NOS/NEW Playfields Available for JAN 2018


By kruzman

3 months ago


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  • 39 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by jboner1058
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    There are 142 posts in topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 34 days ago

    Ron,

    You do great work and you should charge enough so that you’re able to live a good life. People will pay for high-quality work.

    #102 34 days ago
    Quoted from kruzman:

    I have been making under 20 g a year since doing this,

    You do realize that works out to about $10 an hour and not that you'd want to, but you could flip burgers for more money than that.

    I certainly don't want to tell you how to run your own business, Ron, but I feel the biggest mistake you make is not knowing when to say enough is enough. In economics, there's something called the law of diminishing returns. It's a phrase used to refer to a point at which the level of profits or benefits gained is less than the amount of money or energy invested. Knowing you, you'll spend 40 hours getting a playfield 95% perfect, then spend another 40 hours getting it the other 5%. Do you see the problem? I understand you want perfection, but sometimes it comes at too great a cost.

    More than once I've seen you post that you'll spend all day sanding and buffing a cleared playfield. Eight hours or more to sand and buff a playfield? That's nuts. I've got a local guy that does mine. I'll make you a bet. My guy takes less than a couple hours to do my playfields. I'll let you do one and my guy will do one and I'll let everyone compare them and guess who did which one. I don't think they could tell.

    Don't get me wrong, Ron, you do beautiful work. You just need to figure out a way to reduce the number of hours involved in each one. That, or double the cost.

    #103 34 days ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    I'll let you do one and my guy will do one and I'll let everyone compare them and guess who did which one. I don't think they could tell.

    I would bet I could tell, I have been to Rons house, hung out with him and seen plenty of his work, and have seen a few other playfield restorers work and will say that Rons playfields are the best work I have seen, yea he is ocd on his finishwork but when someone pays good money for a clearcoat they want it perfect and I know if I was spending good money on a clearcoat that I would want someone like Ron that cares about his reputation, Ive herd him say many times that he doesnt want one bad feedback. I grew up painting cars as a hobby and the costs of buying paint materials keep going up, the last car I painted cost me almost $2,500 just to buy the paint and clearcoat materials, some people want you to do an award winning paintjob for $500.00 because thats how much Maico charges.

    #104 34 days ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    In economics, there's something called the law of diminishing returns. It's a phrase used to refer to a point at which the level of profits or benefits gained is less than the amount of money or energy invested.

    Several times on @c2cpinball Nate discussed why it's economically advantageous to sell one item for $1000 rather than ten items for $100. Sometimes pride in one's work and reputation is more important than money. Priorities can change too. Work/life balance is different for everyone.

    Nothing wrong with charging what you're worth to people who will pay it and doing pro bono work when you feel like it too.

    #105 33 days ago

    Oh Ron find me a Gorgar playfield

    #106 33 days ago
    Quoted from crlush:

    I would bet I could tell, I have been to Rons house, hung out with him and seen plenty of his work, and have seen a few other playfield restorers work and will say that Rons playfields are the best work I have seen, yea he is ocd on his finishwork but when someone pays good money for a clearcoat they want it perfect and I know if I was spending good money on a clearcoat that I would want someone like Ron that cares about his reputation, Ive herd him say many times that he doesnt want one bad feedback.

    So you have no problem spending 8 or more hours sanding and buffing a playfield.

    #107 33 days ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    You do realize that works out to about $10 an hour and not that you'd want to, but you could flip burgers for more money than that.
    I certainly don't want to tell you how to run your own business, Ron, but I feel the biggest mistake you make is not knowing when to say enough is enough. In economics, there's something called the law of diminishing returns. It's a phrase used to refer to a point at which the level of profits or benefits gained is less than the amount of money or energy invested. Knowing you, you'll spend 40 hours getting a playfield 95% perfect, then spend another 40 hours getting it the other 5%. Do you see the problem? I understand you want perfection, but sometimes it comes at too great a cost.
    More than once I've seen you post that you'll spend all day sanding and buffing a cleared playfield. Eight hours or more to sand and buff a playfield? That's nuts. I've got a local guy that does mine. I'll make you a bet. My guy takes less than a couple hours to do my playfields. I'll let you do one and my guy will do one and I'll let everyone compare them and guess who did which one. I don't think they could tell.
    Don't get me wrong, Ron, you do beautiful work. You just need to figure out a way to reduce the number of hours involved in each one. That, or double the cost.

    Ron, take this bet, I’ll put $500 on it. Probably cheating as I have seen your work next to so many others.

    #108 33 days ago
    Quoted from Rock914:

    Ron, take this bet, I’ll put $500 on it. Probably cheating as I have seen your work next to so many others.

    LOL I have also seen Ron's work. I've installed many of his playfields in the restorations I've done. Ron does beautiful work.

    #109 33 days ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    So you have no problem spending 8 or more hours sanding and buffing a playfield.

    I don't restore playfields to the level that Ron does, I have done touchup and clearcoat work on playfields, but im not as picky on a pinball machine as I am on a car, Ron is. So to answer your question, no

    #110 33 days ago

    I’ve seen Ron’s work too. It’s fantastic stuff.

    I don’t think Bryan is trying to start a pissing match about who can buff a PF fastest /cheapest.

    I think What Bryan is try to say is Ron needs to figure out how to get paid better than 20k for what he does… Or one of these days Ron is going to say “F-it I don’t need this anymore”

    Ron’s work is phenomenal, The EBD he did for me is a work of art!

    #111 33 days ago
    Quoted from BobLangelius:

    I’ve seen Ron’s work too. It’s fantastic stuff.
    I don’t think Bryan is trying to start a pissing match about who can buff a PF fastest /cheapest.
    I think What Bryan is try to say is Ron needs to figure out how to get paid better than 20k for what he does… Or one of these days Ron is going to say “F-it I don’t need this anymore”
    Ron’s work is phenomenal, The EBD he did for me is a work of art!

    As someone that owns a playfield finished by Ron and a playfield finished by Bryan's clear coater, I can say they both do phenomenal work on the clear itself.

    The underlying problem is that most people in the hobby don't understand all of the work that Ron does to make a playfield perfect and therefore don't want to pay the higher prices.

    One thing that I think would be helpful would be a lot of before/after pictures to show all the things that he fixes on each playfield. Bryan and HEP do a great job in this area and it really helps to justify the costs.

    I think Ron cares a lot about his reputation and finishing something 95% just wouldn't be something he wanted to do. Besides - down the line when someone sells a Kruzman playfield, we would need to ask - is it one of those he did 95% or 100%?

    #112 33 days ago
    Quoted from BobLangelius:

    I’ve seen Ron’s work too. It’s fantastic stuff.
    I don’t think Bryan is trying to start a pissing match about who can buff a PF fastest /cheapest.
    I think What Bryan is try to say is Ron needs to figure out how to get paid better than 20k for what he does… Or one of these days Ron is going to say “F-it I don’t need this anymore”
    Ron’s work is phenomenal, The EBD he did for me is a work of art!

    Thank you! That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to say.

    #113 33 days ago

    I also stand corrected. It takes my guy close to half a day to sand and buff.

    #114 33 days ago

    I appreciate brians opinion because he has installed my work, as well as everyone's opinions, and nice comments. It drives me nuts when I feel I have to recoat a pf because after I polish it I find 2 little flaws, but I know I am an addict type and if I lower the bar, I will keep going. I also studied the law of diminishing returns, but my problem is I cant evaluate jobs until I start sanding them. I think I am just going to do what I have never done and start turning down jobs, and raise my price. I will definatly make an announcement on my thread, so people will know, and then they can use my service when they want something special, and use the less expensive guys for stuff they may sell or dont care about or are a budget. (to me none of those are reasons to do anything but the best, but my way is not everyone's way.)
    The things that I think are really important are the things that suck my time. waiting 15 days between sets of 2 coats and 3 weeks after the last, Block sanding rather than using the da sander on the last sand, and also making it level especially around cut outs, after the last coat, meaning the 8 hours of sanding and polishing plus an hour to clean out all of the holes with a rag.. Another thing that added another 2 hours to a job, is I use the da sander between coats, but I spent 30 mins going thru and hand sanding edges and dimples ect, when a couple years I didnt bother. So those things are really important to me, I will just choose jobs rather than taking all, and raise my price a little. I am very thankful for my install kit, because I make some profit on that which really helps. Anyway I will figure it out, the truth is I feel lucky to do what I do, but I just had to get an important tooth pulled because I couldn't afford the 2500 to get it repaired, and that kind of stuff sucks, and that is why I was crying about not making much, and I apologize.

    #115 33 days ago

    please dont change your process!

    Just charge more!!!!!!

    What you do it worth it!

    #116 33 days ago

    The only thing I was really commenting on Bryan was your comment about not being able to tell the difference between your body guys work and Ron’s. I know you do very nice work and Ron always speaks highly of you but that comment is total crap IMO. I haven’t seen your guys work that I know of but bring one to Expo and we can do a little comparison like we did with Mirco a few years ago. I think we used @timebandit tommy playfield vs. Mirco’s FH, and a few others. The difference was total night and day with the two side by side. Mirco does nice work as well but the difference is very easy to see and that’s only at the surface. Dig Deeper and you find all the little things like rubbing compound, you will find Ron has taken the time to remove all traces of the stuff.

    #117 33 days ago

    Charge more; you’re worth it!

    #118 33 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    please dont change your process!
    Just charge more!!!!!!
    What you do it worth it!

    Quoted from mschonbrun:

    Charge more; you’re worth it!

    I couldn't agree more!! Keep doing what you're doing, Ron.

    #119 33 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    please dont change your process!
    Just charge more!!!!!!
    What you do it worth it!

    you heard it here, charge hilton more to pick up the slack!

    #120 33 days ago
    Quoted from mschonbrun:

    Charge more; you’re worth it!

    Wait, let me get my playfields quoted first before you do.

    John

    #121 33 days ago
    Quoted from Dayhuff:

    Wait, let me get my playfields quoted first before you do.
    John

    I assumed that you get bulk pricing

    Marc

    #122 32 days ago
    Quoted from BurnDizzyBurn:

    Keep me posted as I’m looking to do a full high end restore and most playfields on this title are shot so this would be great....and if I know now I can get saving!!

    will do, for sure. During the winter I am always playing catch up because of the cold. I cant get my shop over 75 when it is below 20 outside. some winters that is only 3 weeks. this winter I am way behind, but the next 10 days will be perfect. so I will prob start the simps in march april unless I get swamped.

    #123 32 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    you heard it here, charge hilton more to pick up the slack!

    happy to pay Ron what e is worth!

    #124 32 days ago

    Thanks hilton, chris, bryan, and everyone else. I feel like the queen of the rodeo!

    #125 32 days ago

    It looks like I am going to pick up a couple TAF pf's to tweek out and clear like the centaurs. they wont be done till spring because I want to sand them and let them cure for a couple months.

    #126 32 days ago

    Anyone got a new EK playfield for sale?
    I also have a few playfields I'd trade.
    MB, RBIOn, CSI.

    #127 30 days ago

    EK is one of those games that is a great candidate for a restore and new pf. It is one of the best playing/looking games in that bally era. I dont usually buy the pf's because the nos pf's take more money than they cost to repaint the cracked paint and inserts, and when it comes to the repos and I pay 700 plus 70 shipping, and have to sell it for 900, the chance of selling is zero. the chance of hearing "Thats more than I paid for the whole game" several times is 100%.
    I will watch for one and I will let you know if I find anything.
    All of the first gen digital ballys are great with new pf's and painted cabs. Great way to get your feet wet on pf swaps.

    #128 29 days ago

    The NBA fastbreak and the Gameshow are no longer available. That nba fastbreak was a steal, at 550 cleared by bill davis, drilled and dimpled, nos.
    Thanks to everyone for their support

    #129 28 days ago

    Here is a link to a post about installing un-dimpled pf's. Its very helpful, and I dont have the vocabulary to explain the frustration and depression you will experience if you try to do this your first install.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nerdygrrls-guide-on-what-to-do-if-your-new-pf-isnt-dimpled#post-4187705

    I offer drill /dimple service for pf's that are not. (drilled and dimpled)
    Keep in mind when you buy a pf that it is going to cost you 300 dollars plus shipping to get the work done by me.

    Pinball is not for the weak at heart (or of low disposable income)

    #130 23 days ago

    There is a used IJ pf, along with a cabinet, and possibly other parts on Mr pinball this morning. I was notified the minute it was posted by r cheek, and I had all ready talked to the fella, but since it is in such high demand, I thought I would post it for folks looking.
    cheers, kruzman

    #132 21 days ago

    By the way it was made on jan 28 th so it is down at the bottom concerning inserts lifting on reproduction pf's after owning them for a couple months. I dont think he mentioned it but also wood grain starts showing.
    This phenomena very rarely happens on pf's from 1996 and earlier unless the inserts are all ready very unlevel

    #133 21 days ago
    Quoted from kruzman:

    There is a good topic that superbee brought up in this thread
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hsii-getaway-high-speed-ii-repro-playfield-pre-order-2017/page/2#post-4199094
    I did my best to answer it

    Sorry Ron, I stopped reading after "This happens a lot."

    Brad

    #134 21 days ago

    Thanks for responding to my problem Ron. Really appreciate it. I just asked you a follow up question in that thread a few mins ago. Don't want to flood your thread with my questions about a playfield that is not from you.

    2 weeks later
    #135 5 days ago

    I have a new potential customer looking to restore a FT game and is looking for a repro/nos pf. If anyone has an extra to sell, please contact me personally and I will put you in touch with him, and possibly have the pf sent directly to me to save on shipping.

    Thank you everyone for your support

    #136 5 days ago

    Valentine's Day BUMP for Ron and him trying to help another pinhead.

    Brad

    #137 5 days ago

    Where you been hiding Ron?

    #138 5 days ago

    He’s hibernating with those freezing cold winters up there

    #139 5 days ago
    Quoted from kruzman:

    I have a new potential customer looking to restore a FT game and is looking for a repro/nos pf. If anyone has an extra to sell, please contact me personally and I will put you in touch with him, and possibly have the pf sent directly to me to save on shipping.
    Thank you everyone for your support

    Fantasy Starship still has Fish Tales playfields in stock Ron, at least according to their website.

    #140 4 days ago

    This crazy assed weather has made it so I have not got crap done as far as the job goes, but the forecast looks like I can work at least the next 10 days without any problems at all which is great. I have been doing 2 extra coats, but making each coat thinner, for hardness. I experimented with a thinner finished thickness, but I found that the inserts tend to expand and contract more (with change in temp) than they usually do, and just making them easier to feel. So it was a good experiment, but the thickness that I have been doing for the last aprox 3 years is about perfect for the material I am using. Although the insert expansion varies a lot depending on if it is a nos pf, and from what era. Repro pf's seem to experience the most insert expansion. and used pf's the least. How about that. Since I didnt set up this experiment from the beginning to focus on insert expansion, there is really no conclusions in stone. It just solidifies what I figured would happen if that makes any sense at all.
    so really this post is nothing but hot air, but this is the internet. Suppose it would be good for facebook also.
    OK back to work. its 40 deg. Now it is easy to maintain the shop at the perfect 75 degrees that my clear and paint loves. I will return to post more hot air when the temp gets back in the single digits. ha.

    Thanks as always for the support. I will check starship fantasy for FT pf's

    #141 4 days ago
    Quoted from kruzman:

    This crazy assed weather has made it so I have not got crap done as far as the job goes, but the forecast looks like I can work at least the next 10 days without any problems at all which is great. I have been doing 2 extra coats, but making each coat thinner, for hardness. I experimented with a thinner finished thickness, but I found that the inserts tend to expand and contract more (with change in temp) than they usually do, and just making them easier to feel. So it was a good experiment, but the thickness that I have been doing for the last aprox 3 years is about perfect for the material I am using. Although the insert expansion varies a lot depending on if it is a nos pf, and from what era. Repro pf's seem to experience the most insert expansion. and used pf's the least. How about that. Since I didnt set up this experiment from the beginning to focus on insert expansion, there is really no conclusions in stone. It just solidifies what I figured would happen if that makes any sense at all.
    so really this post is nothing but hot air, but this is the internet. Suppose it would be good for facebook also.
    OK back to work. its 40 deg. Now it is easy to maintain the shop at the perfect 75 degrees that my clear and paint loves. I will return to post more hot air when the temp gets back in the single digits. ha.
    Thanks as always for the support. I will check starship fantasy for FT pf's

    We have the same crazy weather here too.

    #142 1 hour ago

    How long would you suggest waiting after we get our playfields before doing the dremmel work and playfield install? Couple of months to fully cure?

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