We'd need a real back to the future moving game to get this game.

You don't know that, Jack may have been a little optimistic but building a game and a factory from an idea is a big undertaking but he seems to have pulled it off.
Games will happen faster once all the pieces are in place and bugs worked out.
I got out of contracting because of the headaches with subs, missed deadlines etc. this is something that is out of your control people can and will drop the ball and you catch the shit when they do.
I have to give Jack kudos for even attempting this, not a lot of people willing to put their ass on the line for this kind of undertaking.

It cannot happen before December 17, 2014 - contractual obligation I think.

Hobbit_delay.JPG

I though I heard from JJP that they were able to release the pin earlier and then update the software etc. after the 3rd movie is released. Think about it, the trailer material could still be used in the pin if it is released earlier than the third movie.

I also believe like an earlier post that much of the time to get to this point with WOZ was spent on issues that are one-time startup issues that new companies face. If you have ever started a new company, then you would understand.

I will take the under on the 2015 date.

I don't know if this is the case because they could just add the third movie clips etc via update. Although this may be an issue with what you may want to put on the playfield art... not sure.

My guess is that the company will long be bankrupt and the subject of a huge class action lawsuit by then.

His a$$, your money - So very brave... Anyone heard of Bank financing, a Public offering, or Venture capital?

So why aren't there many people willing to start a new pinball company if its so profitable or easy ?

Per Jack's 'Friday Update!' email (April 19th):

"Our Team has started The Hobbit LE and the game is on track for 2014."

Try finding a clue or borrowing one from a friend before attempting to engage in big boy topics... The obvious point is that he has more than his a$$ on the line. Try to keep up...

Nothing "per jack" via "updates" is credible information (based on historical data).

It's preorder propaganda

The last Hobbit movie is in Dec. 2014, so that is the earliest a pinball machine would be released. I suspect mid 2015 is more realistic.

And neither are your useless WOZ posts. Give it a rest.

I'm well aware that he's got my money

You're right, I need to relax on this topic, hell we all do.

You do realize that everyone knows how it ends. (Bilbo dies, sorry for the spoiler ) Don't see how they would have to wait for the third movie to release this.

I have some real concerns about JJP's long term viability as a company. I think everyone who put up money for WOZ is safe, they will get what they paid and waited for.

The above in mind, unless JJP has outside capital beyond their sales of WOZ that they can tap (be it debt or through an equity raise) I just don't see how JJP is going to self fund all the way to December of 2014 (a realistic release date for the Hobbit in my view) off of WOZ sales.

The 1,000 or so people most interested in WOZ have already ordered it and paid for it. JJP won't have new money coming in till those people all get those games and then he will be competing against his own machines via the used market (I think we can all agree that at least 20% of the LE's will be re-sold as HUO machines).

Jack will need to tap the Operator market to survive? Will operators plunk down 7G's for a machine that will need maintenance or just buy another child gaming . . . I mean redemption machine? Jack needs WOZ sales (and Hobbit pre-sales) to float his company for at least 20 months. He has employees, over head, he may have already borrowed money and have debt to service. It could that Jack has plenty of cash to put into his company and it will survive . . . I could just as easily see the company collapse after WOZ.

Regardless, I sure hope JJP survives and flourishes. Stern needs some serious competition, we as collectors and players need another viable option. JJP flopping will discourage others from coming in and competing with Stern.

With code updates they could add in scenes to the LCD display from the third movie "if" they beat the release date for the third movie. I think the game will be released simultaneously with the third movie IF JJP survives financially, which I think is a legitimate question mark. See my post above.

JJP must wait because they need the video content from the last movie to put into the pinball machine, and the movie company is not going to let JJP share that content until they have released the movie.

I guess in your mind Bilbo died.

If JJP doesn't survive, it's hard to imagine someone else coming in and surviving. I feel 100% confident that JJP with not only survive but flourish. He'll eventually get to 2 per year if not 3.

I really hope JJP doesn't start putting out silly rumors on when The Hobbit will be released just to get the needed capital to fund the project. After what happened with WOZ I can't beleive they would go that route again. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me Please JJP find a way to make this happen without taking pinheads full deposits for a year or two that is just not right.

Finishing the game by December 2014 should be totally doable, especially with the board issues apparently figured out and now like 3-4 programmers and a working base system.

IMO based on everything that's happened I don't think the hobbit will ever see the light of day. I could be wrong but that's the way it looks to me.

And what has happened that would make you believe that? I'm curious as to your line of thinking however wrong it may be.

This would be a bad move in a business sense. Great for pinball but JJP will want to ride the publicity wagon generated by the producers of the film. That's the whole reason they are making a Hobbit pin and not something else??

I would think that they CAN do it... the big challenge for JJP at this point is he needs to SELL games (Woz in particular). You don't build a factory just to fulfill 1000 woz pre-orders.... woz needs to sell multiple thousands before Hobbit takes over the line.

The scary thing is, no one seems to be talking woz (as in a potential buyer), the original buyers are waiting for theirs to be delivered, but I can't recall hearing much talk from people on the fence waiting to put in orders.

It's almost like getting woz out the door is just for setting up confidence for future hobbit buyers.

Some people just want to post something negative about JJP whenever they can. Obviously, you'll get no logical or reasonable response.

I'm on the board for a new startup and have a new found appreciation for what it takes to start up a company.

I will believe them (JJP) once they make true statements and stick to them. At this point they are going to have to prove honesty to me before trust can build again. (if it does)

I am still on board for ECWOZLE #814 until that makes it home I could care less about the "next" machine they are making until I see machine #1.

This is a crazy hobby and some people race to get rid of money.

Believe it or not, there still a FEW people out here that don't buy pinball machines until they've actually PLAYED one.

This is obviously NOT the most stylish of strategies, and probably seen as being a bit passe` among the pinball aristocracy .

Case in point, I was interested in ACDC, but refused to buy into the hype until found one in the wild I could go pump some quarters into. I'm not buying machines for art or collectibilty, I'm buying them to PLAY- so this was important to me. This also precludes me from being on the front lines of the LE-model presale buyers.... Such is life.

I AM very interested in PLAYING a (finished) WoZ. Im lukewarm on the theme, but VERY excited about all the other possibilities this new machine MIGHT have. There may be others like me that will BUY after they TRY. So, there might be a whole new wave of buyers coming post-release. BUT, this will be based on how the games plays...

Is this something new for the movies? In the books Bilbo doesn't die, at the end of Return of the King he is allowed to travel to Valinor since he was a ring-bearer.

If you examine everything that's happened with Woz, the need for paying for the hobbit before Woz production had really started and you *really* know jack it's not too hard to come that that conclusion. Of course it's all my opinion and I could be wrong but ill bet you 50 bucks there isn't a production run of the hobbit. I do put my money where my mouth is

Logic defies fanboys

Man, at the very best it seems like we are talking 20 months between the release of game one and game two . . . how will one game keep that company afloat for 20 months. Did JJP raise some outside capital? If not, they may need to.

I sure hope they get to 2 or 3 games per year quickly. One game released in between 5 Stern releases will not bode well for JJP longterm.

I'm not in on WOZ due to theme, but I'm surprised people are going the deposit rout again for the Hobbit after all the delays. I'm pulling for JJP and I will almost assuredly buy the Hobbit if it ever gets made . . . but I wouldn't pay for it right now.

I agree they will need to speed release, but do you really think they need to get to 3 games/yr?

They aren't trying to BE stern, so I'd think 1-2/yr would be PLENTY if they are high quality games.

Logic also defies Trolls!!

My guess is that your guess is wrong.

The game can't be released untill after the third (Hobbit) movie which comes out in Dember 2014. so there fore it will be on or after the release date in December 2014 fellas!
Pincades
Chicagoland JJP Dist.
JT

You should try reading the book or even watch LotR... but I'll take it as you were joking.

That was the best post of this thread! It was made with such authority, and is so obviously wrong, I love it!

Everybody knows how it ends... Gandalf and Smaug elope!

The biggest threat to JJP IMO is Hobbit fatigue... I did not think the first movie was all that great after a single viewing.

The biggest flaw compared to Fellowship of the Ring? The dwarves were not really characters. Having a floppy hat or being rotund does not magically make you a character that I should care about. Multiply that by ~13, and you have so much extra baggage wandering around that I was honestly hoping they would lose most of them so they could actually bother to develop a few of them.

Compared to Fellowship of the ring where the core characters are quickly fleshed out and different... and you actually care about who's who. Even Bilbo comes across as being a bit of a jerk at times in the film, and I assume he's supposed to be the hero

So yes it was pretty and yes it had throwbacks to the LoTR movies that fans like me loved... but it was a bit of a fail in terms of keeping me interested, I can't imagine what someone who had never seen LoTR would think (maybe they would like it more, who knows... maybe character development is for suckers ).

Where was I going with this? If the next few movies follow down this path, you could easily get Star Wars Prequel Syndrome, where the first movie is a big deal, but by the time Episode III rolled around general interest had waned and you are left with mostly hardcore fans. So the broad appeal of this theme might not be as broad as you would think based upon the success of LoTR.

Still two movies to go, but if somehow the next movie is worse (like Attack of the Clones, IMO) all bets are off in terms of Hobbit preorders

Also lacking hot women.... surely a prerequisite for all geek endeavors

btw- I LOVED LOTR, but was also lukewarm with the Hobbit.... making it into 3 movies doesnt make me more excited either...

Nonetheless, I AM looking forward to the other movies, because, lets be honest, a mediocre Tolkien/Jackson flick is still better than 90% of the dredge out there...

I was thinking that too... the big romance of the Hobbit is apparently Gandalf and Galadriel

Not quite as compelling as Liv and Viggo.

I agree with you on the movie ... it did nothing for me. That said, I thought Star Trek: The Next Generation was boring, but I LOVE the pin.

Actually, I think owning a LOTR pin might make the movie less interesting to watch again. I have no threat from the Hobbit; I do not want to watch the first movie again. That actually made the Hobbit pin a more interesting purchase if that makes any sense.

The deposit thing is a payment plan. Many, many like this to budget and not only lock in and chisel a little bit here and there but it leaves extra money to buy other pins while you wait.

Maybe, but since when does a good movie apply at all to a pinball machine? The Shadow knows...

YES!!! This was my biggest complaint. Basically the only way to differentiate between the characters was by the color of their beards. A big drop off from the well rounded characters in LOTR for sure.

The villain in "The Hobbit" was lame too, but that's a whole other conversation.

Thanks for proving my point.

Almost NEVER...

JD
JM
Xfiles
Sopranos

However, theme tends to drive LE presales... and, especially with JJP where they want orders YEARS ahead of gameplay videos, theme matters.

Wait a minute...are you saying JD and JM suck or X-Files and Sopranos don't suck?

Or is it X-Files and Sopranos were good shows but the pins sucked and JD and JM were horrible movies but great pins?

For what it's worth, I think Sopranos is pretty decent...the pin that is.