(Topic ID: 225198)

Nudging to avoid the outlane


By Nokoro

8 months ago



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  • 41 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Nokoro
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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    #1 8 months ago

    I know there have been numerous topics about nudging, and I understand the basics of doing it (e.g., nudge to move the playfield, not the ball). However, what I still can't quite do is nudge to avoid the outlane. I try to nudge up to bounce the ball off of the outlane post, but this seems to have an equal chance of success as failure. And, when I watch videos of the best players, this seems to be something they can do quite well. So, what are the specific nudging techniques used to keep the ball from going down the outlane?

    #2 8 months ago

    What game? different outlanes will require different nudges

    #3 8 months ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    I try to nudge up to bounce the ball off of the outlane post, but this seems to have an equal chance of success as failure.

    I have similar results, but I am not all that great a player. Most of the time, if the ball is already in the vicinity of the outlane nudges are less effective....I try to use nudging to keep the ball out of that area to begin with, such as vertical nudges when the ball is hitting the slings. On some games you can see when that side to side sling action is about to push the ball into the outlane drain, and push to send the ball up to hit some other benign area away from there. On RFM, I'll try to nudge that not only to keep it away from the outlanes, but to use that sling action to send the ball up to hit the martian targets on the sides.

    #4 8 months ago

    I’m no expert either (watch some of the Keith Elwin or Bowen videos) but I find on a lot of games that I have to nudge in the OPPOSITE direction that is my instinct. Somebody posted a few weeks ago to think of it like you’re moving the game underneath the ball and the ball stays in the same place. That’s helped me a lot

    #5 8 months ago

    When I nudge, my objective is to get it out of that area completely. I'm not trying to get the ball into the inlane, but out of the inlane / outlane all together.

    #6 8 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    What game? different outlanes will require different nudges

    All games. I’m not that great at any. If there are different techniques, how do you identify them?

    I agree with some of the comments, I try to nudge up to get the ball out of the slings and would prefer that the ball stay away from the lanes altogether. But when it is heading for an outlane, what do you do? I’ve been trying to nudge the post up into the ball, but as I said, that only works sporadically. Would it be better to nudge the post to the left or right before the ball gets there to try to bounce the ball off the outer side of it? That may depend upon the game I would imagine.

    #7 8 months ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    All games. I’m not that great at any. If there are different techniques, how do you identify them?
    I agree with some of the comments, I try to nudge up to get the ball out of the slings and would prefer that the ball stay away from the lanes altogether. But when it is heading for an outlane, what do you do? I’ve been trying to nudge the post up into the ball, but as I said, that only works sporadically. Would it be better to nudge the post to the left or right before the ball gets there to try to bounce the ball off the outer side of it? That may depend upon the game I would imagine.

    Yes just make the ball hit the post instead of going down I’m being serious, it’s easy to overthink it. One thing that I am still learning to avoid is when the ball DOES hit the post then spins out into the outline anyway

    #8 8 months ago

    I find that what greatly improved my technique and decreased my drains was trying to get the ball to avoid the outlanes and inlanes completely. That means nudging ABOVE those areas. For me, it is nudging at the top of the slings or on the sides/targets of games. I think in one of Bowen's tutorials he talked about controlling the game from the upper 2/3 of the game. Hard to control the ball on the lower 3rd. So, get to know how the ball returns from orbits, ramps and targets. Nudge at those locations. Tops of slings, man...nudging at that location alone greatly improved my game. Once it starts going to the inlane/outlane wires/posts...it is hard to change that direction. But nudging upward (pushing directly forward on the corners) will give you your best chance...in my opinion/experience, of course. I am novice player.

    #9 8 months ago

    Oh, one more thing. If you REALLY want to learn how to nudge, go put some serious time on an EM, especially a Gottlieb with the small flippers. If you want any hope of keeping the ball in play, you have to get your nudging skills down in a hurry!

    #10 8 months ago

    I see the good players seen this:

    Ball heads toward a out lane:
    Open hand, quick palm punch to the corner of the lock bar, one hand, on the side the ball is draining. Not super hard, but very sharp.

    Alternative is a open palm slap to the side of the cabinet, on the side armor and cabinet just below (near flipper button). Again, not super hard, but sharp. Depends on the angle the ball approaches the outlane.

    Timing is everything! You have to move the post JUST BEFORE the instant the ball hits it.

    The reasoning is that the ball is going toward the drain and you need to time your slap or punch to move the post as the ball hits it. This puts MORE energy into the ball, but can change its angle and speed, hopefully popping it out and away from the drain, or at least to get it off its trajectory.

    Rarely, on games with insensitive tilts, you can try a shaking motion, and hope the balls 'wanders out' of the top of the outlane. Rarely works because the balls has already slowed and lost energy.

    Have fun experimenting. If your hand hurts, you are not doing it right.

    Don C.

    #11 8 months ago

    I tend to nudge the wrong way and make it worse.

    #12 8 months ago

    Some good info here. I'll just add one additional point.

    Knowing when to nudge is the most important part. I see people nudging everything which can actually have a negative effect. You really need to project where the ball is going, what it will hit and what effect that will have. If that effect is a ball going towards the middle (SDTM) or the outlanes then you nudge. If that effect will move it to a flipper then you don't nudge. This is talk about the upper 2/3 of the PF.

    Down by the outlanes, you are better off nudging upwards verses side to side. Your goal should be to get the ball up and out of that area and not to go into the inlane. If you can't nudge to get it up and over then as a last resort you nudge to get the opening of the inlane to where the ball will go. This is often times the opposite that your instinct will drive.

    #13 8 months ago

    Que the nudging videos! Lets see some nice ones guys.

    #14 8 months ago
    Quoted from Crile1:

    I think in one of Bowen's tutorials he talked about controlling the game from the upper 2/3 of the game.

    Do you happen to know what video that is? I would like to check it out.

    #15 8 months ago

    When the ball is going to an outlane area, nudge the machine UP as the ball hits something to clear it from the area entirely and back to the flipper area and that way no risk of an outlane drain.

    #16 8 months ago

    Check out Tim’s save around 21:19

    I want to know how to do that!

    #17 8 months ago

    Practice, Practice, Practice - You need to do a LOT of nudging to get the hang of timing, and what works.
    --- From your comments, I believe this is the most important aspect for you.

    As far as outlanes, think of it like you are decreasing the size of the vertical space the ball can escape (when you nudge up).
    Only nudge up if the top of the sling or post is close enough to touch the ball (with the nudge). If the ball is on the high side of the open space, do a slap save or side to side nudging instead. Also, you need to have enough practice to identify where the ball will be a split second ahead of time -> most people need to practice EARLY nudging, because most novices are late most of the time.

    #18 8 months ago
    Quoted from pickleric:

    Check out Tim’s save around 21:19

    I want to know how to do that!

    I did that one glorious time in my pinball life. It was total luck of course. I shouted in celebration, but no one was there to see it or care.

    #19 8 months ago

    pindude80 I wish I could remember which PAPA vid it was...he's done so many. If I find it, I'll PM you.

    #20 8 months ago
    Quoted from Crile1:

    pindude80 I wish I could remember which PAPA vid it was...he's done so many. If I find it, I'll PM you.

    What makes this so damn impressive is that it's a PAPA game. You think about shaking them and you'll end up with a double danger.

    #21 8 months ago
    Quoted from T7:

    <snip>Also, you need to have enough practice to identify where the ball will be a split second ahead of time -&gt; most people need to practice EARLY nudging, because most novices are late most of the time.

    +1

    #22 8 months ago

    I can't nudge very good

    #23 8 months ago

    Just do this:

    https://clips.twitch.tv/PeppySpookyLapwingArgieB8

    Haha. But seriously. Your goal is to not even let the ball get to the outlane area. Think about what the balk normally does right before heading to the outlane. Change that part of the game, not what you’re doing at the outlane area.

    Also I second that you want the ball to come up and out of that area, not land in the inlane.

    #24 8 months ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    What makes this so damn impressive is that it's a PAPA game. You think about shaking them and you'll end up with a double danger.

    You mean like the AFMR at league. I swear I sneezed beside it and it tilted.

    #25 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    You mean like the AFMR at league. I swear I sneezed beside it and it tilted.

    Tight tilts on Bally Williams games are absolutely brutal.

    #26 8 months ago
    Quoted from pickleric:

    Check out Tim’s save around 21:19

    I want to know how to do that!

    My pinbro can do that consistently on the right outlane on Iron Maiden. It's fairly tight with rubbers on both sides... I'm not saying it's easy, rather, it definitely depends on the game.

    #27 8 months ago

    So, all the great advice on here inspired me to nudge more tonight, and . . . I tilted. But, hey, if you're not tilting, I guess you're not trying.

    I find it very difficult to predict when the ball is in danger of heading to the lanes to nudge properly. I'm more trying to react once it gets there than trying to keep it from the lanes in the first place.

    -2
    #28 8 months ago

    Was/is nudging a designed aspect of play by the creators of EM and SS? I never have as I always viewed it as "cheating" and not nice for the machine or the operator...

    #29 8 months ago

    WTF??????IS anyone else seeing me quote myself on post #24 and #25.
    I didn't post #25 but it shows my avatar and info like I quoted myself????

    pin (resized).PNG
    #30 8 months ago
    Quoted from bobwiley:

    Was/is nudging a designed aspect of play by the creators of EM and SS? I never have as I always viewed it as "cheating" and not nice for the machine or the operator...

    This couldn’t be further from the truth. Nudging is a part of pinball. It was the main skill of pinball before flippers were introduced.

    The game will tell you when you’ve nudged too much via the tilt. Until then, fair game.

    #31 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    WTF??????IS anyone else seeing me quote myself on post #24 and #25.
    I didn't post #25 but it shows my avatar and info like I quoted myself????
    [quoted image]

    No. I don’t see that. I’m looking at this thread through safari on my iPad.

    #32 8 months ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    No. I don’t see that. I’m looking at this thread through safari on my iPad.

    It's fixed now. Shows chuckwurt made post #25.

    #33 8 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    This couldn’t be further from the truth. Nudging is a part of pinball. It was the main skill of pinball before flippers were introduced.
    The game will tell you when you’ve nudged too much via the tilt. Until then, fair game.

    EXACATOMUNDO!!!
    That’s the whole purpose of the tilt. Nudging is part of the game...the trick is to know how much you can nudge before you tilt. The risk is if you tilt you lose your ball in play and your bonus so it’s risk VS reward. Now VIOLENTLY shaking, shoving, etc would be abuse so there is a difference.

    It’s definitely a learned skill. My issue is still learning how to nudge to get the ball out of the slings...it sucks watching the ball go left, right, left, right and straight to the outlane....happens to me far too much.

    #34 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    WTF??????IS anyone else seeing me quote myself on post #24 and #25.

    This is a recurring issue since the last upgrade. Refreshing usually take care of it.

    #35 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    You mean like the AFMR at league. I swear I sneezed beside it and it tilted.

    Exactly. Now imagine if both outlane posts were either removed or didn't have rubber. Then change the pitch of the game and drop the flipper pitch so they are flatter making the ball harder to cradle. And if that wasn't enough, change the software settings so it's more difficult to get locks. Once you do all that, you'll be close to a PAPA game.

    #36 8 months ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    Exactly. Now imagine if both outlane posts were either removed or didn't have rubber. Then change the pitch of the game and drop the flipper pitch so they are flatter making the ball harder to cradle. And if that wasn't enough, change the software settings so it's more difficult to get locks. Once you do all that, you'll be close to a PAPA game.

    To be fair, they have really backed off on the crazy tight tilts which is much appreciated.

    #37 8 months ago

    Perhaps this is going to be hard to do, but let's take this diagram and assume the different colored arrows are different ball trajectories. How would you nudge to save each one?

    PinballNudging (resized).png

    I'm assuming you've failed to keep the ball from heading to the lanes, and you have to make a quick nudge. Would you nudge up, to the side, etc.? Does it vary depending on the trajectory?

    #38 8 months ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Perhaps this is going to be hard to do, but let's take this diagram and assume the different colored arrows are different ball trajectories. How would you nudge to save each one?
    [quoted image]
    I'm assuming you've failed to keep the ball from heading to the lanes, and you have to make a quick nudge. Would you nudge up, to the side, etc.? Does it vary depending on the trajectory?

    Nudge up every time and hope for the best. It is MUCH more important to worry about what happened before that caused these trajectories.

    Btw. The pink one is most likely wicked shimmy time.

    #39 8 months ago

    Up and to the left on all 3 of those.

    Up to get the ball up and out of the area using the rubber on the inlane and left to either get more rubber on the ball or to help move the ball into the inlane.

    #40 8 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    It's fixed now. Shows chuckwurt made post #25

    I have seen this on my phone before. If I reload the page it shows correctly.

    #41 8 months ago
    Quoted from 85vett:

    Up and to the left on all 3 of those.
    Up to get the ball up and out of the area using the rubber on the inlane and left to either get more rubber on the ball or to help move the ball into the inlane.

    Nudging up would have been intuitive to me. Nudging to the left probably wouldn’t have been, but it makes sense.

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