grab some on Aliexpress, they are a little over a buck shipped.

(Link from few posts back)

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32596337719.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

#691 8 months ago
Quoted from Irishbastard:

Grab some on Aliexpress, they are a little over a buck shipped.
(Link from few posts back)
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32596337719.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

Thanks, just placed an order.

#692 8 months ago
Quoted from Pinballer73:

Thanks, just placed an order.

Me too. Will see how they work out.

#693 8 months ago

Darn, I just placed a second order this weekend, but still nothing on sale that I needed.

3 weeks later
#694 7 months ago

Just finished the dreaded TZ board upgrade. Honestly, the Hakko made it easy. Cheapo nvram installed and she’s up and running.

Man I love doing board work. That has to be one of the more intricate jobs, but it went smoothly. Cheap and fun for a Saturday night...

Quoted from PinJim:

I bought these, and to be fair I’ve only used one of them (in a WPC game), and it’s working perfectly.
ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Fm1608 120 P Fm1608 64kbit Fram Nvram Dip28

3 months later
#695 4 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Well good news.only took 11 days to get my nvram and so far I tested 3 of the 10 and all good. Came to $1.95 each. From EBay.
ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Dip 28[quoted image]

I purchased from same seller, took over a month to get the chips, but I'm pretty sure that was due to world events. Flip side, I had plenty of time to do the installs on my pins. Three Williams WPCs upgraded, and a 45 second swap on a Data East.

ebay.com link » 10pcs Fm1608 120 Pg Dip 28

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