(Topic ID: 95725)

Now I get why people hate EM's/Card Whiz Price Check


By TheDarkKnight68

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 44 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by CactusJack
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

FLAT HEAD SCREWS!! Damn bastages. Hate them unless I can get TDC on them- part they suck and part I (suck)have been spoiled by years of Phillips and sockets... Anyway, I'm still trying to get time to post some pics of my Jumping Jack project AND work on it, I'll get some up. Have long thought I would love a EM card game pinball, and may have an opportunity to trade for a Card Whiz. Im sure it's in average to above players shape, so for estimates sake, what would you value it at in a trade? It will be a cash plus pin for my pin, which makes it an even cooler way to get a card game. I'm not terribly picky- I haven't met a pin I couldn't enjoy (haven't played Shaq, but I have Xfiles and love it), but is this a cool card pin? Seems it rates pretty well, any thoughts? Thanks a ton for any price or gameplay thoughts.

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#2 5 years ago

The screws are the easiest part to overcome when you like em's!!!!

Card Whiz is the aab version of Royal Flush and although I'm a replay guy (like your Jumping Jack) many here like aab's. I've heard it's a good game.

You say average to above average in condition so I would say it's worth maybe $600 - $800 in shopped condition and playing - more if it's leaning toward excellent condition.

Jacks Open is a wedgehead with a card-playing theme from that era I like with the same drop target bank as the Card Whiz - except it's mounted horizontal in the middle of the playfield.- it is a replay game though. Rule sets are different between aab's and replays. JO is harder to find than Card Whiz though.

Good luck

#3 5 years ago

don't get me started on slotted screws... i replace every one of them i can with a phillips (or hex in some places) one, originality be damned... slotted screws are the one thing i can truly say i don't like about gottlieb machines...

i'd agree with what hoov said... except i believe that card whiz is a replay game as well, it is the 2 player version of royal flush (i could be wrong there, it would not be the first time, nor will it be the last)... the comparison to jacks open is apt, although i prefer jacks open (i'm a single player machine type of guy)... good fun game, and one of the few multi-players i wouldn't mind having...

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

don't get me started on slotted screws... i replace every one of them i can with a phillips (or hex in some places) one, originality be damned... slotted screws are the one thing i can truly say i don't like about gottlieb machines...
i'd agree with what hoov said... except i believe that card whiz is a replay game as well, it is the 2 player version of royal flush (i could be wrong there, it would not be the first time, nor will it be the last)... the comparison to jacks open is apt, although i prefer jacks open (i'm a single player machine type of guy)... good fun game, and one of the few multi-players i wouldn't mind having...

Whoops, I stand corrected. What ccotenj said. It is the 2-player version of Royal Flush - my bad.

#5 5 years ago

Seriously? You don't like EM's because you can't deal with slothead screws?!
Well. OK. More for the rest of us......

I've got a Royal Flush in my collection (same gameplay as yours) and its not
a great player admittedly. Value? Whatever someone in your area is willing
to pay. Around here $400-$800 depending on condition.
Steve

-1
#6 5 years ago

Maybe we should add a poll, People hate EM's?

#7 5 years ago

We in our 50's (and older) grew up with slotted screws. That's all we had then.

They built Disneyland in California without a single power tool! Plus, it only took nine months from inception. Try to do that today.......

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from TheDarkKnight68:

FLAT HEAD SCREWS!! Damn bastages. Hate them unless I can get TDC on them- part they suck and part I (suck)have been spoiled by years of Phillips and sockets

You just need the right screwdrivers.

Always use a quality parallel bladed screwdriver for removing slotted screws, never anything with even the slightest taper to it.

For my Gottlieb EM games I religiously use the two following screwdrivers and have a few spares of each.

This one has the 1/4" wide tip:
amazon.com link »

This one has the 3/16" wide tip and comes with a quality #2 phillips head as well. I can get these off the shelf at my local True Value Nutz & Boltz hardware store for about $13.
http://www.rakuten.com/prod/gardner-bender-insulated-screwdriver-set-2-pc/222806596.html?listingId=147093369&scid=pla_google_HomeandOutdoor&adid=29963&gclid=CP6I9fbmnL8CFa9r7AodPSoA-Q

I use the 1/4" tip on most of the screws on a Gottlieb EM game except that I find the 3/16" tip works best on the smaller screws holding the flipper coil brackets and the pop bumper coil brackets.

I rarely strip any screw with these quality tools. In time they may wear out depending on how much use you give them. They are also magnetic tipped which is a huge plus.

Mike O.

#9 5 years ago

Wow you are a game individual to run with this post subject in this Forum. But to me with all of the problems the world faces slotted head screw heads are, at best, a minor distraction.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from wayner:

Wow you are a game individual to run with this post subject in this Forum.

Thought the same thing.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from wayner:

Wow you are a game individual to run with this post subject in this Forum. But to me with all of the problems the world faces slotted head screw heads are, at best, a minor distraction.

Lol, I certainly hope you guys realize I was being facetious- I love all the pins, EM's included- but I do despise flat head screws. I'll just need to get a good set of flat head screwdrivers as mentioned, as I am also spoiled by all my magnetic nut drivers and Phillips. Always gotten by with cheap flat heads and spent $$ on the other stuff. LOL, if I really did hate EM's, you are all correct- NO WAY I would post that, Id keep it to myself for sure, as putting that out there for real would accomplish nothing!. Haha, sorry for any confusion. I'm think I may be getting my second EM in a two week period, so hopefully that helps show my true colors. Love ya guys.

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#12 5 years ago

We were kidding too!!

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

We were kidding too!!

LOL, got me...

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from hoov:

Whoops, I stand corrected. What ccotenj said. It is the 2-player version of Royal Flush - my bad.

Did someone spike your OJ this morning?

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from TheDarkKnight68:

Lol, I certainly hope you guys realize I was being facetious- I love all the pins, EM's included- but I do despise flat head screws. I'll just need to get a good set of flat head screwdrivers as mentioned, as I am also spoiled by all my magnetic nut drivers and Phillips. Always gotten by with cheap flat heads and spent $$ on the other stuff. LOL, if I really did hate EM's, you are all correct- NO WAY I would post that, Id keep it to myself for sure, as putting that out there for real would accomplish nothing!. Haha, sorry for any confusion. I'm think I may be getting my second EM in a two week period, so hopefully that helps show my true colors. Love ya guys.

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Well said Dark Knight and like the Batgirl!!

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from TheDarkKnight68:

Lol, I certainly hope you guys realize I was being facetious- I love all the pins, EM's included-

The Joker thinks that having a SERIOUS discussion about EM's is a good thing, so lets talk.........

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#17 5 years ago

Party On!

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#18 5 years ago

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Looks like The Joker is saying....

"So wtf, Batty, were the flat heads just cheaper then the Phillips, or are you just an a-hole?"

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Did someone spike your OJ this morning?

Dead brain cells. I hadn't had my 8 am shock treatment yet.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from hoov:

Dead brain cells. I hadn't had my 8 am shock treatment yet.

Because you were scheduled at 7. We'll double your seizure time next treatment.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from hoov:

Card Whiz is the aab version

Add - A - Beer version.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

don't get me started on slotted screws...

Not again!

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Add - A - Beer version.

Pass me an Add - A - Beer please

#24 5 years ago

Ok
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#25 5 years ago

Ah crud, ^^ this got me really excited that there was some funny ass slotted screw thread somewhere. Searched and no luck... I've been re-visiting (most for the first, hilarious time) a lot of the classic threads people have been re-posting lately. Comedy gold. Come home pinballwizardx or whatever that kids name was....

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#26 5 years ago
Quoted from TheDarkKnight68:

Ah crud, ^^ this got me really excited that there was some funny ass slotted screw thread somewhere. Searched and no luck

Here is one.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/roundpanhex-head-machine-screws

#28 5 years ago

i've been good, i haven't ranted about those foolish things in awhile...

ah yes... the thread in which i discovered that people are really passionate about screws...

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Ok

1502506_638788799517788_37255496... 134 KB

now THAT is a proper topper for a pin!

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from hoov:

Pass me an Add - A - Beer please

this may completely change my opinion about aab machines...

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from TheDarkKnight68:

FLAT HEAD SCREWS!! Damn bastages.

Doesn't bother me as much as switching tools repeatedly for many different types of screw heads.

#32 5 years ago

Nice. ccotenj - still have that can of slotted screws? See how many you can get in a flat rate box and ship them to me!

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Ok

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What? No Yuengling?!!!

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

What? No Yuengling?!!!

Of course, thats at home.
My dog loves it too.

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#35 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Of course, thats at home.
My dog loves it too.

Good Dog!

#36 5 years ago

Yeah, just don't teach him how to open the can or your supply may dwindle!

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Of course, thats at home.
My dog loves it too.

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i LOVE the look in his (her?) eyes... the eyes are saying "yea! beer!!"...

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

i LOVE the look in his (her?) eyes... the eyes are saying "yea! beer!!"...

A Male,^^ funny of all the female dogs i have had none would drink Beer,but my prior male liked it too.
Hmmm me thinks its a guy thing.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Yeah, just don't teach him how to open the can or your supply may dwindle!

True ^^
Like the old Strohs commercial...

#40 5 years ago

Is that considered an Add-a-Beer?

#41 5 years ago

Best screw design, ever, by far, the Robertson.

#42 5 years ago

I wanted to wait to comment on this thread until I really spent some time with a Gottlieb EM. I spent most of this afternoon disassembling and cleaning Gottlieb Decagon units for the first time. They are more time consuming than a Williams but I was able to pick up speed the more I did. To help with the annoying flat head screws I bought three new tools. Two Klein screwdrivers (3/16 and 1/4) and a magnetizer. I got these at Home Depot. I have several Craftsman screwdrivers and I found their tips to be less squared off and not as "fat". This led to more slipping for me. All the tips I had for my ratcheting screwdriver had the same issue. The magnetized (yes, the magnetizing did work) Kleins made the job a lot easier.

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#43 5 years ago
Quoted from dtown:

I wanted to wait to comment on this thread until I really spent some time with a Gottlieb EM. I spent most of this afternoon disassembling and cleaning Gottlieb Decagon units for the first time. They are more time consuming than a Williams but I was able to pick up speed the more I did. To help with the annoying flat head screws I bought three new tools. Two Klein screwdrivers (3/16 and 1/4) and a magnetizer. I got these at Home Depot. I have several Craftsman screwdrivers and I found their tips to be less squared off and not as "fat". This led to more slipping for me. All the tips I had for my ratcheting screwdriver had the same issue. The magnetized (yes, the magnetizing did work) Kleins made the job a lot easier.

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They still suck. Spawn of the devil.

I might also say that about decagons, but I'd have to duck quickly. So I'll be nice and say they simply were an overly complicated design that is inferior to other score reels of the period.

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

They still suck. Spawn of the devil.
I might also say that about decagons, but I'd have to duck quickly. So I'll be nice and say they simply were an overly complicated design that is inferior to other score reels of the period.

That's an interesting observation. The last few days, I have been working on resurecting a Jacks Open with an orphan head I aquired over 20 years ago. Not only were the Ball Count and Replay units totally frozen (typical pivot and ratchet follower freeze) but one score reel didn't want to end the reset sequence. But all 4 still stepped and advanced to 0 and functioned fine in play. But in my hand, it also didn't want to pass from 9 to 0 without some help so I tore it down for a rebuild.

As I looked it over, I marveled at how ingenious the Engineers at Gottlieb were when they redesigned the decagon unit noticing how the plastic slide moved out to stop the inside triangles of the reel drum and how smooth and solid things still were (although gummed up a bit) after some 30+ years of just sitting. Mind you, we never had these kind of freeze up problems when we were shopping these 70's games out in the late 80's and 90's. So, I guess the grease was good for at least 10 years!

Yes, I have worked on Williams and Bally mechs and yes, I will admit they are simpler in their approach but they also seem to experience more wear than a similar Gottlieb unit. I find it easier to tweek and lube a Gottlieb than for me to have to hunt down less-worn or new parts and replace them on B/W games.

The argument has been going on for years and will continue until the last EM finally falls but I still enjoy working on a Gottlieb any day over a Bally or Williams EM. (I won't even include Chicago Coin in the same sentence).

What I found on the one I was working on was someone had increase the tension of the 9 Carry over and run out switch blades so much that it put extra resistance on the rocker arm that reads the score reel position. Softened up the blades as they should be and everything worked smooth as silk.

More evidence that the Gottliebs were engineered better than B/W EMs came from a conversation I had with Tim Arnold at the PHOF. He stated that the Row of Gottlieb Wedge Heads gave him almost no problems years after the initial shop jobs. He couldn't say the same for the other EMs in the joint as his head was buried in another Bally game.....

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