My last batch of 1608 were defective as well. Same ebay seller.

I'm pretty sure I bought from him a few years ago and they were all good. But this time out of a set of 10. 5 would lock the cpu on boot up, 2 would read ram failure and 3 work but won't save data after turning off the game. Got refund from him and ordered from a set of 10 from this seller. Won't get them for a month but will post back if they're good.
ebay.com link: 10PCS FM1608 120 PG DIP 28

I had a bad batch of 20 ordered in may this year also from the same seller.

Guess it's safe tp say DO NOT BUY FROM THIS EBAY SELLER!!!!!!!!!!!! adeleparts2010

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I ordered mine in 2017 from the same reseller and they work perfectly fine in my WPC/WPC95 and DataEast machines.

Same with me. I ordered 20 of them around same year and they all worked in W-system 11 b-c, WPC all and Stern whitestar.
Guess they changed suppliers.

These are my thought exactly; in fact the game should be 100% operations with the original RAM you removed installed in the socket you added to the board...if you can't achieve this than maybe you should consider sending it out.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club/page/55#post-4860527

I can remove it in one piece but why when its so much easier to clip the legs off the old chip? I will never use the original chip again. Even if the nvram went bad id get another nvram.

That's unfortunate...I also had ordered several dozen of the 256Kbit chips a few years back and they all worked perfectly.

It defines a level of board repair skill that most people just don't have anymore. There is more to board repair than just removing the IC, you also have to not overheat the board which can cause damage to the board itself. Having the RAM still function after its removed means you did not exceed any temperature thresholds when removing the part.

I actually disagree that lead clipping is easier than removing the part intact. If you have professional level desolating skills and equipment, its actually easier to remove the part intact and you will also never accidentally sever a trace with your clippers.

I just use a chainsaw and a blowtorch....Key is to have at least three Heady Toppers first. Looks professional when finished, every time.

No one buys from Aliexpress anymore?

I keep a nice, 24oz 'ball-peen' IC installation tool in the garage. Sounds like you can use one of those.

Any "pro" knows the right way to snip IC legs... there's no way to damage the PCB if you're doing it right. I have a Pace desoldering station, but I still snip and pluck when replacing a common component. It's safer (less heat, and no chance of pulling a top-side trace) and I can actually do it faster. But then again, I've replaced hundreds (maybe thousands?) of RAM chips this way. The important thing is that you do what you're comfortable with, and can perform safely. If I'm working on someone else's board, I'm not taking any risks that may cause me to have to do additional work.

And yes, I am quite familiar with botched NVRAM installs from people who think they know how to use a soldering iron (I am the guy behind scoresaves.com). I occasionally repair failed installs from customers. You'd be shocked and appalled at what I've seen....

I've bought well over 50 NVRAM chips from AliExpress. I've never had a single chip fail. I have had one or two that ended up with broken legs as the packaging of these is typically nothing more than stacking them up and wrapping them, then placing in a small padded envelope.

I used to repair a lot of video game boards. Did hundreds of Mcr and Atari boards sets. Those I would always pull the chips out in one piece. Never had a problem. With any pinball board like Got system 3, Williams system 11 or WPC boards I'm cutting the legs off one side of the chip. Chips are cheap. Boards are expensive.

Well good news.only took 11 days to get my nvram and so far I tested 3 of the 10 and all good. Came to $1.95 each. From EBay.
ebay.com link: 10PCS FM1608 120 PG DIP 28

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For sure a remark with the 2019 date code but if it works and only $2 that is a steal. With a remark they could be the older RAM chips with the brown out issue where there is less compatibility tho.

Has anyone else noticed the 2005 and earlier chips act up in some systems? In WMS 3-7 and bally -35 if you power cycle the game twice quickly before the 5/12v goes all the way flat the next boot up will get a ram failure and possible corruption.

ones that look like this seem the best. The case and imprint is always 2006+ from what I have seen. These always work in bally / wms 3-7 games.
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ones that look like this are older and get the failure to boot if you power cycle twice in some systems before the 5/12v collapses all the way in wms 3-7 and bally -35 type mpu boards. They still seem fine in WPC, WhiteStar and DE/Sega boards.
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There is a third type made in china from early 2000s that looks even different that I can't find a picture of easily. They have the same symptom that the above one does.

I assume it is related to this note in the data sheet but I have had the power cycle twice quickly ram failure with up to a 2005 date code.
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What is brownouts?
I’m only using them for system 11 and Stern whitestar so should be good then.

I have not tested system 11, but you may want to try power cycling twice quickly and see if you get a RAM failure with an old date code chip. WMS 3-7 is effected and sys 11 uses the same PS as sys 7 in a lot of games. Stern White Star works fine with the old date code chips and power cycling quickly.

I assume a brown out is when a write or maybe read happens when the Vcc is below the working voltage.

Also noticed that when I use a Bally SDB with a switcher power supply the old date code chips work fine if you power cycle the game quickly. Its only the linear power supplier that get a ram failure and possible corruption when you power cycle twice quickly.

Here is the 3rd FM1608 chip package flavor that also seems to have the power cycle quick issue. I think these are the oldest date codes in this package. Year 2000.
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I don't see anything wrong with clipping the legs, especially if there's a lot of board corrosion. I generally will remove them and keep them usable just in case. But if people feel more comfortable clipping the legs then I'd rather them do that than destroy a board trying to take it out in one piece.

I bought these, and to be fair I’ve only used one of them (in a WPC game), and it’s working perfectly.

ebay.com link: 10pcs FM1608 120 PG FM1608 120 P FM1608 64Kbit FRAM NVRAM DIP28

Poorly packaged in cellophane wrap -- nearly as bad as white packing peanuts for static discharge.

Tooling holes are clean. Clean tooling holes means the parts have probably not been blacktopped and remarked. These are probably originals....used but originals. Varying date codes such as these is also indicative of used but original parts. Rough tooling holes tend to be a part that requires a second look. Rough tooling holes are sometimes originals and sometimes are indicative of the parts being 'blacktopped' or repainted.

Your pictures shows you have all the newer ones which is better since they don't seem to act up in some systems if you power cycle twice quickly. Best I can tell only seems like old bally and WMS games are effected. Most people are probably not going to be trying to use a dip28 nvram in those systems anyways.

I see an FM1608M in there. Anyone know what that M suffix means as it does not seem to show up in the data sheet? It also has a different dye revision letter in front of the date code. Also have one FM1608B in there which are faster but shouldnt matter in any pinball application.

When I read the data off of these used pulls most indicate in readable text that they came out of a Ricoh Aficio copy machine NVRAM modules. Like this thing I found searching in google.

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I have a bunch of these chips I bought back in the day I just found (and lost again.... have to look for them) but they weren't cheap. At $2/pop wouldn't matter since it's cheap, although at this point I just use the surface mount nvram adapters that weebly and others sell.... not worth my time to roll my own adapters (although I did not know they were a direct replacement for wpc rams? 6264 replaced with a 1608?) - I'll have to convert my remaining WPC games over when I find the chips again.

I bought about 100 of these from AliExpress about 5 years ago... All of them have read Ricoh copiers when I hook them up to programmer.

I'd guess M is for Military grade. Usually can handle more extreme temps, etc.

FM16W08 surface mount based NVRAM modules have 100 trillion R/W endurance where the FM1608 dip28 only have 1 trillion endurance too. You can measure the /CE frequency and get a good idea how long they should last but on a used pull you do not know how much endurance is left in the chip. I am guessing the endurance figure is a conservative number and they would not get much of workout in those Ricoh NVRAM modules but you just don't know.

These are all brand new chips.... bought years ago.

Military parts would have MIL-M-38510 part marking - radically different from what is marked above (plus they would be ceramic). Non-military parts but still screened for military use would be marked with "883" at the end for MIL-STD-883 screened.

In this case, "M" is simply the die revision for 1608 parts. Revision "M" was a common die revision for these parts.
Normally, Ramtron does not put the die revision on the part marking.

datasheets say the letter before date code is the dye revision. The FM1608M says revsion A where the FM1608 all usually have revision M.

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Measured 31000 Hz in a bally game attract mode. Assuming worst case where every access is in the same row (which more than likely is not) FM1608 endurance would be about a year straight powered on 24/7. FM16W08 would be 100 years.

Bought from the same vendor and got mine today wrapped in cellophane. All 10 passed in my NeoLoch

I can use these in other projects too so I bought 50. They came in cellophane wrap too. Unfortunately about a dozen failed testing. On the bright side they were cheap enough that it was still worth it for the rest.

Has anybody got a good/trusted ebay source/link for cheap nvram 6264? i want to put one in my Sega Goldeneye and I believe it's just plug and play by popping out the old chip and putting the nvram 6264 in so looking for a cheap source of them. Thanks

Why does it have to be ebay and not just pinitech, weebly, anypin, etc.?

becase I was looking to get the cheap $1.50 - $2.00 chips

How many do you need? Best I can do is $10 each in small quantities.
(to clarify, my chips are not ferroRAM)

Grab some on Aliexpress, they are a little over a buck shipped.

(Link from few posts back)

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32596337719.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

Thanks, just placed an order.

Me too. Will see how they work out.

Darn, I just placed a second order this weekend, but still nothing on sale that I needed.

Just finished the dreaded TZ board upgrade. Honestly, the Hakko made it easy. Cheapo nvram installed and she’s up and running.

Man I love doing board work. That has to be one of the more intricate jobs, but it went smoothly. Cheap and fun for a Saturday night...

I purchased from same seller, took over a month to get the chips, but I'm pretty sure that was due to world events. Flip side, I had plenty of time to do the installs on my pins. Three Williams WPCs upgraded, and a 45 second swap on a Data East.

ebay.com link: 10PCS FM1608 120 PG DIP 28

eBay seller "shengming electronics" and then search for "FM1608-120-PG DIP-28".

I have successfully installed FM1608 DIP chips in my WPC games

I was messing around with my GQ-4x4 programmer to read/write those chips and tried to restore my previous highscores from before installing them (would be nice to somehow keep them)
Was not very successful so far. The only thing I managed was to change the name in the highscore list-even though I could only modify the name such that the checksum is not changed-otherwise the default names get restored from the EPROM
screenshot from the BSD code with the highscore names is atteched

I could not find the addresses where the highscore numbers are stored-no idea how to spot or change them-seems they are somehow encoded
Would also be interesting where the correct checksum has to be entered in?

Did anyone else successfully mess around and managed to restore their personal highscores via writing them to the NVRAM?
Any ideas/hints welcome-I do not have much knowledge on those kind of things but keen to mess around and lern...

the only related info I found was that but was not very helpful to me: https://github.com/mattvenn/ds2604-sram-driver

ram (resized).JPG

There are a few ways you can go about to help you find more info. The very first would be to use an emulator , get the sram file from there after it saved the settings. Make a single change in the settings, save and compare both files. You should see the change you made + whatever checksum was changed. Or keep the settings the same , beat the first high score , save and compare. Or maybe you could use the emulators debug fonctions to access the memory directly and change the current player's score to the value of your high score , end the game and it will ask you to enter your initials.. Then it will save the sram properly with checksum and all.. Or you could look at the emulator's source code files if open source (pretty sure most MAME related code is open source usually, I'm guessing Pinmame would be the same), and look at how the file is handled in the source code.

I think the simplest way is to highjack the score in the emulator via memory editing and draining the last ball.

He could probably take the dump of the NVRAM from his real machine and load that into PinMAME. Be interesting to hear if that works.

see highlighted in the hex.... the hstd's are stored as binary coded decimal. The checksums are usually right after each of the areas assuming wpc is like system 11.

hs (resized).png

This is a RAM... there's no checksum matching that needs to be done. The code may run corruption checks on certain sections of RAM on boot, but I highly doubt there is any checksumming going on.