(Topic ID: 77739)

Now Available: WILLIAMS Caps - FIREPOWER - GORGAR - FLASH

By ClassicArcades

8 years ago


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  • 43 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Toyguy
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182028a.jpg
Flash-Original-vs-repro.jpg
$T2eC16N,!yMFI,fl8b0SBSb-gtgwDw~~60_57[1].JPG
image.jpg

#1 8 years ago

Very limited qty as Rick (Planetary Pinball) and I only have a limited supply of blanks to make these from. We have more titles to make so do not miss out on this offering. NEXT UP IS SPACE SHUTTLE CAPS

Rick will also have these in stock at both PPS and BAA:

FIREPOWER CAPS:
ebay.com link: Williams FIREPOWER Pinball Machine Pop Bumper CAP Set BRAND NEW STAMPED

GORGAR CAPS:
ebay.com link: Williams GORGAR Pinball Machine Pop Bumper CAP Set BRAND NEW STAMPED

FLASH CAPS:
ebay.com link: Williams FLASH Pinball Machine Pop Bumper CAP Set BRAND NEW STAMPED

Thanks for looking
Jeff
Classic Arcades Inc.

Post edited by moderator: please dont use all caps in thread headers in the future.

#2 8 years ago

The description for FP says "3 new bumper caps". I'm guessing that's just the base text for all of them and it does actually come with 4 caps?
BTW, they look great! I needed these bad.

#3 8 years ago

Space shuttle caps... We've been waiting years for them!

#4 8 years ago
Quoted from dubby:

The description for FP says "3 new bumper caps". I'm guessing that's just the base text for all of them and it does actually come with 4 caps?
BTW, they look great! I needed these bad.

I hope there are 4 too, because I just placed my order.

#5 8 years ago

There are 4 caps in the firepower set. I will fix the auction

#6 8 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Space Shuttle caps... We've been waiting years for them!

yep i'd buy a set too!

#7 8 years ago

These are very yellowed and the silk screening is a little messy. Not really an upgrade...

image.jpg
#8 8 years ago
Quoted from ClassicArcades:

only have a limited supply of blanks to make these from

.....Seriously? Those can't be reproduced?

Quoted from catboxer:

These are very yellowed

See above...they're using NOS blanks that are probably 20+ years old.....and it's hot stamping, not silk screening.

#9 8 years ago

Wow I almost jumped on those GORGAR caps as mine are yellowed too....albeit if perfect shape. So much for the excitement of this thread. I'd rather have repros as at least they'd be white.

#10 8 years ago

It would have been nice to know they were NOS blanks, I would have passed. The only reason I wanted new caps was to match the new white bodies.

#11 8 years ago

Not even close to original. Was there some licensing issue with making an exact copy?

$T2eC16N,!yMFI,fl8b0SBSb-gtgwDw~~60_57[1].JPG

-1
#12 8 years ago

Looks like somebody chewed on yours.

#13 8 years ago

First of all, The caps Rick sent me were not yellow. They were white.
Secondly, The original cap artwork on flash, gorgar, and firepower was burned so deep into the cap on the originals that the original caps look like crap. Everyone has to nit pick and complain about everything before getting the facts.
The picture above are used original caps ( The ones that someone said they were chewed ). They are not the ones I offered. If someone else would like to go out and invest a quarter of a million dollars like I did get to all the equipment to make stuff for Rick then go right ahead.

The artwork that we recreated for the caps was redrawn and an improvement the over burnt hot stamped originals. Maybe you would rather we not remake any more caps.

This post does not apply to the individuals who respect and understand how much time, money, and effort is spent bringing products to the market.

Jeff

#14 8 years ago

Sorry, that paper is white. Those caps are yellowed. I have bought a lot of your products (bumper caps, apron decals, and drop targets) and have only positive things to say, but these are clearly not up to par. I'm not trying to be a dick. It's only 30 bucks, and great if you have missing caps, but I thought I would save others some disappointment.

-4
#15 8 years ago
Quoted from ClassicArcades:

If someone else would like to go out and invest a quarter of a million dollars like I did get to all the equipment to make stuff for Rick then go right ahead.

I mean, you could just donate it to a better cause and not profit on it?

#16 8 years ago

Those caps certainly look yellowed.

Perfect for replacing a single cap from an old yellow set, but maybe not a good choice if you got a new, white CPR playfield and wanted the game to look brand new.

That being said, now that the hot stamp dies are made (the expensive part), there should be no problem just making another batch with "pure white" cap stock.

Yellow caps for people who want the vintage look and pure white for those who want a brand new look.

#17 8 years ago

Here is why we cleaned up the artwork instead of burying the die into the cap and making the artwork impossible to read. The original caps were hotstamped to hard and looked like total crap.

Flash-Original-vs-repro.jpg

Jeff

#18 8 years ago

Guys ... do you think we just sit around and don't think about what we are doing. The caps are off white as they are supposed to be. If I had a $ for everyone who thought their version of their part was the exact color shape, etc etc I would be able to buy a ferrari tomorrow. The caps were color matched and are injected and are fine, there are many many many variation of shades of any color depending on the manufacturer at the time, as they had zero quality standards. We had sampled a number of caps from a number of games and determined the best color. If it is not YOUR color that's ok, because YOUR color is not everyone elses color.

As for the artwork - hotstamping is supposed be a very surface process - a 'good' and correct hotstamp is NOT supposed to be burnt into the plastic. The reason this happened on some of these caps was because the hotstamp was so large of surface area that you had to heat it up alot and put excessive amount of force to get the color transferred.

SO, unless there is some artwork that is NOT correct, which I've not yet seen, these are decent reproductions of the original.

thanks,
[email protected]

#19 8 years ago

by the way - most opaque white parts are NEVER to be white white like paper - paper is usually a brite white, which no parts that I know of were supposed to be.

#20 8 years ago

I'm still waiting for someone to make HS caps.

#22 8 years ago

Sorry, I guess I was unclear. While I certainly appreciate the effort that goes into remaking parts, I don't really see the point (especially for cosmetic parts) if there are blatant graphic/visual differences from the original. IMO a successful reproduction would be indistinguishable from NOS.

182028a.jpg

In the case of the Firepower caps, the font is wrong, the letters aren't lined up very well, the "O" is upside down, the Williams logo is wrong where the points cross in the middle, the red lines are not spaced correctly and are rounded instead of pointed, etc.

#23 8 years ago

thanks for that input, that input I can certainly agree on several of the points could be improved, so we will try overtime to do that ...

#24 8 years ago

While we are on the subject of poor reproductions, I need some:

1. Williams pop bumper bodies that are translucent like the originals, rather than opaque like all the current ones seem to be. The new opaque ones do a terrible job of lighting up the surrounding playfield.

2. Some translucent pop caps that are deep blue when lit. The current crop lights up light blue at best.

3. 3-D green standup targets that are deep green for AFM. The current batch is so light green when installed that it looks like they were in the sun for 10 years. I've been forced to buy used ones from a certain restorer and polish them up.

#25 8 years ago

1) we have the tool for the bumper bodies (the 'correct' height wms ones), and I think we are getting a little low, so I can see if we can do some transluscent ... I suspect the print says opaque, so it may be a matter of how opaque
2) deep blue popbumper caps - alot of manufacturers actually confuse -10 (blue) with -30 (light blue), so alot of -10's which should be VERY dark blue are not around ... I'll check to see if we had this happen to us as well, but we can certainly run a 'dark blue' as we have control of the tool for that as well.
3) 3-D green standup targets - I just got a new batch in of the target faces, so I will see - if there is anyway to show the difference let me know as I can check the ones I have and see what's up.

rick

#26 8 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

1. Williams pop bumper bodies that are translucent like the originals, rather than opaque like all the current ones seem to be.

WORD....

When I rebuilt the ones on Shuttle when I did my swap, I was kinda pissed off that they didn't transmit any light at all. That's what ultimately made me go with dropping them in Rit dye for a Red/White/Blue theme. Doesn't really currently affect me, but as many games as I go through in a year, it very easily could again....especially if I want to rebuild Future Spa's pop bumpers at some point.

#27 8 years ago

I think the repro's look ok. HS caps are a must have and you can sign me up for a set; as well it would be nice to see some traffic lights come available for HS as well. Mine is melted :/

#28 8 years ago

we've had traffic lights for HS available for years ... www.planetarypinball.com

#29 8 years ago
Quoted from ClassicArcades:

First of all, The caps Rick sent me were not yellow. They were white.
Secondly, The original cap artwork on flash, gorgar, and firepower was burned so deep into the cap on the originals that the original caps look like crap. Everyone has to nit pick and complain about everything before getting the facts.
The picture above are used original caps ( The ones that someone said they were chewed ). They are not the ones I offered. If someone else would like to go out and invest a quarter of a million dollars like I did get to all the equipment to make stuff for Rick then go right ahead.
The artwork that we recreated for the caps was redrawn and an improvement the over burnt hot stamped originals. Maybe you would rather we not remake any more caps.
This post does not apply to the individuals who respect and understand how much time, money, and effort is spent bringing products to the market.
Jeff

Quoted from PPS:

Guys ... do you think we just sit around and don't think about what we are doing. The caps are off white as they are supposed to be. If I had a $ for everyone who thought their version of their part was the exact color shape, etc etc I would be able to buy a ferrari tomorrow. The caps were color matched and are injected and are fine, there are many many many variation of shades of any color depending on the manufacturer at the time, as they had zero quality standards. We had sampled a number of caps from a number of games and determined the best color. If it is not YOUR color that's ok, because YOUR color is not everyone elses color.
As for the artwork - hotstamping is supposed be a very surface process - a 'good' and correct hotstamp is NOT supposed to be burnt into the plastic. The reason this happened on some of these caps was because the hotstamp was so large of surface area that you had to heat it up alot and put excessive amount of force to get the color transferred.
SO, unless there is some artwork that is NOT correct, which I've not yet seen, these are decent reproductions of the original.
thanks,
[email protected]

Since these are cosmetic reproduction pieces, I feel you are both missing a point: many restorers and collectors have a reasonable expectation that reproduction parts will even include the "mistakes" that were made on the original pieces. I understand that you are advertising these as new and not reproductions.

BTW, I would call the artwork on your Firepower and Flash caps similar, but I wouldn't associate the word "correct" with them. Those are the only two I scrutinized before posting.

All that being said, thanks for getting these out!

#30 8 years ago

I'm not missing the point at all ... suppliers attempt to make as similar as original parts as they can, sometimes they come up short, usually with reasons for doing so. We are allowed to advertise them as new as they are approved by WMS, therefore they are new parts, that is our right as a licensee. We produce and sell artwork and sell to the hardest core of restorers and collectors, so we 'know' the situation. thanks.

#31 8 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

we've had traffic lights for HS available for years ... http://www.planetarypinball.com

Rick, I have looked a few times on your website. I do believe they are outta stock

#33 8 years ago

That is the getaway stop light, totally different design. Hs one does seem to be out of stock at most places.

#34 8 years ago

That "chewed" look I was referring to was apparently the hot stamping process used in making the original caps. The new silk screen process does seem to be a better/cleaner method.

However, the art discrepancies GlistOverflow pointed out are pretty considerable. I think it's the combination of the off white/yellow color and the artwork that makes the repros stand out. Like someone else mentioned, I have a CPR playfield and plastics set so these really stand out not being white. If you're going to but a new playfield and new pop bumper bodies on a game, the caps should be white.

Anyone in the Chicago area want these repros for 20 bucks? I'm not bothering to ship them but I wont use them in my game.

#35 8 years ago

I appreciate the thumbs down guys ( especially from PPS ), but the point I was trying to make is that it's not like he's giving his money to charity and people aren't happy with it. He's a guy producing a product for profit. That alone welcomes the opinion of his customers to rate his product. Saying, essentially, "well, why don't YOU do it then?!" to an unsatisfied customer is a completely ridiculous response.

People who reproduce pinball products are doing the lord's work in my eyes.

#36 8 years ago

Some of the anal retentive people on here amaze me with their unrealistic expectations. I have collected and restored machines for 18 years and I am particular about my games and the parts I put on them. I too have gotten repro parts that were a bit disappointing. However, I am also mindful that if guys didnt invest money and time into these parts reproductions, said parts wouldn't exist. So stop complaining and the next time your yuppie friends come over to play your prized possessions and drink your epicurian brew, dont point out the fact that a bumper caps artwork wasnt quite up to snuff or doesn't quite match the original.

#38 8 years ago

I just my gorgar caps in. Are they perfect no. But do they look better than a burnt brow caps I have now? Yes

#39 8 years ago
Quoted from mario_1_up:

I just my gorgar caps in. Are they perfect no. But do they look better than a burnt brow caps I have now? Yes

Are they white? Can you post comparison pics to your old ones??

1 week later
#40 8 years ago

I got a set of Gorgar caps too...no complaints here.

#41 8 years ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

Are they white? Can you post comparison pics to your old ones??

Quoted from PPS:

by the way - most opaque white parts are NEVER to be white white like paper - paper is usually a brite white, which no parts that I know of were supposed to be.

I am amazed at the lack of reading comprehension and the amount of negativity thrown around in this hobby. I have been doing this for nearly 18 years now and have seen so many games get parted out due to a lack of parts that were not available to restore them.

To think that in some cases you can completely REBUILD a game from scratch (Classic Bally's) with virtually every single part that is new, is amazing and quite frankly unbelievable.

The fact that we have this stuff at all is what we should be grateful for. I am sure Rick/Jeff could do any number of things with their time/resources.

To just bitch and bitch about every little thing that comes out is ridiculous and counterproductive. Is any part perfect? No. Just like when the games were new the same thing happened right off the line, just as it does today in virtually every damn industry around. Are the parts new and fresh looking and can make a game look damn good? YES.

So thanks to Rick/Jeff/CPR/ et. al who pour their time, hearts, and souls into keeping these mechanical marvels running for our generation and beyond.

11 months later
#42 7 years ago

I have to agree and voice some disappointment that the Flash caps I bought aren't even silkscreened -- they're an image on a vinyl decal; as regards the ones for Firepower, I am disappointed that they weren't brought to an exact match. I shall have to find an alternate means of acquiring some or making some to spec for my own tables.

With regard to CPR, in general I am pretty happy with their production but was dismayed when they ran the Firepower playfields with starburst inserts (I bought a PF anyway because I needed a PF that's going to last me a while), and I'm still disappointed that the repro plastics for Wizard didn't have sufficient research going into them to realise that there's supposed to be an orange layer there (and they were still advertised as six-colour plastics -- I only counted black, white, red, yellow and blue). Not quite sure what I'm going to do on that end to fix the ones I have.

Pointing out detail is not "being ungrateful", by the way. Collectors of anything tend more often than not to have a keen eye for detail, and, where the thing in question can be restored, if we're going to be paying premium prices for repro restoration parts, I don't think our expectations that the new part should be nearly identical to the old one in appearance is misplaced, not one bit.

#43 7 years ago

I'd be happy if they'd crank out a proper reproduction of the Black Knight cap with the scrollwork around the rim. Hint, hint...

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