(Topic ID: 200574)

noob Time Machine Flippers and Sound

By super56k

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by mbaumle
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

tip (resized).png
tmf (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

Hello All,

I'm brand new to these forums and brand new to pinball so I'm pretty much a noob. I have been into collecting video-arcade machines since 2008 (check me out on KLOV), however, so I do have some experience with fixing games. Anywho, I recently got my first pinball game, a DataEast Time Machine in good shape but non-working for free. It had been in the previous owners home for quite some time and he said one day, it just quit working. All it did after that was all lights on and a LOUD hum. I brought it home and here is what I have done:

I checked the test points on the PSU and +5v was ALL OVER THE PLACE. Several of the caps where visibly bad too. The large cap on the PSU (filter cap?) was swollen and looked like it was about to explode. I hate old linear power supplies anyway so out it came and in went a a new RottenDog PSU. Now the game powers up! "TIME MACHINE" it exclaims!

Pretty soon, I can tell one of the coils is stuck. It smells like a tire fire. I track it down to the right (red) pop bumper I believe they are called. The pop bumper switch is not stuck as it passes in diagnostics. I went ahead and disconnected the solenoid/coil? for now. You can start a game, but the flippers don't work. I ran the game through all of it's diagnostics, and everything passes except the disconnected pop bumper and it does not see the flipper buttons when I press them. It does not detect any "bad switches" but pressing them does nothing. I checked the switches for continuity and I can trace them all the way up to where they connect on the main game board (MPU?). I took the MPU board out and re-flowed the solder on EVERY connector. Put it all back together and same thing.

Also, there is still a hum coming from the speakers but it's much more tolerable. The hum seems to be a known issue with DataEast pins as some googling relieved several posts here on pinside but with no good solutions it seems?

Here are my questions:

*What else could be causing my flipper buttons to not work?

*Anyone know what could be causing the pop bumper to always be energized?

*Any know solution for the speaker hum?

My Time Machine and I thank you for your time in advance.

#2 6 years ago

Welcome! I hope you'll find the advice you're looking for. Admittedly, I am no expert on these particular games, but from I understand, this generation of Data East games are nearly identical to the hardware used in William's System 11 games (except for a few hardware differences here and there).

So, for the flippers, start easy. Check all the fuses. The flippers should be fused in the backbox on the PPB board. If the fuses check out, check for 50 volts at the flipper coil. Do this part with a game started. Also, while you're under there, check the end-of-stroke switches. They should be normally closed.

If that all checks out, there's a relay that engages the flippers. It's enabled from a transistor on the CPU board. Looking in the manual, it's a little vague, but I think It's Q80--don't quote me on that though.

Same goes for your pop bumper. Honestly, if it smelled like it was burning, it might be too late. Check for continuity though. Anything less than 2 ohms is a short. Otherwise, I'll bet that it's another fried transistor that's causing it to lock on. According to the manual, that'd be either Q8, Q9, or Q11. Those are the transistors for the pops. Again, I'm not sure which transistor corresponds to the pop bumper you're having issues with.

Testing procedures can be found on pinwiki. Not sure if you've been there yet, but it's a fantastic resource. There's also a ton of guys here that are far more useful than I am, but I at least hope I can steer you in the right direction. Good luck!

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Welcome! I hope you'll find the advice you're looking for. Admittedly, I am no expert on these particular games, but from I understand, this generation of Data East games are nearly identical to the hardware used in William's System 11 games (except for a few hardware differences here and there).
So, for the flippers, start easy. Check all the fuses. The flippers should be fused in the backbox on the PPB board. If the fuses check out, check for 50 volts at the flipper coil. Do this part with a game started. Also, while you're under there, check the end-of-stroke switches. They should be normally closed.
If that all checks out, there's a relay that engages the flippers. It's enabled from a transistor on the CPU board. Looking in the manual, it's a little vague, but I think It's Q80--don't quote me on that though.
Same goes for your pop bumper. Honestly, if it smelled like it was burning, it might be too late. Check for continuity though. Anything less than 2 ohms is a short. Otherwise, I'll bet that it's another fried transistor that's causing it to lock on. According to the manual, that'd be either Q8, Q9, or Q11. Those are the transistors for the pops. Again, I'm not sure which transistor corresponds to the pop bumper you're having issues with.
Testing procedures can be found on pinwiki. Not sure if you've been there yet, but it's a fantastic resource. There's also a ton of guys here that are far more useful than I am, but I at least hope I can steer you in the right direction. Good luck!

Thank you for the quick reply and valuable information! I've not checked out pinwiki but I will now. I'll measure the coil but it does still work. If I take the detached wire and touch it to the coil it still drives it while connected and returns wile disconnected. Fuses and transistors I can check. I'll look there as well. If nothing else, you've given me great places to start. Thanks again!

#4 6 years ago

AhHa! F5, which is the "5A Slo-Blo Flipper Power 48VAC" according to the manual for this game, was blown!

Curiously, the fuse in it's spot that blew, was a 8A 250V 312. I wonder if the higher rating was on purpose? Maybe some bulletin later came out to use a higher amp rating because these blowing was an issue? I just hope the old PSU dieing is what took this one out.

#5 6 years ago

That’s a big red flag. Something is causing it to blow. With a multimeter, check your flipper coils for any shorts with the continuity setting. Also check the end of stroke switch to make sure it’s opening with a full flipper extension.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

That’s a big red flag. Something is causing it to blow. With a multimeter, check your flipper coils for any shorts with the continuity setting. Also check the end of stroke switch to make sure it’s opening with a full flipper extension.

Well I should have not been impatient and waited for your reply because I replaced the fuse with another 5a to see if it would blow again and this happened:

tmf (resized).jpgtmf (resized).jpg

#7 6 years ago

There's definitely a dead short someplace, I'm guessing. It might be one of the bridge rectifiers.

Oh man... Yikes. Could be much worse, but now you have some board work ahead of you. Here's what you do moving forward: Unplug the game, check every single fuse, and compare it against what is specified in the manual. Replace any over/under fused ones with proper replacements. Check all the bridge rectifiers, Then, under the playfield, check the ohms of every single coil. Each one. Admittedly, that's usually a good baseline strategy for any new-to-you game. But check each one. Anything under 2 ohms is a dead short, and should be replaced. While you're at it, check the diodes across the lugs of each coil. They're typically 1N4004 diodes, and their primary function is to prevent an EMF spike from taking out components on the CPU/Driver board. Replace any that are broken or open or shorted. Same goes for the flipper coils. When you replace them, the banded side of the diode is wired into the power side of the wires going into the coil. Power cables are almost always noted by the thicker wire, or sometimes there are two wires daisy chained.

But familiarize yourself with the way the game works by reading up on all the material you can from pinwiki. That'll give you a good idea of what you'll be up against, and give you good testing procedures for diodes, bridges, and switches.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

There's definitely a dead short someplace, I'm guessing. It might be one of the bridge rectifiers.
Oh man... Yikes. Could be much worse, but now you have some board work ahead of you. Here's what you do moving forward: Unplug the game, check every single fuse, and compare it against what is specified in the manual. Replace any over/under fused ones with proper replacements. Check all the bridge rectifiers, Then, under the playfield, check the ohms of every single coil. Each one. Admittedly, that's usually a good baseline strategy for any new-to-you game. But check each one. Anything under 2 ohms is a dead short, and should be replaced. While you're at it, check the diodes across the lugs of each coil. They're typically 1N4004 diodes, and their primary function is to prevent an EMF spike from taking out components on the CPU/Driver board. Replace any that are broken or open or shorted. Same goes for the flipper coils. When you replace them, the banded side of the diode is wired into the power side of the wires going into the coil. Power cables are almost always noted by the thicker wire, or sometimes there are two wires daisy chained.
But familiarize yourself with the way the game works by reading up on all the material you can from pinwiki. That'll give you a good idea of what you'll be up against, and give you good testing procedures for diodes, bridges, and switches.

After cleaning the PPB board with alcohol, I can see that R16 is what blew up. I mean visible flames when I turned it on. Why on earth did the fuse not stop it?

Thank you for your advice. I'm going to find out what R16 is in the manual and replace it, then I'll go through the steps you suggested before powering this game on again.

#9 6 years ago

Ok, so in looking at the schematic of the PPB-1 PCB in the Time Machine manual to find the value of the resistor I need to replace, R16 tied to Q4, it looks like it's 220 ohm, however, the schematic also states that Q1 through Q5 are TIP36C. On my board, Q1 through Q3 along with their respective diodes and resistors are not even populated, and although Q4 is a TIP36C, Q5 is a TIP34C. What's with the inconsistency? I'm guessing that the unpopulated areas are for other pins that use this board, but the mismatched transistors?

tip (resized).pngtip (resized).png

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from super56k:

On my board, Q1 through Q3 along with their respective diodes and resistors are not even populated, and although Q4 is a TIP36C, Q5 is a TIP34C.

I wish I could tell you. I've never owned a Data East game, so my knowledge about them stops once it regards something that's not congruent with William's boardset, and the PPB board was proprietary DE stuff. If I were a betting man, I'd say that it was similar in function to William's Aux Driver Board, and if that's the case, then only components needed for the particular game are populated, and that one transistor that's not the same as the others, has been replaced with a different kind over the years (probably in an effort to fix the same thing you're working on).

This is pretty much the extent of my knowledge though. I do know that DataEast (much like William's) used what was called "switched" solenoids for things like their pop bumpers and sling shots. These were only "half" computer controlled. That is, the computer would activate them in diagnostics for testing, but not in-game. In game, they would be directly controlled by a switch that would close a circuit and tell the solenoid to activate. This was done because they needed instantaneous response. If the switch is stuck closed, the solenoid will lock on (or machine gun). It may be wise to check the switches for solder splash shorts, and proper adjustment as well. Compare it to a pop bumper that appeared to be working. I'm almost certain this is how they work in Time Machine.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 65.00
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
From: $ 19.99
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/noob-time-machine-flippers-and-sound?hl=mbaumle and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.