I am still using the older ram only NeoLoch tester. I think it says v1.02 when it starts up.

It gives false failures on the first test of 6264 sometimes. 5114 nvrams the 2nd half of tests shows failed. 5101 rams always show address failure, but the tests are OK. 6116 nvrams always test fine.

Oh for 5114 the NVRAM tests seem very unreliable on the older LCD RAM Tester (pre-Inquisitor). David mentioned some voltage instability issue there.

The Inquisitor is *much quicker* compared to the LCD RAM Tester. I asked David if there was any way to speed up the tests.. just based on the LCD RAM Tester -- but seems that it's just a slower PIC being used so no ability to speed up testing. I sold all the Inquisitor Kits & assembled boards I had bought earlier this year... meant to keep one for myself, but usually how it goes. Now that I have an Inquisitor back in the line-up, the 6264 tests aren't *as painful*... much faster. He added a percentage indicator as it's doing the tests which is nice. Other than the blade being close to the ZIF socket, I do think the Inquisitor with SRAM blade offers a lot of advantages over the LCD RAM Tester. 5114 nvrams failed every time on the old tester, pass every time on the Inquisitor. I never had address failures on 5101 NVRAMs on the LCD tester though...may be a newer firmware for the older LCD tester that fixes that. Think mine is v1.03.

And actually, the GQ-4X is kind of pissing me off any more. I bought the GQ-4X V4 recently too, just to see if it'd behave better. I've got an "older" laptop, bought it probably in 2012. It needs to be opened up & cleaned out, fan kicks on *a ton* so I'm sure it's rather dusty. I get some false checksums on it once in a while -- more than I used to when it wasn't heating up so much. I have to unplug the GQ-4X a few times when it's having fits.. then I get valid checksums every time.

Kind of annoying having some of these testers being temperamental like that. I love squashing those kind of bugs to ensure consistent testing when possible. Will probably cave in and get a new laptop soon. Never used to give me as much of a fit, but it definitely heats up more now.. and must be screwing with the USB voltages as it heats up.

Maybe it's just a Windows 10 thing too. People just code really shitty any more since hardware just keeps improving leaps and bounds. Why write efficient code when the hardware can handle really crappy code?

To me this sounds like 25% of the chips fail 50% of the time. What am I missing?

My gq4x works fine with windows 10. I had to manually install a special driver if I remember right. Only thing is it gets out of sync when the laptop in the work shop goes into sleep mode. So I keep it unplugged until I am ready to use it.

I want to make socket adapters so I can read / write to all the nvrams with the gq4x.

On my to do list as well. May be worth collaborating on. I've got a hacked 24 pin zif socket for 6116 testing right now that doesn't sit well in the GQ-4X. I'd like to do a tester for 5114 too. I like being able to use the GQ-4X as a secondary test for memory adapters.. and then clearing them as the final step. Especially after seeing how the Neoloch can sometimes give those false positives, just helps me feel better doing several types of tests on them.

If you have an Eprom programmer that either reports using either the Ramtron part, or the Dallas equivalent, you can always run a test of them by programming and verifying 00, FF, CC, and 55. Write, then verify, then write the new pattern and verify again. These 4 patterns (all zeroes, all ones, and then alternate 1's and 0's) normally will catch most bad parts. It may not take into account the shortest access time but that won't really matter since the pinball CPUs are running so slow.

Always do 00 last and you will have the chip ready to go fully wiped of any data.

EDIT:. Sorry for the somewhat duplicate info. I guess I didn't open the last page of posts.

Thank you for this information, I have the GQ-4X, and was wondering how to test the ramtron chips with it, and you answered my question perfectly!

Thanks to this thread I finally updated two of my machines. I didn't have a Eprom programmer, so I didn't wipe the chips before install. Seems to work fine, no settings lost.

On my NGG, after removing the battery holder I did notice some damage I didn't see before. One trace seems to have exposed copper, and a little bit of green on the solder point. Anything to worry about, or just leave it alone?20170310_201811 (resized).jpg

As lyondsen stated it has spread to components below the battery holder. See the following for neutralization techniques. If left untreated it will continue to spread and damage traces.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-alkaline-battery-damage

I'm concerned about U27, You can see corrosion on the right leg of C61

A few Reviews, they are not too good

Hope your experience is a good one. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

GL

I was going to put NVRAM in the T3 I recently acquired, and noticed it had an odd chip instead of the usual RAM chip. It seems to be a bigger chip with integrated lithium battery. Is anyone familiar with this? Seems like a cool idea, are these still available?

It is a Dallas / Maxim SRAM with a battery monitor and lithium cell all in one potted package. DS1225 is the 8K x 8 one that would go into a game like T3. They are essentially the circuit Gottlieb system 3 used but all packed inside the dip28 part. I think they still make them, but probably more or as expensive as NVRAM, then they die after about 10-15 years.

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/digital/memory-products/DS1225AB.html

So does this have advantages over NVRAM? Will this keep the clock going, or is the clock not kept on this chip?

No advantage. Just disadvantage since you would need to replace it in 10 to 15 years from date of install.

The clock requires power to the WPC ASIC chip. So, no external battery, no clock.

In most cases they tend to last >20 years (if you install a fresh chip). Only advantages I can think of are compatibility and reliability. They work everywhere a standard SRAM would (because they literally contain a CMOS SRAM, along with the lithium battery and power mgmt chip). Simtek and Ramtron just don't work everywhere, due to power and/or timing issues.

I could swear there are unused pins for the 6116 on a sys11, all that needs to be done is install a new socket and change a jumper. I could be wrong but I will look later.

11B and 11C do have the extra holes. 11A does not.

Thanks for the good work and sharing, I just ordered 10 of the adapters. I only own 2 older system 11 games, but I can give away the others to friends (and keep a few spare ).

Even cheaper on Alliexpress

http://s.aliexpress.com/JRZb6JJ7

You folks realize that the black claw is designed to pull PLCC packages (like the WPC ASIC chip), not normal dip ICs.

It's almost to easy. Never bend a leg again.

IMG_3277 (resized).JPG

Wiha Chip-Lifter:

Chip-Lifter

https://www.wihatools.com/precision-chip-lifter

if you are pulling or installing chips I find this to be invaluable. http://www.jameco.com/z/ICS-01-R-IC-Pin-Straightener-Tool_99363.html

I think it's great to have these old chips reused: it's good to see things being recycled instead of using new resources all the time. I didn't get a faulty one yet, so I don't see a downside (maybe in the long term, but I socket them, so it's no problem if I ever have to replace it a bit earlier than a new one would have needed).

While I've only done 2 of them (both of my pins), my experience has been the same as lyonsden with 100% success. I highly recommend ditching the batteries in exchange for NVRAM chips.

Quick question here, what are the tips to desolder the RAM?
Have a desoldering gun, tried, but ended up damaging traces anyway

here's what I do but I am far from an expert:
1. Cut the legs off the chip
2. Heat pad with iron and remove pin
3. Remove solder with sucker

Like he said....cut the pins of old ic (Dremel cuts like butter),desolder pins, wick or desolder gun to clear solder....I've done all of mine...no issues.....Damn, year old resurrection posts lol

I prefer to use lead trimming pliers. If you slip with the dremel you can damage the board and traces.

Cutting the legs is what I do when I have no choice.
Was trying to save the Ram, but if it is the only way, I'll follow this route

I also cut with a small plier.

I look at it this way:
You can save the board
or
you can save the part

You get to choose

If you slip with anything you risk damage to board/trace, but unless you're ten beers deep, it hard to slip with a Dremel cutting legs. I've used my precise snips as well, but found sometimes they cause more harm than good.

The RAM chip is dirt cheap... no reason to try to save it. Always clip the legs. Use flush cutters at the body of the chip.

Knipex (resized).jpg

There's one fantastic reason to try and save it, and it's the best reason of all... If you can't remove an IC on a board you're working on in one useable piece, you shouldn't be doing board work.

By far the number one thing I get in to fix these days is botched NVRAM install attempts. My piece of advice is if you don't have 100% confidence in the work you're about to perform, let someone with the experience do it.

Now if you're absolutely the do it yourself kind of guy, then yes, destroying the IC is definitely better than destroying the board.

A Dremel is a horrible idea though. I've got some great photos of boards sent in to prove this fact. Not only does it go through IC legs like butter, it goes through board traces like butter too.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

True. I all boils down to what you're comfortable with and what works good for you. I just prefer the lead cutters since that does work better for me. I had used the dremel in the past on a surface mount board and did slip. Luckily it was on a non pinball prototype board and I was able to fix it. That is when I knew that method wasn't for me...

To be honest, I used the Dremel method three times I believe...gave me zero issues, and yes, butter... I have used the close cut precision cutters for the rest, bought one of the most recommend brands...dulled out fast ..have a few dull pairs now. One instance during a cut it twisted the leg and ripped out the pad...sucked....so Dremel it was. If it works, go for it, it's not my profession, if I F it up it's on me.

Just a FYI. Finally ran out of my old stock of nvram. Bought from same ebay seller (after a couple years) and this time all were bad. Did get a refund but still sucks. If anyone else got from them and they worked let me know.
ebay.com link: 10pcs FM1608 120 PG FM1608 120 P FM1608 64Kbit FRAM NVRAM DIP28