Good for you Dennis! I'm excited to see how this works out.

+1. And what do you know.... of the pins that Gerry has in his gameroom, one of them just happens to be a very nice Whitewater.

The concept is certainly intriguing. I'm a little worried that it may limit the mechanics of the table too much though. I'd like to see it utilized as an enhancement and not a replacement for traditional toys and mechanisms. I just hate the look of empty playfields. It will be exciting to see how it turns out and with Dennis involved, a major plus.

Can they do pop bumpers on it?

I pre-ordered mine a while back - this latest news is really exciting. I absolutely can't wait to get my hands on this machine. So different than anything else out there!

This is exciting if only for the prospects of a theme that isn't a licensed property!

Just finished reading the Pinball News story ( http://www.pinballnews.com/games/p3/index4.html ) and the PGJ interview with Dennis ( http://www.pingamejournal.com/world/ ), and concluded that Dennis is basically trying to set the P3 apart from any preceding pinball examples, including WOZ. There sure is nothing wrong with that 'cause P3 won't be a real pinball anyways. I wish him success and lots of luck. He's a great pinball designer, and more than a few reputable guys who know him personally tell us that he's also a very nice fellow.

As to P3, it looks to me as though the 'two little tiny playfields at the top' won't be the only things missin from this 'pin'. It's not goin to have pop bumbers, target sets, vuks, mist balls, jumps ropes, flyin monkeys, or you name it many other things neither. Their talkin about a 'real' pinball and a 'virtual' pinball playing together, which sounds nice, but I'm fraid that it's a tall order that'll manifest itself on the shorter side of a 'real pin' in the end.

Being a pinball designer these days probly is not a easy thing jobwise, even if you're a good designer like Dennis, and guys like him have gotta do what they gotta to do to stay inspired, engaged, and employed. Sure would be nice to see Dennis back at JJP someday committing his mind and soul to designing more real pins again.

Meanwhile let's entertain ourselves with some real music and hope that pinball as we know it doesn't cease to exist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cpbbuaIA3Ds

Not real pinball?

Pinballs - check
Flippers - check
ramps, drop targets, subways, diverters, stand up targets - check

Oh, I forgot, unless it's JJP it isn't. Thanks for reminding us...

Let's not forget Stern, the only maker of REAL pinball games on the planet. But, your right, JJP is in a class of its own, all by itself. I agree.

Crap, not even P3 threads are safe from the Gary & Jack shenanigans Which makes me want to eat dinner at Bennigan's & see Kirstie Alley from Cheers all thinagans

Dennis - With the information you provided us, is there still hope for an Elvira 3 through Stern, (or JJP) knowing that there truly is an audience for this title? Or even possibly a Whoa, Nellie!? (I really liked your modern take on a classic-styled game)

Regardless, I'm still very happy to learn of your involvement w/ P3 as we are all well aware of your previous designing efforts involving original themes with Bally/Williams. I've enjoyed 90% or better of your B/W games, so I'm sure this future effort will be a 'home run' too. I'm all in, either way... (and I know I'm not alone) Best of luck!

LOL That was funny!

I can confirm that Elvira will not happen through JJP, that came from Jack himself.

Hey Pinballwizrd79, daT'S funny

See what you did Chuck, I mean 'chessiv', you should be tellin' no tales or gossipin', now that's kinda plain an' simple, don't ya think? BTW, what happend to the game that was comin out three months ago?

Thanks LBJ - disappointing news for sure, but good to know. I'm still hopeful that Dennis/Greg can put something together with Stern as Dennis has previously worked with the company & Greg is currently with them. I would be completely fine with Stern manufacturing the last of the Elvira games as I really think Stern has come a long way over the past couple of years, quality & title wise. Hiring George Gomez at an executive level was a wise move (IMO), especially w/ quality designers already on-board like Steve Ritchie & John Borg.

Just watching that prototype video. Wow! Now *that* is innovation.

Not to be a downer, but I can't honestly see this being a viable platform for future software upgrades. I can't see how they're going to sell enough base games at $10k to make developing a long line of new software for them a viable proposition. That market is just too shallow, unless they're going to charge crazy prices, and people will actually consistently pay them.

I am very optimistic about the P3 project. I remember swapping some emails with Gerry when he first decided to create the P-Roc board. Since then I have followed with interest. P3 just strikes me as innovative and the kind of radical thinking that maybe this industry needs. I see my kids and their friends have little interest in the pins, but the MAME machine gets constant attention. The recent releases from the major players are interesting, but not game changing. I can't wait to see what this team does next.

I still have no idea how the end product will look and play.

Interesting but i am not excited so far.

when I played this at Expo, the flipper mechs were amazing! Really crisp feel to them!

It came out and is doing well. Since you know my name and what I do, what's your name and what do you do for jjp besides posting on newsgroups

Because the screen is so low, after all it dips below the flippers, I'm not sure this will be all that limiting. Most machines don't have much in that area anyway. It's basically a "pass over" area to get you your ramps, loops and scoops.

I'd probably redesign the areas on the sides of the screen. The five linear drop targets on each side just seems a little lazy. On one side give me a single target, third flipper and a kickout to the ramp return. Basically the right side of Jurassic Park. On the other side a string of targets would be simple enough, but angle them back towards the flippers. Just give out new plastics for each game. I'm sure that's not a major cost.

I'd also start the game by launching the ball in across the screen. Why not put a diverted on the launch lane to allow for different games to start completely different. I just think there could be some really fun skillshots using the screen.

Is there any reason there couldn't be pop bumpers? I understand they can't go through the screen, but why couldn't they add them to the back of the playfield? Did they just say their wouldn't be any?

I think they need to get these machines into the hands of the collectors and make their money on the expansions.

Sad to hear about the unlikely Elvira pin, but certainly excited to see what Dennis comes up with for this team. And yes, very cool to see someone of his stature post here.

I like it!

When I saw this at PPE and went to the seminar, I thought that it was a great show of new technology in pinball. It reminded me of seeing a new car engine without a body.

What I thought was missing was soul. What I mean is, I wanted the parts to equal the whole. Going back to my other analogy, I wanted to see the engine in a car. When I see what Dennis has planned, that is when I will get excited about the P3.

I know that there possibly won't be a backglass/translite, and its departure adds an element by having more people view the game, but IMO that would be a mistake. Nothing kicks butt like a cool looking backglass.

FYI, if you read the Pinball News article Nordman says he plans on adding additional lower playfield mechanics to his game

FYI, Gerry says the LCD screen is 3D compatible....

well time to get rid of my fiance...Only way I will be able to purchase one..she'd flip if I got one...so who needs a honeymoon? I love this machine!! VERY COOL!!

I never knew there was a true definition of pinball..isn't virtual pinball XBOX pinball. Besides, what is wrong with changing the definition of "real pinball?" I like old school too, but why not offer both?

Very interesting news. Congratulations to Dennis and Gerry!

Without a back glass it just would not feel right to me.I am all for the new technology that p3 offers,just figure a way for a back glass.

Innovative!

And I am a big Nordman fan.

I look forward to playing a Nordman P3.

I agree, it should have a backglass. Maybe another screen, so you're not stuck on any one theme. Because it's so different already, I think they need to bring back some traditional features. Give me some wire ramps, pop bumpers, jets and a backglass. The optical playfield screen is an amazing "toy", but I still want my traditional pinball.

Wow - thanks for all of the feedback so far. The support for this project continues to blow us away!

The current prototype upper playfield doesn't have pop bumpers or traditional toys, but there's nothing about the platform that precludes them. If the designer for a playfield module wants them, they'll be there. I'll leave it up to you to guess whether a seasoned designer like Dennis will want them.

We've heard ya - loud and clear. The Pinball News article, and our Special Edition feature list both include our decision to include a themeable backbox. The cabinet is being designed to look complete (subject to personal preference of course) with or without the backbox. We haven't yet decided if it will have an LCD or use translites, but we're currently leaning towards translites so that the full backbox graphics remain visible when power is off.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

Wow, that you for replying...

I think keeping your option open on the translight is a good idea. Obviously, because it's an "option" it won't be housing any electronics. If it's just the translight, it's basically a light box. Even if it didn't come with one, it's not like it would be a hard aftermarket modification. I just think it would provide a more traditional look. Not that your look has to be traditional. I feel this project could very well be the future of home pinball.

I was thinking LCD only because it would make swapping the themes cheaper, then again I don't really know the cost of reprinting and swapping out new translights...Lot's of variables, because again, this all depends on your intentions or goals with future themes (if any).

PS: I noticed the project awhile ago, but it never really clicked how those pop up scoops and drop targets worked. I'm not sure why not, but this time it clicked. Are they a part of the permanent lower playfield? Currently where do they deposit the ball? I honestly spent my entire 1-hour commute thinking of ways those features could be utilized. So many fun options!

Whatever technology you use, hopefully it won't produce glare. I was actually looking forward to a pin design with no backbox. For home use, the glare downside (during play) outweighs the upside. I also don't see the need to add extra weight and cost...the pin is already quite expensive. From my perspective, backboxes/backglasses are a throwback to advertising pins in an arcade environment. Given your progressive design point, I wouldn't be shy about breaking from the past. Nevertheless, I think it's cool you are listening to the feedback from the community.

Good luck with the project. Can't wait to play one!

The current prototype upper playfield doesn't have pop bumpers or traditional toys, but there's nothing about the platform that precludes them. If the designer for a playfield module wants them, they'll be there. We've heard ya - loud and clear. The Pinball News article, and our Special Edition feature list both include our decision to include a themeable backbox. The cabinet is being designed to look complete (subject to personal preference of course) with or without the backbox. We haven't yet decided if it will have an LCD or use translites, but we're currently leaning towards translites so that the full backbox graphics remain visible when power is off.
- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

If the game is housed in an appealing crate (cabinet), if it has interesting, preferably functional toys and wire forms, if it has sex appeal and good music (I'm not talkin about neon electro funk), if the designers/engineers/coders aren't suffocated to save a few bucks, it may have a soul, thus potential. Check these out:

image1.jpg image7.jpg image4.jpg

Hmm..I'm tempted to both *thumbs up* and *thumbs down* this. I don't totally disagree, I also enjoy all the functional toys, wire forms, etc. Basically all the mechanical elements found on a pinball machine; but whats stopping them from adding those thing to the P3? The screen is covering an area that is a passover area on most pinball machines. The P3 is putting it to use, without taking up any space or limiting any long shots. All we've seen so far is a prototype that basically shows that screen and flippers function. I'm sure many of the things you associate with "real pinball" will find a home on the P3.

It came out and is doing well. Since you know my name and what I do, what's your name and what do you do for jjp besides posting on newsgroups

Actually, I'm a member of the all-volunteer 'JJP Cheerleading Group'

volunteer_cheerleader.jpg

Hey Dennis...
I know you have done Elvira, and Big Juicy Melons...There seems to be a theme there?? We also know that you are not opposed to signing said Melons...So, I could see that screen in the middle of the PF having some really interesting possibilities!! (LOL!! J/K Dennis, you know I am a charter member of your fan club!!)
Got to play the P3 they had at Expo, it was pretty interesting and also enjoy BJM. (wish I could afford 1 or both!!) Glad to see that you are back in designing mode again...I know whatever you come up with will be a fun design/game to play!! I see this platform advancing pinball to the next level to keep it out there and relevant! Good luck with it and have fun!!!

Phoebe

Machine looks super cool but kind of plain at the same time. I hope it doesn't end up being really limiting in what it can do with that layout...definitely cool but I think I'll wait for version 2 or at least seeing it in person before shelling out that kind of cash.

Great to see innovation though, great job guys!

You just lost all credibility in this discussion. By your rationale "The Shadow" isn't "real" pinball because it doesn't have pop bumpers.

P3 has real balls, real flippers, real ramps, real slings, real targets, real scoops...so - instead of inserts it has a big interactive "touch" screen.

The Shadow is a top-tier real pin and even you know it, and I won't be dragged into compartmentalized demagoguery with you on the account of which pins have pop bumpers or not. I appreciate the fact, however, that you got to play WOZ at PPE (which you had paid for already) and it wasn't fun at all to you. I guess I'll have to defer to your expertise, taste, and judgement from now on for all matters relating to pinball, while 1000 + pre-paid WOZ owners and I anxiously await our deliveries.

As far as losing credibility in this discussion, it's best that we leave that to Stellenberg and Nordman who seem to be encouraging genuine feedback, not just fishing for praise and congrats. As such, I'd suggest to them that with a huge LCD occupying the PF and being the center of attention, maybe they should seriously consider, among other things, giving this game a real backbox, or some sort of additional real estate, in which where things like theme/mode-related light shows and symphonic sound can be amalgamated/delivered in an ancillary, enriching fashion. They might even consider a wide-body for they're game so they can stick a few 'real' toys and pop-bumpers around the actual silverball action area. Just as long as the final product doesn't look like it's hastily been put together in Victor Frankenstein's lab.

NBA Fastbreak had that.

I had forgotten about that. Probably because .... it was NBA Fastbreak.

Never had the chance (nor really care) to play a linked version ... because it's NBA Fastbreak. Was it implemented well? (notwithstanding that .... it's NBA Fastbreak).

unlike driving games head to head pinball is not the same. Under then the few games that where setup to be 2 players at the same time.

Pinball is players taking turns.

Now that total recall looked cool but likely cost to much to make.

Can't wait to see what they will come up with.

You have to consider that P3 isn't just locked in to what old school pinball is. With so much of the table being dynamic (the lighting, and of course the display) one players actions can directly affect the other game in all sorts of ways. Like in Tetris when you play side by side and completed lines drop junk on the other player. You could have cooperative goals where both players have to hit a certain thing to progress a feature, or competitive items where hitting shots on your table disables things on the other (un-light the other player's lock, perhaps?). All of which can be made very apparent rather easily on the P3.

Pins4fun = KJ?